Amy Winehouse has died

[Andy Y]

Well said BD. I'd like to reiterate that prompt.

[James]

I'm genuinely shocked by some of the responses here.

 

I've known quite a few people who've been involved with drugs; one guy who was a trackmen was a reformed addict. I had huge respect for him the way he'd turned himself around and the remorse he showed for those he'd stolen from to feed his habit. The effects were there for all to see. He said he was always annoyed by those who say it's easy to say no. His point was not only peer (sp?) pressure but then dealers pressurising you on top of your body relying on it. Some of you, judging by the comments, will probably find it hard to understand why I respect him, but I do.

 

Amy Winehouse isn't to everyone's taste (I use the present tense as her music will live on, all the more so now), but I would find it hard to see why people would dismiss her ability. The first time I saw her was when ashe was interviewed on Channel 4 one Sunday morning right at the start of her career. She seemed rather different from the norm then - no bad thing at all mind. Her voice isn't conventional but suited her style of music very well. The Zuton's Valerie has always been a favourite of mine but the Ronson/Winehouse version is pretty good too - I heard an interview with the Zutons where they said when they here Winehouse singing it, it's like it's her own and nothing to do with them. That's quite an acolade of a cover version.

 

The fact that she represented someone following their own influences and tastes rather than a prescribed Cowell career path makes me more interested - anyone who goes against the performing by numbers type which X Factor so often produces is fine by me.

 

One final thing; before some of you judge artists who have used drugs, just bear in mind how much great music has been made by bands under the influence of all sorts of substances...

[trisonic]

I'm not sure that you are actually adding fuel to the fire, James!!

 

I met Jimi Hendrix twice. Both times he was totally lucid, funny, gentle and interesting. He was fascinated in the then ""New Wave" of British SF authors and we discussed them (he liked JG Ballard a lot). He was as far from being the "Wild Man of Pop" as the British newspapers presented him as anyone you can imagine.

 

So, I take a lot with a pinch of salt - as I said before we have no knowledge of how poor Ms. Winehouse actually died.

 

Certainly not to cast the first stone.

 

Best, Pete.

[Steve Williams]

Maybe it's because I have never been a big fan of hers in any way, be it musically or the person, but I can't believe it's a "tragedy" that a 27 year old drug addict died as she lived, (and moreover, when there's many not so high profile youngsters dying in the same vein, despite all the educative materials available at schools across the country since the late eighties), and especially not when a very real, recent tragedy is ongoing: 92 innocent people, gunned down in a merciless fashion in Oslo the day before.

 

 

A dramatic definition of tragedy is when, usually, the main character experiences death, ruin or extreme sorrow as the result of a tragic flaw, moral weakness or inability to cope with unfavourable circumstances. In essence, the downfall is, for whatever reason, unwittingly self-inflicted. I would suggest that, therefore, her death is, indeed, tragic.

[deltic56]

She is not the first and certainley won`t be the last to go this way.

[NGT6 1315]

A dramatic definition of tragedy is when, usually, the main character experiences death, ruin or extreme sorrow as the result of a tragic flaw, moral weakness or inability to cope with unfavourable circumstances. In essence, the downfall is, for whatever reason, unwittingly self-inflicted. I would suggest that, therefore, her death is, indeed, tragic.

 

I am thinking this is a rather good point, Steve.

 

Just in case my previous posting in here may have been ambiguous or contentious in any way, I should like to pick up at this point and re-phrase my earlier statement: What I was meaning to express was that while I, judging from my de-facto living environment, cannot see any logical and rational reason for willingly harming one's own health with the chemical waste which drugs constitute in my opinion, I do think that, sad as it is, we must, for the time being, live with the fact that people may end up in circumstances where such logic, plain as it may be to persons outside those circumstances, is a wee bit more muddled, much as per the definition of tragedy which Steve outlined. I don't think any of us on here will have been sufficiently close to Amy to be aware of just what exactly was going on in her mind, and thus have sufficient information on which to base a sound judgment.

[BlackRat]

Wether its the first fag behind the bike shed, that ultimately (for some) leads to lung cancer or the offer of that first fix..............

 

To understand the tragedy of ANY drugs death (if it is, remember we still await the result of the PM/toxicology) then you need to understand what addiction is.

 

Addiction, simplified just means that without the substance, be it tobacco, heroin or RM Web, it just means you cannot function normally without it.

 

(Take your own caffeine intake for instance.............)

 

Having worked as a plod in an inner City with a high substance misuse rate, and sat on a number of groups involved in sorting the mess out, there's one thing I have learnt,

 

Addiction in its many forms can affect just about anyone.

[45156]

Addiction, simplified just means that without the substance, be it tobacco, heroin or RM Web, it just means you cannot function normally without it.

That just about sums it up, really.

 

I was on a fairly strong codeine based pain killer - Co-codamol 500/30 (prescribed, I hasten to add) for quite a while for the problems with my shoulder, and the advice on using this drug was from the hospital, and it was prescribed by my GP - and it was all too easy to get this churned out on a repeat prescription request - 100 at a time pending review by the hospital specialists. When I broke my hip, the A&E sister gave me initially another dose of the same, and about an hour later, it dawned on them that this particular drug was not working as expected - I had explained to the sister that I was already on Co-codamol, and it then transpired that I have become resistant to the drug, as well as dependent on it - through no fault of my own. In order to achieve pain control, they had to resort to morphine via the IV line, and once on the ward tramadol and oral morphine, but these were under controlled and observed ward conditions. I was not given any Co-codamol, and experienced withdrawal, but this was moderated by the tramadol - my wife said that during the withdrawal period, I looked positively dreadful. I was also weaned off Tramadol after my operation by controlled reduction managed by my GP. So yes, there is always a possibility of addiction, even when the drugs are on prescription (Elvis and Michael Jackson come to mind.

 

So with all that in mind, there are a lot more "addicts" out there that you might imagine - I did not believe that I was one such, but in reality I was.

[the penguin of doom]

I wasn't going to bother posting here. It doesn't kind of sit right with me, but I've read through and decided to "Join the debate"

 

It seems a lot are commenting on the lifestyle issues, (which is fine. It's why we have freedom of speech). If I started commenting my thoughts on "druggies", dealers and the victims of it all, I'd be here all day!

 

I think the point here for me is the "artist" and her work. No one can really dispute if she'd been an unknown, no one would know or care. Thats a fact of life and goes with the fame, (Elvis was the first instance I remember).

 

As for the music..... A year or two back, I used to play in a covers band, "the wedding singer" so to speak. We did a good few covers, some I liked and some I tolerated. We did a couple of Amys songs and I have to say, I really didn't care for any of them. I didn't like any of her other songs either to be honest. That's just my opinion though, but my point is, even though I wasn't keen, when we did them, the dance floor was always full. Presumably, full of the folk who were buying her records and making her famous.

 

If you want a measure of a performers popularity, you could do worse than use this method. I'd be willing to bet that in 20 years time, wedding parties will still be bopping to Valerie.....

 

RIGHT, I'm off back to my modelling addiction..... Railways, not the other type!

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[coachmann]

Being a Celeb is one thing. For me it is the heart rending plight of a young person dying alone.

[BlackRat]

Coach, its quite heart rendering, particularly when each death reflects a hidden story, and some of them are quite literally shocking.

 

if there's one thing the plod has taught me, its never to be judgmental, no matter how easy it is to be.

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

Being a Celeb is one thing. For me it is the heart rending plight of a young person dying alone.

 

So why do they have to be young?

 

Death is a bit like Christmas. One should never be alone for either.

 

We still don't know if Ms Winehouse was actually alone at the time.

 

Although I am not particularly familiar with the lady's music and I certainly never knew her or met her, I think she was very much part of a recurring theme which seems to have built up in that, this sort of 'instant' fame seems to be a recipe for disaster. At the same time, even I knew what Amy Winehouse actually looked like and that make up job was carefully studied and presented and, even when apparently wrecked on toxic substances, was always there.

 

This is brand imaging that she must have participated in. Had she not been interested in her brand image she would not have allowed herself to look that way. My point is that she wanted to be a celeb but perhaps was bereft of sufficient advice or counsel to handle the result.

 

Certainly she turned from being a promising singer with a full engagement diary to a completely unbookable performer. Whether she brought the lifestyle and substance abuse with her to her celebrity status is a moot point.

 

There is an old saying that if you live by the sword you will probably die from it. Thus I have avoided swords of all types. There are harmless addictions such as model railways and yachts which I have freely indulged in.

 

It seems to me that it is recognition of the swords that allows one to steer away from the dangers of addiction to such things. Nevertheless, it has to be pointed out that in sword carrying days it was a matter of great honour and a huge favour bestowed by kings to fall upon ones own sword when all the other options are exhausted and ones life is forfeit.

[S.A.C Martin]

Just to put this forward;

 

Russell Brand on Amy Winehouse

 

I don't share the same view as many of you, (that much is certain) but as far as arguments for the opposition go, Brand's extremely well written article is incredibly thought provoking.

[PhilH]

Excellent, thought provoking article - thanks for finding it Simon.

[Harbottle]

I was never a fan of Winehouse or her music, though it's unfortunate that she's died.

Last saturday I was more affected by the death of Rewilding at Ascot than the loss of Ms Winehouse.

[Natalie]

Working in prison as Reception nurse exposed me to large amounts of drink and drug addicts and totally opened my eyes to the level and depth of the problem. Believe when someone is rattling it is not a pleasant thing to watch. I also had the chance to talk to these people and had my eyes totally opened. As Black Rat says 'never be judgemental' as you never when your own circumstances might change and before you know you find yourself in the same state

[Tim H]

I found out about Amy Winehouse's death by seeing a musician (Rich Harding, lead singer of the band Also Eden) reposting one of my own Facebook status updates from three weeks ago, one I wrote as an angry response to a Guardian music journalist praising her drug-addled state as "Rock and roll".

 

This is what I wrote three weeks ago. I still stand by it.

 

I've frequently berated Guardian music journalists over their cluelessness about music, but garbage like this make me utterly sick. Musicians, whatever their genre of music or level of fame, are first and foremost fellow flesh-and-blood human beings. They're not performing animals or characters in a soap opera. Celebrating self-destructive meltdowns as "rock and roll" is just evil.

 

I've not been a fan of Amy's music, but at least one singer-songwriter I know personally is quite upset over the news of her death. I'll echo what was said earlier up-thread about the leeches and scumbags who surrounded her. Some people need to examine their consciences, assuming they're actually got a conscience to examine.

[EddieB]

Being a Celeb is one thing. For me it is the heart rending plight of a young person dying alone.

 

Well said.

 

It isn't like no one saw this coming.

 

Where were her so-called friends, her parents, the people she worked with? Don't tell me that they weren't aware what harm she was doing to herself.

 

By the accounts of her last "performances" it was evident that she was nearing the bottom of a long downhill slope.

 

She might not have thanked them at the time, but couldn't someone have pulled her out of this mire?

 

Something tells me that there are those who delight in another Brian Jones, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Curt Kobain, Jimi Hendrix - or a Sid and Nancy. A sacrifice that somehow purges the rest of us? Except it doesn't, just a terrible waste of a life.

 

It's not the evident talent she had that matters most, it was the life of a young girl.