DapolDave Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 As i hadnt posted these here before, and they had their debut at the RMWEb show but i think everyone misseed them, here are the latest Turbot Wagon cad/cam files for you to view. All going well they should be here in time for Christmas this year, and possibly (but not promising) Warley. Cheers Dave 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I don't suppose you'd like to use the underframe to 'reverse-engineer' a Bolster-E, would you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 Might do. Got any details you can PM me please? cheers dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I don't suppose you'd like to use the underframe to 'reverse-engineer' a Bolster-E, would you? Now there's a good idea if ever I saw one. Dapol Dave - Check out Paul Bartlett's site for bogie Bolster E, as well as splendid work on this forum to. I'll try and find some links for you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I don't suppose you'd like to use the underframe to 'reverse-engineer' a Bolster-E, would you? I thought that Dapol had already designed that in - they seem to have left off the door springs from the chassis - see attached photo of what it should look like. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Looking at the CAD further, it seems like there is still quite a long way to go with this, there is something very wrong with the way the sides meet the corner posts, the side seems to stop short rather than meet it, so that the pin that holds the door closed isn't actually on the end - I'm not totally convinced by the area where the sides meet the floor, but the images arn't clear enough to be sure... There are a few other minor niggles - no frame behind the handbrake lever, and the L section ties between the truss rods on either side are missing, the bogies appear to have a step in them around the axlebox area, and I'm slightly wondering if the bogies are in fact Glocester not the correct Davies and Lloyd? Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The bump stops are wrong and the brake lever has no definition to it, the vacuum cylinder linkage also hasn't been modelled yet so I agree with Jon that there is a bit of work yet. I'd also recommend modelling the vacuum cylinder pivot on the cylinder not the solebar.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I am rather reluctant to help, as there is kit for the Turbot already available, and it seems a shame that everyone is having a go at Cambrian. Drawings of Turbot in Bartlett, Paul W. & Mann, Trevor., (1985) Non - hoppered Steel Ballast Wagons. Part 4 The Plaice and Turbot. Model Railway Constructor vol. 52 (part 615) pp 418 - 422 & 444 - 445. Drawings - Plaice diag. ZC511A : Turbot diag. YC502A Photographs http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brturbot including details. Drawings of Bogie Bolster E is in Bartlett, P., Larkin, D., Mann, T., Silsbury, R., and Ward, A. (1985) An illustrated history of BR wagons, Volume 1 published by Oxford Publishing Company, 192 pages. Also, including a few of the coils in Silsbury, Roger & Mann, Trevor., (1983) The 30 ton Bogie Bolster E. Model Railway Constructor vol. 50 (part 587) pp 165 - 169. Drawings - Bogie bolster E diag. 1/479 ; Uncoded Coil rebuild ; Bogie coil P ; Bogie coil P with ex BEV bolsters . Photographs BBE http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbbe Coil R http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoilrCoil P http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoilpjpv Paul Bartlett 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted August 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2011 HI all, Good to see a 'state of the art' model of a Turbot. Sad that another Cambrian kit has been hit on by the RTR bandwagon. Overall not sure whether to be glad or sad..... Anyway, If Dapol do this model carefully (and correctly) they can back date it to make the Bolster E and also modernise it to make the rebodied Turbot - the Heron. Interesting! I wonder if they will do it in N as well as OO? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 There could be scope for several versions of this type:- pristine, weathered, damaged, out of gauge...... cheers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
definate maybe Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Hi, does anyone know if there are any long term plans to reduce them to n gauge? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 If i am to be honest, i agree that it's a shame that another Cambrian kit is being taken for RTR. However in talking to 'others' within the manufacturing business i think this will happen more and more in the next year or so. Basically it's a case of finding a model that will sell in RTR form and sell amounts rather than 'one offs', if that makes sense? So i fully expect that the cottage industry (no offence meant) will end up with kits of more distinctive looking individual wagons rather than ones that there are plenty of, and that will draw the attention of the big guys. Whether this is good or not for said industries is open to question, but in the long run i'm not sure it is. cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Hi Dave, wheither its a good thing or a bad thing i curtainly want a rake rtr and look forward to geting some, as nowadays i just don't have the time to be building up kits like i used to so its another valuable wagon to add to my stock. Maybe the kit firms could concert on other rare wagons never modelled like the mostyn acid tanks there superb and still not available very surprised by this as they would sell very well i'm sure! Much like the buxton lime ICI hopper it should of been made back in the 90's rtr but nope there was the caster high peak kit in the 80's and barring that not a lot else unless modelling o or n gauge and they were etched brass mainly so not an option to build for many of us, thou there is talk of them been made rtr but will it ever happen? Hmmmm Thanks, Rick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 Hi chaps, latest Turbot files are in and i post them here. i'm still not totally happy with the results and i am going back to the engineer with some revisions. anyway, i hope you can all see progress here? cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Looks ok/better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) Hi chaps, latest Turbot files are in and i post them here. i'm still not totally happy with the results and i am going back to the engineer with some revisions. anyway, i hope you can all see progress here? cheers Dave in the right direction, but still a way to go for me - I've pulled this photo off my hard drive to ilustrate the issue I have with the door/end area. and looking at your CAD in a similar way As you can see in the first, the end post sits behind the door, and there is a spigot that protrudes through a hole in the door, for it to be clipped closed. In your CAD that spigot still appears to be in mid air, not attached to the post., Jon Edited September 12, 2011 by jonhall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) Whilst I have the photo's out Bogies - the hole shape in the side of your bogie looks gloucester, not D&L, the D&L's hopefully these two images show my point this one is actually under a bobol, but it's easier to see than on my turbot photo's I'm not totally sure about these other area's on your bogie either and only a minor point, but the vac cylinder bracket seems to be a bit off - it should be central to the cylinder (or v/v) yours is off to one side. SO in summary, I dislike the body, HATE the bogies, and there seems to be a lot of bits missing from the chassis. Jon Edited September 12, 2011 by jonhall 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) The cross rods between the trussing are missing too. Vac cylinders seem to have been constrained the the brake lever pivot centreline which is a bit odd and should be lined up as Jon mentioned. I still think it'd be better to mould the pivot onto the vac cylinder to make it thinner and easier to model behind the solebar. Brake lever could do with some shape to it at least within the constraints of plastic moulding. The designer seems to have just made a vague attempt to copy the wagon from a picture rather than doing any decent measurements in parts. The numberplate on the solebar should be a 'D' plate too, it looks like a sort of oval on the model. A small detail but it'd cock up printing the number in there a little! I assume the model is running on undersize wheels and has a spacer on the bogie mount to avoid the wheels going up behind the solebars? That is certainly the impression gained compared to the prototype. It looks a bit 1990s compared to what Bachmann/Hornby are offering now and to your other releases as it currently stands. Edited September 12, 2011 by craigwelsh 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
new puritan Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) I would like to thank Dapol for posting the CAD files and allowing them to be criticised ... I am sure we all mean to be positive. In addition to Jon and Craig's comments comparing the CAD with pictures of the prototype ... Spill plate is at wrong angle and not seen here is that it also extends down slightly behind the inside of the end on the prototype. Outer wheel of the bogie is under the door spring on the CAD but inboard of this on the prototype [with its bigger wheels!] indicating that the side door proportion is incorrect and hence Jon's remarks regarding the door/end area. The end mounted grab with associated step was pretty unusual on the real thing and only appeared on some during the later years. There were several variations during the life of these wagons ... no grab or step, side mounted grab only, side mounted grab with step and the one shown by Dapol. I have not recorded an end mounted grab with no step so far. Underframe trussing looks to be oversize. That will do for now as I have to pack ready for a few days wagon photography starting tomorrow. Mark Edited September 13, 2011 by new puritan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 Hi everyone, A busy day today at Dapol Towers, Here's a revised (although i am STILL not happy) cad cam of the Turbot. Be kind, i'm feeling fragile cheers Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 definately a step in the right direction Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Be kind, i'm feeling fragile No sympathy from me if it's self-inflicted.... I'm with Jon, it's definitely looking better. The spill plates are still at the wrong angle though. The holes in the bogies now look a better shape, but now the frame above and below looks a little too skinny, like the holes are a bit too large, which I think is because they extend slightly too far towards the outside of the bogies. Also on the bogies, the ends appear to flatten out a bit too much before curving round to meet the axlebox. Again, that is only slight. The connecting pieces between the trussing is also still missing, although I appreciate that this could be a manufacturing compromise. Thanks for taking the time to put these up for critique, Dave, it seems like a win-win situation for everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
new puritan Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I'm with Jon, it's definitely looking better. I disagree chaps. The side door extends too far onto the end post now. Looks like the wheelbase is slightly too long. I now realise what I was missing when I previously stated 'that the side door proportion is incorrect' ... the sides are too deep ... compare the side profile CAD with the picture of 978114. Unfortunately I can't find my notebook with my Turbot measurements nor the MRC profile at the moment [still searching] but I think the sides were around 27 inches high. The sides on the CAD look to be nearly 3 foot high to me. Could the solebar be too shallow? Over to you gents. Mark 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Hi everyone, A busy day today at Dapol Towers, Here's a revised (although i am STILL not happy) cad cam of the Turbot. Be kind, i'm feeling fragile cheers Dave This is looking good................ A request from us (well, me anyway) scratchbuilders & kitbuilders - please, please, please, please, please, please, could you make the bogies available to buy as spare items from yourselves - there are so many other wagons that use them........... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 A request from us (well, me anyway) scratchbuilders & kitbuilders - please, please, please, please, please, please, could you make the bogies available to buy as spare items from yourselves - there are so many other wagons that use them........... What else uses these? (apart from bobol's obviously...) Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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