Conrad point motor wiring

[Katier]

Hi All,

 

Just got my first set of Conrad point motors. Currently the only supply I have available is 12v DC, will this suffice.

 

The Manual says 16vAC BUT I notice the inputs are dioded. Therefore if I remember my electronics what is actually feeding the point motor is half wave, unrectified DC in effect.

 

i.e. I assume the motor inside is DC?

 

For those not familiar this is the motor :-

 

http://shop.conrad-u...ies/219998.html

 

and I understand internally it's essentially the same as :-

 

http://finneyandsmit...ith/hoffman.htm

 

Kat

[Crosland]

Hi All,

 

Just got my first set of Conrad point motors. Currently the only supply I have available is 12v DC, will this suffice.

 

The Manual says 16vAC BUT I notice the inputs are dioded. Therefore if I remember my electronics what is actually feeding the point motor is half wave, unrectified DC in effect.

 

i.e. I assume the motor inside is DC?

To run them on DC you need a DPDT switch to reverse the polarity to both motor wires, instead of a SPDT switch in one wire for AC.

 

The only thing to note is that when used on DC the motor will be driven all the time instead of each half cycle so the power dissipation when stalled may be higher depending on the voltage used.

 

Andrew Crosland

[Katier]

Yeah I was walking around town and realised why they used AC. Will 1A be sufficient for the PSU?

[eldavo]

My experience of the Conrad motors is that they are real power hogs when running on 16vAC. A 1 amp 16vAC power supply will throw one Conrad motor reliably. If you want to switch 2 simultaneously for a crossover then you will need upwards of 2 amps!

 

I have wired all mine to use 12v DC and they switch much more effectively and in multiples using a 1amp(ish) supply. Just wire together the two leads with the diodes and then switch the polarity of the 12v across this and the red wire exactly as you would with a Tortoise.

 

I don't think the stall current is an issue as they positively turn off the power to the motor at the end of the throw. Just make sure the motor can fully throw.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Katier]

Thanks Dave,

 

I actually went out and got a 16v transformer but it wasn't much and do have a 12v 1A available too. Only installed two at the moment, although one isn't throwing fully at the moment. It can't quite bend the thick wire enough and the thin is too thin. I'm thinking of remounting it with some packing thus giving more distance between the motor and point which should allow the thick wire to bend more.

 

Note currently I'm just powering them temporarily - I havn't installed any wiring to the layout yet, so wiring for 12V won't be an issue.

[fursty]

Hi Katier

 

Was just wandering how the Conrad point motors were behaving, when I followed the link you put into your first post the reviews on their site were mixed with regard to build quality and the actual reliability of the accessory switches being poor in one instance and then only praise from other reviews.

I suppose at this cost I should just get a couple to try them for myself but if you would give a quick up date i'd be grateful.

 

Best wishes

 

Martin

[Katier]

While some are installed the layout, currently, is some way off being an operational entity.

 

They seem to work well enough in testing although they do need a bit of care to get a full throw ( i.e. the right strength of switching wire) or the motor will buzz. I found the default wires seem ok ( I use the thick ) and if I hit a point I can't get to throw cleanly then I can mount the switch on a bit of packing. In doing so the wire effectively becomes more flexible (due to being a longer lever) and thus usually switches fine.

[packetlos]

I am very interested in these as I will need around 40 for my planned layout so tortoise etc would be very expensive, these seem like a bargain and a better alternative to seep. Looks like running on DC is the better option and have read somewhere they can be operated more slowly by dropping the voltage.

[retbsignalman]

 

Hi!

 

I've just bought some of these Conrad point motors and I intend using 12vDC to power them (this allows a common motor drive voltage to be run from a transformer and cuts down on wire runs).

 

Having read the previous posts about using a DPDT switch to operate them in a similar fashion to Tortoise motors, am I having a brain f@rt here? There are three wires, two red and one brown. I so far get that the diodes attached to the red wires are for AC applications and should be removed (?) for DC power.

 

The bit I don't get is the three wires......how does that relate to a DPDT switch 'in the same way as Tortioise motors'? I understand fully the wiring for Tortii with two wires, but three? HELP!!!

 

All suggestions gratefully received. Wiring diagrams more so!

 

Thank you in advance!

 

Graeme

[eldavo]

You don't need to remove the diodes. Simply connect together the ends of the two wires with diodes effectively giving you a red wire with lumps in and a brown wire. Wire these exactly as you would a Tortoise i.e. reversing the voltage across them. The Conrad will then work as DC motor (which it is inside) but better on 12volts than on 16volts AC.

 

Cheers

Dave

[retbsignalman]

Hi!

 

Thank you!! So simple really, but not so obvious!

 

I can see a use for a few more of these, possibly to work semaphore signals through a crank to reduce the throw....experiments to follow!

 

Cheers and a Merry Christmas!!

 

Graeme

[Ray H]

A colleague of mine is running a pair of these motors off one switch to work a crossover. He says that he has had to modify the internal wiring of one so that the motors where the motors are fixed to the baseboard facing in opposite directions. Although he says the modification is easy - I think he said he reversed the connections internally, it strikes me as something that shouldn't be necessary and, presumably, would have been mentioned somewhere on the Internet if it was.

 

I can't swear to it but I think he may be running them off a dc supply and, possibly, at a reduced voltage to reduce the speed of operation. I tried one that I bought for a friend (and is now with the friend) and managed to get it to operate on a 5v dc supply.

 

I'm about to install some of these motors on the colleague's layout and hadn't any plans to muck about with the internal wiring. Should I be thinking that I will need to?

[eldavo]

Can't see why you would need to modify anything inside. I've used them on DC and rigged them in pairs for crossovers and all you need to do is reverse the external connection on one motor exactly as you would for a Tortoise or the like.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Ray H]

His actions did puzzle me. I'll have to query his reason the next time I see him.

[davegreenly]

Conrad point motors appear in the on line photos with or withoutl two wires either side of the stop button .

Are these functional are is it simply a convenient way of delivering two thicknesses of activating wire?

I have literally inherited some of these motors and would lie to try them, given the good price!

Thanks

 

Dave Greenly

[Ray H]

The two wires (rods) are what Conrad suggest is used to move the point - one wire is thicker/stiffer than the other and you takes your pick.

 

We've found that even with the thicker wire/rod and only a thin plywood baseboard, that said wire isn't thick enough and we have used piano wire instead.

 

In truth the problem is probably with the means by which the said wire/rod is fixed to the motor's actuating arm; the (screw) fixing doesn't seem too robust and therefore doesn't grip the wire/rod firmly enough allowing it to flex or even move slightly.

[davegreenly]

The two wires (rods) are what Conrad suggest is used to move the point - one wire is thicker/stiffer than the other and you takes your pick.

 

We've found that even with the thicker wire/rod and only a thin plywood baseboard, that said wire isn't thick enough and we have used piano wire instead.

 

In truth the problem is probably with the means by which the said wire/rod is fixed to the motor's actuating arm; the (screw) fixing doesn't seem too robust and therefore doesn't grip the wire/rod firmly enough allowing it to flex or even move slightly.

Yes, thanks. The wiresdo seem a bit weak.

 

Most of the motors have a quite thick wiresoldered into the headslot of the screw which is araldited into the plastic bracket.

[Ray H]

I'd be hesitant about gluing a screw into position as this will impact if the motor needs changing - we've already had to swap two of ours.

[eldavo]

The way I got the little blighters to work was to make a 'U' shaped bend in the actuator wire so that it wraps round the screw. Get it adjusted then tighten things up and lock it with a tiny spot of cynoacrylate (super) glue. If you need to change/remove the superglue will crackn away without damaging any of the other bits.

 

The supplied wire can be used with Peco points if you remove the over centre spring from the turnout otherwise it's usually too flexible.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Ray H]

His actions did puzzle me. I'll have to query his reason the next time I see him.

We've finally spent much of the last two club meetings sorting out the point operation. We've managed to strip a couple of the threads in the hole used by the screw that secures the actuator wire. Luckily we have a few spares and have changed the motors over although in one case we've drilled the hole right through and replaced the screw with a nut and bolt.

 

I have now discovered the same problem as my colleague whereby the motors fitted to a pair of crossover points continuously chatter if the point motors can't be correctly orientated to get the points of the crossover compatibly set. The problems goes away if one motor is turned around. The two motors are wired in parallel.

 

It doesn't appear to be possible to just reverse the in-line diodes because the internal limit (of travel) switches isolate the new "live" wire. Presumably both the diodes and the limit switch wiring needs reversing or do I simply transpose the activation switch connections and just alter the internal limit switch wiring?

 

Or am I barking up the wrong tree.

[Mallard60022]

So, what's the verdict on these compared to say SEEP for a fiddler yard? Don't care about noise on the yard. I shall use something else on the scenic parts (Tortoise?)

[Ray H]

We found that we had to use a larger diameter wire to that supplied with the motors when mounting under the baseboard and leaving the over centre spring in place.

 

We've also had problems with the screw that secures the wire to the arm where we've over-tightened a few.

 

We'll reserve final judgement for the time being but the ones on our layout have settled down albeit they haven't seen much use.

 

They also seem happier with a bit more power, especially if working a pair as a crossover.

 

And yes, the internal wiring does need changing if the physical orientation of the motors can't be arranged to get both motors to pull the same way.

[trainman67]

Hi folks

I have tortoise tilling and conrad  they will work with the mods mentioned above,as  for the conrads and tortoise motors i run them  032" piano wire and made a brass holder that use's the same screw that you attach the wire to with a hole drilled to suit the piano wire and drilled and tapped 10 ba brass to allow you to ajust  the wire I also run them on half wave ac and single change over switch.

My track is pilz tilling with no over center spring also home made code 80 rail copperclad sleepers the way i fit them is set your point central with 2 pieces of copper clad or plastic card the fit the 032" wire longer than you need feed the wire through the board and point I forgot to mention first centralise the poit motor before offering up to the board

When moving the point leaver with out power DO IT WITH EXTREAME

[sjp23480]

I have an additional question on the Conrad motors.

 

Can anyone advise on the purpose of the yellow wire? The instructions say this goes to the "core" but I am a bit lost as to what this means?

 

Thanks,

Stephen

[Ray H]

There are six wires in total. Unfortunately I don't have a motor to hand to confirm the colours.

 

There are two wire, brown I think, that go to the equivalent of the two coils on a solenoid motor - in fact they go to the switches that are activated at each end of the travel of the slide bar. Each of these should go to the two outside contacts of a mini-toggle switch to operate the motor. The third wire on the motor - red I think - goes to one terminal on the power supply and the other terminal of the power supply is connected to the centre terminal on the toggle switch.

 

The remaining three wires on the motor can be used to switch frog polarity. One wire (Yellow?) goes to the frog the other two (Blue?) go to the two running rails. You don't need to use the last three colours if you don't want to switch your frog polarity.