Skinnylinny Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Hello all, Having spotted a Peco Wonderful Wagon kit in a model shop for the first time recently, and I was struck by the idea of sprung buffers (I'm planning a shunting plank) and the working leaf springs look like an interesting trick... the only thing is, said wagon in the shop appeared to consist of a large lump of metal around which card sides were wrapped. Now, I've managed to get hold of a chassis-only kit (sprung buffers and suspension included) but wondered if anyone had any idea of how much weighting would be required? If anyone has one of the old kits kicking around and could weigh the lump of metal, that'd be perfect! I've just spotted some unpainted bodyshells for Dapol wagons, too, and am considering seeing how much hacking about those would take to fit the Peco chassis... The second question should be much simpler. I have a Hornby 27xx 0-6-0t, and with its half-open cab, the plain black boiler backhead in the cab is fairly visible. I'd like to lift this with some careful painting, but the bunker gets in the way. It looks, on careful inspection, as if the bunker is a separate moulding, but can anyone tell me how to separate it from the main bodyshell so I can paint the cab? Trying to find the maintenance diagrams on the website only seems to tell me how to dismantle the chassis - not quite what I want! Many thanks, James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The die cast piece to take the chassis components varied in weight, depending on the wagon side height, as did the weight of the completed wagons depending on just how much of them there was. An ounce / 30g is probably typical for the diecast piece, two ounces / 55g enough for the finished vehicles. I was in the habit of taking weight out by only using the base of the casting and glueing on replacement plastic sides. Then Ratio, 3H and Slaters got going with polystyrene wagon kits and I never built another Peco Notso-wonderful wagon again... What is the bearing arrangement these days? Originally Peco supplied a pressed brass bearing cup and rounded end axles, resulting in extremely dull running. If this is still the case switch to pinpoint axle ends and matching coned brass bearings. Try flexing the lcoo body to reveal the joint lines that you believe are present. Then running a fine scalpel blade tip along them may help break any cement, keep flexing until it lets go. All this with the proviso that there is a joint to exploit: you could just be looking at a join in the moulding tool that leaves a witness mark on a one piece moulding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I picked up two Peco WWs years ago. The embossed pre-coloured card overlays were charming. The rubbery plastic used for the solebars, springs and axleboxes, was something else though. Very weird and not quite as flexible as you'd think - the diecast wagon body in both of my samples made sod-all difference to running quality. Also, if you tried to trim it and made a mistake, then it was very hard to glue...... Both are on P4 wheelsets, but the glue I used for the embossed card failed, so the card overlays fell off after a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Thanks for the replies so far. What is the bearing arrangement these days? Originally Peco supplied a pressed brass bearing cup and rounded end axles, resulting in extremely dull running. If this is still the case switch to pinpoint axle ends and matching coned brass bearings. From what I can see, the chassis-only kit (reference R20, by the way) requires wheels, bearings and couplings to complete. My idea was to use pinpoints and brass bearings, that being what was in the example I saw in the model shop, which seemed to run very sweetly. On the other hand, this being my first attempt at such a thing, I can quite clearly see how it would be possible to make a dog's dinner of the chassis. Time to dig out the old engineer's try-square again to make absolutely certain everything is square and level... I'm already starting to have second thoughts, and the parts haven't even left the seller yet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 .....I can quite clearly see how it would be possible to make a dog's dinner of the chassis. Time to dig out the old engineer's try-square again to make absolutely certain everything is square and level... I'm already starting to have second thoughts, and the parts haven't even left the seller yet! They were an early attempt to replicate working springs, and are useful in that historical context. Problem is that the underframe is designed to mate only with Peco's own diecast wagon body, and it may not be possible - note I haven't tried it - to mate it with a modern plastic body due to the protruding dowels, etc. The stamped metal W-irons (in which the springs and axleboxes slide) are also generic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The embossed pre-coloured card overlays were charming. but the glue I used for the embossed card failed, so the card overlays fell off after a while. They are indeed charming, I used some sides recently mated to a styrene body and chassis, brake gear from the spares box, etched w-irons and brake lever, and cast buffers; Not entirely sure if the result justified the effort though. Rokit Card Glue works well to attach card to plastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 If you're just planning to use the underframe then I wouldn't bother. While the buffers almost worked the "sprung" axleboxes were worse than useless. There are so many better systems around nowadays – the world has moved on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The axlebox springs are fairly useless as the material is too stiff. I have experimented with cutting the tie at the top, but without great success. Peco supply nylon bearings, which slide into the axleboxes to take a normal pin point 26mm axle. Running is then free and smooth. The buffer springs tend to stick due to flash. I think the latest ones have a nasty plastic buffer head, which doesn't help. Fitting to a body involves drilling holes for the pegs (they used to supply a template) and then bending over the metal tags on the W irons and melting the end of the pegs over with a soldering iron. Easy enough with the mazak casting but care is required with plastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 SWMBO being out, I have ben able to sneak into the kitchen with a Wonderful Wagon and stuck it on the scales - 43g. (Complete 7 plank wagon fitted with 3 link couplings and plastic wheels with metal axles). According to the NMRA this is about 15g too light, but they always seem to be OK. The overlays are nicely printed (the 'Baddesley' one I weighed is especially attractive with green shaded lettering) but, to my eye, the embossed detail is not very crisp. They were a great advance on the flat litho and tinplate wagons, which were current when they first appeared in 1954, of course. (Wagons from the early series can be identified by their plywood body and printed solebar detail fixed to the mazak floor. Later ones had a body casting, with plastic extensions for the 7 plank wagons and the vans) IIRC the bunker of the 27xx is a separate moulding that clips into the rear of the body. There are 4 mouldings altogether (plus the various details) :- lower tanks and footplate, tank top, cab roof and bunker. I'll check, if mine is easily accessible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 Again, thanks to everyone for the replies and advice. If the wagon doesn't work out to be very good, I'll not be too surprised, it was more a sense of curiosity that led me to purchase it. Incidentally, to clarify, yes, it is just the chassis I've bought, hence the question about weighting. Besides, a wagon with "working suspension" has a bit more of a "wow factor" to show non-modelling friends, even if, in the long run, it doesn't get run much, and I certainly don't have the skill with soldering iron required to make a decent job of an etched-brass compensation unit. Just the sight of a sheet of brass etch kind of scares me - I like working with plastic! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Again, thanks to everyone for the replies and advice. If the wagon doesn't work out to be very good, I'll not be too surprised, it was more a sense of curiosity that led me to purchase it. Incidentally, to clarify, yes, it is just the chassis I've bought, hence the question about weighting. Besides, a wagon with "working suspension" has a bit more of a "wow factor" to show non-modelling friends, even if, in the long run, it doesn't get run much, and I certainly don't have the skill with soldering iron required to make a decent job of an etched-brass compensation unit. Just the sight of a sheet of brass etch kind of scares me - I like working with plastic! I don't think you'll get much of a 'wow' factor from Peco suspension. Normally the axlebox moves up when pushed... and stays up. Don't dismiss the modern sprung suspensions units (Exactoscale or Bill Bedford) – mostly they are simple fold up units that do not need soldering. What's more they actually work. That's what I call a WOW factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 While I would agree that the odd one is prone to stick (due to flash, which is difficult to remove), Peco axlebox springs do usually work, they're just too stiff to allow the wheels to follow track irregularities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I found this on the 27xx http://www.gwr.org.uk/pro2721.html Unfortunately fitting the Bachmann chassis (which has the correct wheelbase) shows up the Hornby body (which hasn't - it's not even correct for the LMS 3F it's intended for!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 I found this on the 27xx http://www.gwr.org.uk/pro2721.html Unfortunately fitting the Bachmann chassis (which has the correct wheelbase) shows up the Hornby body (which hasn't - it's not even correct for the LMS 3F it's intended for!) That's perfect, thanks - I'd seen that article before in my research, must have missed the step that included unclipping the bunker... Still, now I have a painted cab interior that looks much better. Thank you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.