rayburns11 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Hi everyone, I'm currently planning my first layout and due to complete lack of space I am thinking of a small diesel era terminus in N gauge. I've seen video's of an 0 gauge layout called Oldham King Street online and really like the track plan. My question therefore is roughly what area would a layout like this in N gauge take up? Any info greatly appreciated, thanks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted September 11, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 11, 2011 Oldham King st. was originally built by Ian Futers, and it was based in a newcastle location (Percy Street) a long line of layouts all to the same trackplan (or more or less the same!) based on North British building a seperate route into Newcastle , there was a 4mm Newcastle Haymarket. It'd go into under 4 feet I reckon if using 2-car units - you would need 2 car units length of platform - 2 point lengths plus another 2 car unit length in the fiddleyard- so prob between 3 ft & 4 ft- be quite narrow back to front too, radiator shelf? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Rail Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Remember OKSt well - Is it still doing the circuit? - Looking forward to seeing the ressurection in 2mm - Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted September 12, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 12, 2011 Oldham King st. was originally built by Ian Futers, and it was based in a newcastle location (Percy Street) I always thought that, until recently I thought I read somewhere that he didn't build it. I thought that Percy Street was 4mm and OKS was a 7mm layout based on Ian Futers layouts? In terms of the OP, I suggest to lay out some track templates/rolling stock and see what can be achieved in the space available - you might be able to extend the trains a little in doing so... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4firstimes Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) The original design of Oldham New Street was indeed Percy street and followed the well tried design of just three points. The Railway Modeller (Oct 2001) carried an article of this layout including Fiddle yard, was around 12ft in 7mm scale. A subsequent article appeared in the Belated Modern Railway Modelling magazine Winter 2005 . Several years ago I scaled this layout to produce a 2mm scale version and I found that i could easly fit into a baseboard size of 6ft, with 2ft 6 inches allowed for the fiddle yard with points. Train lengths would be of 2 trains of two car 1st generation DMUs' or Three car second Generation DMU's ,with adequate plateform lengths,and avoiding the appearence of compressed plateforms. My interest in Percy or Oldham Street was because I was fascinated by the operation of DMU's, in the 1970's unlike the operation of 2nd Generation DMU's, consisted of units being joined and spilt in stations, together with vans being attached to to rear, requiring class 08 or 03/04 or whatever locomotive was at hand to break the consist. When I viewed the ideal length of baseboards, I considered 6ft, including the Fiddle yard ,allowed slighty longer headshunts into the plateforms not only for the storage of DMU's but the storage of parcels wagons and Postal Stock. If the 1970's was the choice of period additional operational opportunites are presented in being able shunt non passenger wagons these may have been Newspapers and TPOs' without too many constraints. Percy street followed the same design of Newcastle Haymarket , this layout was shown in the railway Modeller Jun 1984, Feb 95 and Model rail Supplement. Newcastle Haymarket I always considered more appealing for N gauge, as the Station was built on a viaduct allowing a proper street scene to be modelled, and despite the simpicity of the plan totally in charactor of a Inner Suburban Station. Several years ago I did see Newcastle Haymarkat with a new owner and I believe was converted to DCC, despite being P4 in build still maintaned its appeal. I think the present owner at the time built a DMU storage facilitity , but the shortness of baseboard limited the DMU servicing facility to basic. A 2mm scale model of Newcastle may appear in the future, as at present Cromer in 2mm scale is my future layout complete with working spads. Edited September 12, 2011 by 4firstimes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Savoyard Posted September 12, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 12, 2011 The O Gauge Oldham King Street layout was built by David Hampson, one of the orginal members of the LYDCC group. http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=7999829089703954294 Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted September 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 13, 2011 I always thought that, until recently I thought I read somewhere that he didn't build it. I thought that Percy Street was 4mm and OKS was a 7mm layout based on Ian Futers layouts? h'mm? ? - I remember reading info at an exhibition (Bolton-NOTGOG) saying it was the same layout (possibly rebuilt/refurbished) both Percy Street and Oldham King Street were 7mm as were most of this trackplan, would be interesting to find out? apart from that- Newcastle Haymarket was definitely 4mm (P4?) and as has been mentioned already probably the best starting point for trying to put into N/2mm. -as far as the style of layout goes Haymarket was imho the most interesting and believable since the Lochside style layout , the viaduct gave an excuse for the cramped style much better than anything since, i know its popular but Victoria Park doesn't come anywhere near as inspiring as some of the original layouts, which were cramped, but didn't look it? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Rail Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Any idea of the layouts whereabouts nowadays? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted September 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 14, 2011 Of course the provenance of the layout, doesnt really come into the OP I still say 4 feet or less LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted September 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 14, 2011 Any idea of the layouts whereabouts nowadays? Not sure...shall we ask Ian Futers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Rail Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Oh go on! -You first! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) The O Gauge Oldham King Street layout was built by David Hampson, one of the orginal members of the LYDCC group. http://video.google....829089703954294 Peter Sorry, but the Video clip claiming that David Hampson "built" Oldham King Street is just plain wrong. He did an article about it in the Winter 2005 issue of Modern Railway Modelling - I have it here in front of me, and in it he quite clearly states that he bought Percy Street from Ian Futers (who even delivered it!) after admiring it at the 2001 Warley Show, and then turned it into Oldham King Street. He did replace the backscene, and station nameboards, and has added more detail. I do like the video clip linked to - but then the layout needs all the DCC "whistles and bells" it can get, because operationally, when I saw it as Percy Street, it was dull as flippin' ditchwater to watch...... Edited September 14, 2011 by F-UnitMad 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Savoyard Posted September 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) Sorry but I only took the information from the video clip in the post which stated it was built by David Hampson. I have not seen David for a while and I was going to contact him to check the background of the layout but I have no need as you've found out the history. David has built an excellent new layout 'Oldham King Street Parcels' which attended our Exhibition last year and won best DCC Layout. Peter Edited September 14, 2011 by Savoyard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) Yes, sorry - I didn't mean to imply that you personally had made the claim. But whoever has posted that clip has their information wrong, that's all. Will go back and edit my comment... Done. Edited September 14, 2011 by F-UnitMad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted September 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) Oldham King st. was originally built by Ian Futers I stand corrected Russ Not sure...shall we ask Ian Futers? Like I said...maybe he knows! I recall IF built Lochside in both 4mm and 7mm scales so I think this is where my confusion arose...sorry peeps. Back to the OP, I reckon I could squeeze on a 2FS version of OKS on one of my preferred IKEA lack shelves (no connection etc...it's just all my layouts use them ) which is 1100mm x 260mm including the fiddleyard, however as 4firsttimes outlines above, if you want to stretch it out a bit and make it look less cramped, then you could do so. It sort of depends how much space you have really... Edited September 14, 2011 by bcnPete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Rail Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I stand corrected Russ Like I said...maybe he knows! I recall IF built Lochside in both 4mm and 7mm scales so I think this is where my confusion arose...sorry peeps. Back to the OP, I reckon I could squeeze on a 2FS version of OKS on one of my preferred IKEA lack shelves (no connection etc...it's just all my layouts use them ) which is 1100mm x 260mm including the fiddleyard, however as 4firsttimes outlines above, if you want to stretch it out a bit and make it look less cramped, then you could do so. It sort of depends how much space you have really... Still waiting.....seeing that you know the chap.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted September 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 14, 2011 Still waiting.....seeing that you know the chap.... not really...spoke to Ian a few times at exhibitions...the last being Ally Pally 2007 with Loch Lochty. A thoroughly nice chap, down to earth and will always be a hero as he was one of the first to make a layout with corporate BR Blue...at a time when the Railway Modeller was almost back to back steam... I guess this thread will get back on topic if the OP warms to any of our suggestions... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayburns11 Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 Hi guys, thanks for all the input. I do recall seeing Newcastle Haymarket in a mag a few years back and I do like the idea of the station being raised above road level, this might be a bit ambitious for my skills at the moment. I was thinking of setting the layout in a city scape but below ground level with retaining walls and bridge/tunnel mouth to act as the scenic break. I would also like to extend the sidings slightly with a view to more operational use than just holding a loco, perhaps a parcels siding or similar, as Mickey has suggested in his track plan. In terms of train length I was thinking of having the platforms just long enough for 2 or 3 car units, but I suppose if I make them long enough for 4 car units then this would also add to the possibilities. I have seen a few of Ian Futers layouts in the magazines over the years and they always seem to appeal to me no matter what the setting or era modelled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayburns11 Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 Oh, and in terms of available space for the layout, I would like to keep the width down to as narrow as possible but the length could be open to change. I like bcnPete's suggestion of the Ikea lack shelves - we already have some of these in the living room with the wifes art books on - perhaps I could persuade her that a nice layout would look better! Or not......! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandman Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Oldham King Street Parcels is the new layout and I managed to shoot a short video at a show I visited.Hope you enjoy and please excuse the nail-less teen at the back of the layout:-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKQojJf0vgY&hd=1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted September 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 14, 2011 WoW - What a great looking layout - Thanks for posting that vid - makes me want to chuck out all my 2mm + 4mm stuff and finally get my 7mm stuff going. I was assuming the young guy watching was nervous that the CCT's would derail.... Rayburns11 - Thanks - Why not wait for the right moment, remove said art books and lay out some paper track templates on the shelf? Remember the lack shelf also comes in 1900mm x 260mm so if you want to have something less crammed you can...or consider having a separate detachable fiddleyard for the 1100mm shelf? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayburns11 Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 That is amazing, I've never seen such a commitment to nail chewing! Seriously though that is a cracking layout - 7mm scale always looks amazing. bcnPete - I didn't see the longer lack's on Ikea's website, didn't think to scroll down! Where would I get paper track templates from? The only track I have at the moment is two circles of Peco 1st and 2nd radius and 4 straights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted September 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 14, 2011 I didn't see the longer lack's on Ikea's website, didn't think to scroll down! Where would I get paper track templates from? The only track I have at the moment is two circles of Peco 1st and 2nd radius and 4 straights. I used to make my own from photocopying set track etc but more recently have used the 2mmFS point templates available from the 2mm Association. Try these from Peco which you can download as PDF's and print. http://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=pointplans That should help map things out a little. Hope this helps... Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 He did enjoy that thumb, didn't he...?? I'd not seen this new layout before; someone has expanded a bit from the original O.K.St. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted September 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 14, 2011 Sorry, but the Video clip claiming that David Hampson "built" Oldham King Street is just plain wrong. He did an article about it in the Winter 2005 issue of Modern Railway Modelling - I have it here in front of me, and in it he quite clearly states that he bought Percy Street from Ian Futers (who even delivered it!) after admiring it at the 2001 Warley Show, and then turned it into Oldham King Street. He did replace the backscene, and station nameboards, and has added more detail. I do like the video clip linked to - but then the layout needs all the DCC "whistles and bells" it can get, because operationally, when I saw it as Percy Street, it was dull as flippin' ditchwater to watch...... The parcels layout is definitely a different layout and a nice one too looking at the youtube! Haymarket has also been exhibited in an extended format. Reading Mr Futers articles and books, he was aware that these track layouts were operationally dull and that maybe worth considering for the OP it seems also that he subscribed to the 'martinwales' school of layout operating (ie leave it to someone/anyone else!!! ) In 2mm/N a good thing might be to put a scissors crossing and intensive unit working something like Haymarket/Percy St meets Minories, you'd have fun splitting loco hauled trains/rakes anyway unless you are thinking of ditching the standard N couplers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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