RMweb Gold sjp23480 Posted March 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2015 Aha! Great thanks Ray! Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourthsVeil Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Ray is right. And when they say CORE, they mean the Herzstück, which in fact is the FROG. Armin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjp23480 Posted April 5, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2015 Thanks Armin, So, I have bought a load of Roco Geoline points. I presume the blue and yellow wires from the point motors go into the sockets in the sleepers that then link to the rails and the frog? Thanks again, Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadbent Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I've just bought point motor to try out before replacing my SEEP motors, but it seems to only work one way! I've wired up the motor as I would a SEEP. The two brown wires go to either side of my dpdt switch. The red wire goes to the common. The voltage is 12V DC but I also have a CDU. So a couple of questions- The speed of the motor seems to be pretty instantaneous. Is this correct? I can physically move the motor, but it only switches one way, whatever side of the switch is connected to it. How do I return the motor? Thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
66C Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I've just bought point motor to try out before replacing my SEEP motors, but it seems to only work one way! I've wired up the motor as I would a SEEP. The two brown wires go to either side of my dpdt switch. The red wire goes to the common. The voltage is 12V DC but I also have a CDU. So a couple of questions- The speed of the motor seems to be pretty instantaneous. Is this correct? I can physically move the motor, but it only switches one way, whatever side of the switch is connected to it. How do I return the motor? Thanks in advance First of all - DO NOT connect the Conrad motor to a capacitor discharge unit. There are 3 methods I know of for wiring them: Method 1 - as shown in the instructions using an AC supply - works fine but you need three wires to each motor - one of which is the common return (the red wire). Method 2 - as shown in the illustration below using a DC supply - works fine - you need 2 wires to each motor BUT you CANNOT use a common return. Method 3 - This uses "steering diodes" as described by Circuitron on their website for Tortoise motors. For this an AC supply is used - one side is split using single diodes to give half wave +ve and -ve - the other side is the common return. The half wave is supplied to the outside terminals on a SPDT switch and the centre terminal is connected to the point motor - see below. In the illustration above the black wire is the common return. The small blue wire is the operating wire from the SPDT switch. Note that the two diodes from the Conrad motor are wired together - these are the "steering" diodes. With this method you need two wires to each motor - one of which is the common return. This method is the most economic for wiring. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadbent Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Thanks. I disconnected CDU and it now works, but I have no idea why as I am not an electrical engineer. I wired it just as before and using a common return - ie red wire to common return. It moves pretty well instantaneously. Can I slow it down? I haven't tested the polarity switching. I hope it is a lot more reliable than the clumsy seep motor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted June 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 15, 2015 A CDU outputs DC whereas the Conrad motors require AC to function. You can't use a CDU because the Conrad motors draw current for a longer period than a SEEP or other solenoid type point motor and a CDU is designed to effectively supply just a (big) pulse of power to operate the solenoid style motors. A colleague of mine says that he has slowed his Conrad motors down by reducing the power supply's voltage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
66C Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 A CDU outputs DC whereas the Conrad motors require AC to function. You can't use a CDU because the Conrad motors draw current for a longer period than a SEEP or other solenoid type point motor and a CDU is designed to effectively supply just a (big) pulse of power to operate the solenoid style motors. A colleague of mine says that he has slowed his Conrad motors down by reducing the power supply's voltage. Please note that the Conrad units contain a DC motor - the diodes supplied effectively convert the AC to half-wave. An AC supply is ONE option for power. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted June 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 15, 2015 Apologies, I was trying to keep my response at a basic level and thought that the reference to AC was a little simpler for some to understand than comments about diodes/reversing the polarity of a DC supply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadbent Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Thanks for your replies. I am supplying (so I think) 12v DC via a transformer. I added the CDU for my seep motors to give them an added boost. In fact the points work without it if they are somewhat more noisy. To slow the motors are you suggesting putting in a resistor? I am also confused about what I have read about these motors. I use Peco electrofrog points. Should I remove the spring? Does the motor lock in its final position or does it draw current all the time? I have tried the polarity switch and it works nicely - far better than seep motors which I now have gone off. The thought of replacing them all keeps me awake at night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
66C Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I am also confused about what I have read about these motors. I use Peco electrofrog points. Should I remove the spring? Does the motor lock in its final position or does it draw current all the time? I have tried the polarity switch and it works nicely - far better than seep motors which I now have gone off. The thought of replacing them all keeps me awake at night. You could use a resistor to reduce the voltage but you would need to measure the current draw and do a little calculation using Ohm's Law. The motors already contain two resistors to limit the current draw. You may find that by reducing the voltage there is not enough momentum to overcome a Peco spring. If the Peco points throw over OK with the spring in place then leave well alone. Sometimes they need stiffer (heavier) wire than that supplied to overcome the spring - piano wire from a modelling shop. The Conrad motor has cut-out switches at each end of its travel - so no current consumed once it has thrown over. If it "chatters" it means that the throw needs a little adjustment - this is easily done by moving (pivoting) the operating wire in the opposite direction to that just thrown - the little "lever" on the wire holder helps with this. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadbent Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 huge thanks to everyone. I hope I didn't take over this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadbent Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Postscript. It took me a while to work out the cross-over on the switch, but now it all works nicely. But I have a question. I have been using an old Hornby DC controller, which I normally use to control lighting. What is the best and cheapest way of providing a DC supply which can be adjusted in order to adjust the speed of the switch? Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium eldavo Posted June 18, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 18, 2015 Lots of cheap options on eBay. You could use an adjustable wall wartbtype thing such as: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-1-AMP-POWER-SUPPLY-3v-4-5v-5v-6v-7-5v-9v-12v-variable-voltage-adapter-12va-/231589518967?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item35ebcf9e77 Or power from your fixed 12v supply with an adjustable step down module such as: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5pcs-LM2596S-DC-DC-Buck-Converter-Adjustable-Power-Supply-Step-Down-Module-UK-/141210161794?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item20e0c81282 No affiliation with any of these suppliers. Just making suggestions. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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