lyneux Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 What an interesting prototype... always nice to see people scratch building wagons! I really like your use of wood to provide a solid frame for the wagon. I'm not sure I'd be able to cut the wood accurately enough to do something similar myself. Will be following along so please keep posting photos! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trains12 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Hi Kev As stated in my pm to you to date have not been able to find the wagon drawings but have found the carrier drawings for the EXL4 flask. Have also found my 3 models of the EXL4's that i started in 1990. At this time the flasks only had shock absorbers on the lid end and this is how have modelled them. Never got around to finishing them and putting the rest of the details on them. I did make 3 carriers in plastikard but these went missing in the move to Wales. The actual wagons never got around to making them. The EXL4 were used from Ramsden Dock in Barrow in Furness up to Windscale. From early 70's to late 90's never saw a train mixed with EXL4/magnox flasks. Have never seen the PIA/PXA used for magnox flask but am not saying it didn't happen. If you want dimensions for carriers let me know. Will keep looking for the drawings. Cheers Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Very nice Peter, it's a shame you didn't get around to finishing them! For those who haven't a clue what these are, here is a photo of the prototype on its cradle - As you can see, Pete's made a very good job! Also showing up well in this photo are the various valves mentioned recently. kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Was these the ones that ran around with a coach for the MP`s due to them being from the sub`s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 No cheesy, thats a different wagon/flask combo again. The police round here don't take too kindly to you taking photo's of those at all!!!! kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardog73 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 that why where i use to live was so good to take pic of flask wagon lol i'll see if i still have some Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Hello all, cheesy the ones that your thinking about are for a different kind of nuclear fuel, one type in the wrong hands would be BAD but the other type would be VERY VERY BAD. Please don't as why, as I don't think that Kev or myself can really answer the question on an open forum, or in a PM due to the O.S.A. sec.1. Kev, not sure what all the valves are for, but some of them could be for releasing (dropping) the air or vacuum in the wagon brakes so that it could be shunted without having to have all the air or vacuum brakes working, This would only be in the loading/unloading yards and not on the main lines. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Air only Ozzy! Also prominently marked ''not to be loose shunted'' so is that loose as in not actually coupled or loose as in no brakes but coupled? Anyway, onwards and upwards, the sub-bogie assembly. Now at this point I'm back to wood again, (sort of) but other materials are available! Firstly I cut two pieces of 4mm plywood 79mm x 15mm. These were edged both sides with 79mm x 4mm x 10 thou plastic sheet and then glued with contact adhesive to two pieces of 30 thou plastic sheet cut to this drawing - You should end up with something looking like these (but see later posts!)- These have also had two pieces 28mm x 5mm x 10 thou added to the ''inner'' ends. That's all for now, thanks for looking, kev. edit- drawing changed to later version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Now the only trouble with this going back to visit an old model malarkey is you spot all the mistakes you made last time! I’ve found a couple; firstly I didn’t fit the bearing between the main well body and the sub-bogie assembly. Now I’ve looked at adding this to the first three but it would raise the gap between the well and the track and look ‘’naff’’ so I think I’ll ignore this one! Secondly I’ve spotted a difference between the R/H and L/H sub-bogie assemblies. On this one, the L/H one, note the ‘’solid’’ plated end on the first cross member behind the bufferbeam. On the R/H sub-assembly, the end and the top on the same cross member is open! Now I don’t know if this is the same on both sides, i.e., both sub-assemblies are the same or if it’s like this on one end only, or what the difference is for! My collection of photos are proving inconclusive. Has anybody got a photo of this end with a solid crossmember? Thanks for your time. Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 On this one, the L/H one, note the ‘’solid’’ plated end on the first cross member behind the bufferbeam. On the R/H sub-assembly, the end and the top on the same cross member is open! Now I don’t know if this is the same on both sides, i.e., both sub-assemblies are the same or if it’s like this on one end only, or what the difference is for! My collection of photos are proving inconclusive. Has anybody got a photo of this end with a solid crossmember? Thanks for your time. Kev. Hi Kev. This is the 'UIC' Label Holder and would be on the diagonally opposite corner of the other Bogie carring Frame too ......... See attached from a Long Marston Visist . HTH Mike C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Fantastic mike, even if it does mean I've stuffed up on the first three!!!!!! kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Air only Ozzy! Also prominently marked ''not to be loose shunted'' so is that loose as in not actually coupled or loose as in no brakes but coupled? Hello Kev, in this case not to be loose shunted, means not coupled to a loco, the wagon can be shunted with no brakes. But I don't think that this would happen if the wagon had a flask on it. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
new puritan Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 A closer view ... Label clips should be positioned as near as possible over the centre of the left hand wheel when facing the wagon. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 You guys are spoiling me now! Thanks Mark. If nothing else this thread looks like ending up as a good source of photo's of these wagons! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Hello all. Now that more information has come to light, thanks all, I've gone back and replaced the earlier sub-frame drawing and modified the model ones to this - As you can see the bufferbeams have also been added, from 30 thou plastic sheet, 28mm x 5mm. Both sub-frames have also been marked up underneath for holes to be pre-drilled, before more bits of plastic appear and get in the way! The middle hole is for fixing to/pivoting on, the main body. The other two are stopped short for attaching the bogies to the sub-frames. The hole centers are to these sizes - Not much will get done now for the next couple of weeks, as I've got to get Loch Dour ready for Kendal show at the end of January! Thanks for looking, kev Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 This is the drawing I cobbled together - But a better one has now been brought to my attention, see later posts. kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 Yes its Saturday and time for an update again! From this point on please note that this model is still mostly a copy of the previous three, and is not done to the new drawing above. And things are about to get fiddly! First, 16 pieces of 20 thou plastic card (in this case in white so you can see them!) were cut 6mm x 4mm and glued across the subframes. This doesn't include the second pair from the back in this photo - These were cut from 30 thou as they form a ''chunkier'' I-beam later. The buffer beams, nearest the camera in the photo above, were capped at the ends with four pieces of 10 thou. Plus the document holders were added, also from 10 thou to one side only, to the left when the wagon is viewed from the side - Notice also the rear pair of cross members are angled from the full width of 28mm to 25mm (estimated as always in this build!) I should have cleaned them both up better before the photo's were taken shouldn't I. More later, kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Starting to come together Kev. But why not build three new ones? Coat on and OzzyO has left the building. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Closely followed by my boot! I think one more will be enough for now, as I like to run my 310 unit in the same fiddle yard road! Mind you, Trains12 is talking about building the other three! So if we both live long enough to finish them, the whole fleet may make a run around Coppell one day. kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted February 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2012 As I recall some statements about not talking about MOD wagons in this thread due to the Official Secrets Act section 1 I find it odd that a drawing has been effectively published. Where do you get that information from? Section 1 of the OSA doesn't seem particularly relevant at all unless you are implying that someone who is party to the OSA has released the drawing. Furthermore let's not over exaggerate when it comes to matters like this - there are drawings and models available of all sorts of MOD property. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Feel free to post a list of key dimensions Argus, no drawing required. It all helps people to make a better model than me! Oh well, back on with the model, your safe with wood and plastic!. kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Merely quoting from post 32 above, I have not read the OSA since I left the employment of the MOD some considerable time ago. I was not talking so much about the wagon but about the wagon load. That reply was a follow on to Kev's mess 30, where he mentioned about the police around here not liking you taking photos of some wagon flask combinations. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 That would be obvious by the closed dock roads and the number of police and armed soldiers crawling over town Argus! The empties don't attract as much attention. , kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 'argus', on 25 Feb 2012 - 14:40, said: I didn't think I had input anything as such but it seems clear that nobody has mentioned the Barrowmore MRG scans. If you would care to visit their site and find the international wagon pdf's, book 3 drawing E474 (3 versions) contains the information you require although I am not sure the international numbers are correct. Bingo! Do what that man says!!!!!! Cheers Argus, I can bin my crap drawing As for the numbers, your not the only one that's confused. The original batch, built at Ashford in 1977 in my books were 70 0998 000 -005 (PIA) later 95600 - 605 (PXA). There is also another batch built at Ashford in 1982, 70 9986 006-008 (again PIA). Both batches appear to be identical and worked together to/from our docks in mixed rakes with both codes in the 90's! Were the second batch removed from international traffic and renumbered too? kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Back to the model! More work, but not a lot, on the subframes - The one on the left has had two rectangles of 10 thou plastic sheet added, one 29mm x 8mm, the other 28mm x 8mm (at the front). The one on the right has then had two pieces 16mm x 8mm x 50thou added to the centre of these to form the ''bearing'' surfaces for the bogies proper. These may have to be adjusted once the bogies are built however! Two small pieces of 20 thou, 7mm x 4mm then form the base of the I-beam. These could go through as one piece but I do it this way so as to clear the fixing screws onto the main body. I've got a lot more done on these but no photo's yet so that can wait until the next installment. Thanks for looking, kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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