Tase Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hi guys, I'm looking at purchasing some modern image colour light signals and am interested in the ones from CR Signals and Traintronics. I wish to control the signals through DCC in the future although at the moment they will be powered via a regular transformer ie non-DCC. I know the Traintronics ones are DCC ready and that I would need to add an accessory decoder in order to make them fully DCC, although they are my second choice as I am not too keen on the lights fading in/out as the period I am modelling would mean that the signals would have been the modern LED lit type and not filament bulbs! However, the CR ones I understand are configured as common cathode which enables them to be connected into various DCC accessory decoders. They also offer a common anode version which allows connection into manufacturers decoders which specify common positive signals. Excuse my ignorance but what exactly does all that mean? Also, what is the difference between 'DCC accessory decoders' and 'manufacturers decoders?' I only want to purchase signals once so I want to make the right decision now in order to avoid complications/regrets later! Thanks in advance! T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Common anode means that the positive side of all the LEDs is connected together, so for manual operation you use a DC supply and put your switches or whatever between the negative side of the signal and the negative side of the supply. As far as I'm aware this is the version to use with DCC decoders. Common cathode is the other way round where you switch the positive and all the negatives are wired together. There's a circuit diagram here, which applies to a seven-segment display but is the same for individual LEDs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWSlack Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 What scale, please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Singpoint Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 What scale, please? A quick googly suggests they only do 4mm. F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tase Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 What scale, please? Sorry, OO gauge. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZippyHG Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hi, Have run this past Andy before making this post so should be ok. I am about to make availabe custom built signals, for 4mm/oo. Please see picture below for some examples of what i have made. They are all made to order and can be wired in any way you like. They can be 2/3/4 aspect, multiple junction indicators, call on and shunts, both original red/white and red/red types. If you would like to know more please drop me a PM. Paul(zippyhg) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Hi, Have run this past Andy before making this post so should be ok. I am about to make availabe custom built signals, for 4mm/oo. Please see picture below for some examples of what i have made. They are all made to order and can be wired in any way you like. They can be 2/3/4 aspect, multiple junction indicators, call on and shunts, both original red/white and red/red types..... Looks tempting - the use of "water clear" LEDs is the way to go. How do you deal with "light bleed"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZippyHG Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 They are mounted within tubes which have been milled to make the hoods. All the ones above are for my club layout Horton. I have used the layout to develop the signals to the point where I can offer them to anyone interested. Hope to post some more pics of shunts and call on later. Zippyhg. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon H Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Looks tempting - the use of "water clear" LEDs is the way to go. Especially if you use a blue-green (cyan) type for the green aspect. Something like this one from Farnell: http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/mcl034bgc/led-3mm-32-ultra-blu-grn/dp/1581173 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tase Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 Paul, Are you able to post some pictures of the back of the signal heads and, also the call on signals please? Also, what kind of prices are you looking to charge for the signals? Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Especially if you use a blue-green (cyan) type for the green aspect. Something like this one from Farnell: http://uk.farnell.co...-grn/dp/1581173 Maplin do something similar, made by Agilent. If you've got a branch near your home / workplace, might be quicker to go there than wait for CPC Farnell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
signaller Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Especially if you use a blue-green (cyan) type for the green aspect. Something like this one from Farnell: http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/mcl034bgc/led-3mm-32-ultra-blu-grn/dp/1581173 The green used on colour light signals is not CYAN. A blue tint to the green is a good idea but don't go too far! Always check the wavelength. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueeighties Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Would be interested in some prices for these signals as well please Regards, Lee. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZippyHG Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Just a few more photos of some signals, lit this time! And one of the back as requested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon H Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 The green used on colour light signals is not CYAN. A blue tint to the green is a good idea but don't go too far! Always check the wavelength. What wavelength should be used for the green aspect? I seem to recall asking this question (I think) here some months, probably years ago now and no definitive answer was forthcoming. Either way, the 'blu-ish/green' type of LED seems much closer to the real thing than any of the standard green LEDs which tend to be supplied with commercial signals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted August 12, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 12, 2011 What wavelength should be used for the green aspect? I seem to recall asking this question (I think) here some months, probably years ago now and no definitive answer was forthcoming. Either way, the 'blu-ish/green' type of LED seems much closer to the real thing than any of the standard green LEDs which tend to be supplied with commercial signals. Looking through my Lee filters swatch (I work in lighting these days...) I think the colour is very similar to 116 Medium Blue Green see http://www.leefilters.com/lighting/products/colours/ref:C4630710C55187/ which has a principal wavelength of 500nm Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
signaller Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 What wavelength should be used for the green aspect? I seem to recall asking this question (I think) here some months, probably years ago now and no definitive answer was forthcoming. Either way, the 'blu-ish/green' type of LED seems much closer to the real thing than any of the standard green LEDs which tend to be supplied with commercial signals. I have no idea the wavelength the prototype uses, maybe someone on here knows. However a smaller light source may not mimic the prototype. I have always used "Pure Green" led's in my signals with a wavelength of between 555 and 570. So called green led's can be around 525 or less but these have a distinct yellow tint. These have the advantage of being very cheap but not suitable for this use and is false economy. I always use high quality led's in my signals. Cyan has a wavelength of around 505. Of course ambient light can affect the signals, I remember well at the NEC show which used bright orange neon type lighting, caused all my signals to look very wrong! All the best Roger Murray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
signaller Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 This may help........ http://www.oksolar.com/led/led_color_chart.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
signaller Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 One more thing I have just thought of, I am no scientist but I was once told that Light Colours, Filter Colours and Paint Colours do not mix in the same way. does that make it better or worse? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted August 12, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 12, 2011 One more thing I have just thought of, I am no scientist but I was once told that Light Colours, Filter Colours and Paint Colours do not mix in the same way. does that make it better or worse? You are correct in that. My comment about filters is from my own research over several years of playing with lighting rigs and trying to find the colour that closest matched to what I remember of my days on the footplate of the green of railway signals. 116 was the closest I found. In rock and roll lighting, as in railway signals, we are placing a colour filter over the front of a 'white' incandescant lamp... Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
signaller Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 You are correct in that. My comment about filters is from my own research over several years of playing with lighting rigs and trying to find the colour that closest matched to what I remember of my days on the footplate of the green of railway signals. 116 was the closest I found. In rock and roll lighting, as in railway signals, we are placing a colour filter over the front of a 'white' incandescant lamp... Andi Hi Andi, yes, in the old days the light source was yellow be it an oil lamp or a bulb. The signal lens was pretty near pure blue which gave a green light. If you put a blue filter in front of a yellow led very little happens and it shows no hint of green. I am told this is because the light from led's is very pure and at an exact wavelength, where as the light from a lamp or bulb contains a large spectrum. I am digging a hole here so will stop.................. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
signaller Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Perhaps these would be easier, no fiddley hoods to make.... http://www.vmslimited.co.uk/rail.html#lightweight Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon H Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I have no idea the wavelength the prototype uses, maybe someone on here knows. However a smaller light source may not mimic the prototype. I have always used "Pure Green" led's in my signals with a wavelength of between 555 and 570. So called green led's can be around 525 or less but these have a distinct yellow tint. These have the advantage of being very cheap but not suitable for this use and is false economy. I always use high quality led's in my signals. Cyan has a wavelength of around 505. Some further investigation has revealed that the Railway Group Standards specify that the colours defined in BS1376 should be used, and these appear to be based on chromaticity co-ordinates rather than specific wavelengths. However, some data found at the Marl website regarding LED signal lamps they supply to LUL indicates that the dominant wavelength for the green version is 500nm, so very much in the Cyan region it seems. The datasheet itself can be found here: http://www.leds.co.uk/pdfs/SPL8107.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted August 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2011 <snip> the dominant wavelength for the green version is 500nm, <snip> the colour is very similar to 116 Medium Blue Green...... principal wavelength of 500nm If you want to know a colour, ask a lampy Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
signaller Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Some further investigation has revealed that the Railway Group Standards specify that the colours defined in BS1376 should be used, and these appear to be based on chromaticity co-ordinates rather than specific wavelengths. However, some data found at the Marl website regarding LED signal lamps they supply to LUL indicates that the dominant wavelength for the green version is 500nm, so very much in the Cyan region it seems. The datasheet itself can be found here: http://www.leds.co.uk/pdfs/SPL8107.pdf Most interesting, however if you test led's of those wavelengths it is a different story. Cyan is used on Nato Aircraft Carriers for the deck perimeter lights and I am sure they wouldn't want green! I shall continue to use 555 for the green cause it looks right. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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