Signalling guidance sought - track plan attached

[duncan_am_smith]

To Beast and all the other founts of signalling wisdom:

 

I've attached a track plan for "Arbroath Abbey"; which follows the course of the old Arbroath & Forfar line (and the original terminus, at Catherine Street, has been remodelled, to allow through running). The spur to Arbroath Harbour remains, though working under "one engine in steam" rule; and, whilst the history books will tell you that the Thomas Telford-surveyed canal course was never built, modellers' licence proves otherwise...

 

Now, I'm no signalling expert and I ask for guidance, to correct my woeful efforts -

The red diamonds represent home signals (my assumption is that home starters are needed for Down platforms on the station exit); the yellow chevrons represent distant signals; and the white circle represent calling-on dollies.

I'm not certain what protection I need for the through goods line, in the Down direction; I don't know if I need a calling-on dolly to protect the crossover at the station end; and I'm not sure whether a calling-on dolly is correct, to bring a train off the Up Main into the through goods line.

 

And, if there's any other signalling rules / practices which were relevant to ex-NBR lines, or to BR (ScR) in general, I'd appreciate a steer.

Many thanks in advance.

[The Stationmaster]

Duncan

 

I'm a little confused by the track layout - can you clarify the period you are protraying and which lines are used in which direction (apart from the Up & Down Mains and the Branch please).

[duncan_am_smith]

Thanks for your interest and apologies if it doesn't come across clearly. Hope this info helps -

 

The thread's title description hopefully includes the location and period: "BR (ScR, ex-NBR), c.1960 semaphores"

 

The track plan is long and thin - the join being where I've indicated "X" and "Y" on the upper and lower diagrams.

 

Apart from the Up Main and the Down Main, all other lines are intended to be workable in both directions.

[The Stationmaster]

Alas I can't do much in the way of computerised drawing but I hope - if it works - this will help. Where the signal arm is coloured red it would be a full size running arm, where it is black it would be a miniature type arm, the Dowm Main signal protecting the crossover should I hope be obvious (good excuse for forgetting to colour it ). You can add lower arm distants to choice on the resited bracket signal but I really don't know the relevant practice in that area for the Goods line although I suspect that it wouldn't have one.

 

The track layout isn't really right for 1960s - the main reason why I asked - although not being at all familiar with Scotland in that era there could well have been a suitable prototype example up there. The goods line also needs a trap point where I have rather messily drawn a squiggle against it.

[beast66606]

Methinks my learned friend has missed a home signal off the platform end (not mandatory but likely)

[jeff mcghie]

 

The track layout isn't really right for 1960s - the main reason why I asked - although not being at all familiar with Scotland in that era there could well have been a suitable prototype example up there.

 

Agreed, its unlikely that bi directional moves on the Up Main for Down trains using the loops would have been permitted back then. Much more likely to have been Up and Down loops on their respective sides or, if no room for that, a proper double junction.

 

Depending on when the semaphores date from, the branch might not have been a facing point.

[The Stationmaster]

Methinks my learned friend has missed a home signal off the platform end (not mandatory but likely)

 

Depends on your Railway young fellah . Definitely the case at larger stations on 'mine' and I would think equally so on 'yours' but I'm not too well up on the right hand side of Scotland to say with any certainty.

 

But a good idea to point it out

[duncan_am_smith]

Thanks for the insight, gents. I'll update my track plan accordingly; though I deliberately kept the layout simple. The story goes that Arbroath Abbey remained open, through NBR, LNER and BR days, as a local line and as a diversion option for the real Arbroath line, until early '63.

 

The Up and Down main lines see booked services from Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow (via Dundee); and the occasional Kings Cross-Edinburgh train. Inter-regional fitted- and semi-fitted freights also frequent this line.

 

The through passenger line mainly serves the Arbroath-Dundee and Arbroath-Forfar local services (the latter service actually ceased in '52).

 

The through goods line leads (offscene) to a small goods yard, whose activities focus on fish from Arbroath Harbour; and sundries from the Metal Box factory at Elliot Junction. The vast majority of freight handling take place in the real Arbroath's sizeable goods yard.

 

By the way, if you've never enjoyed freshley-landed "Arbroath Smokies", you haven't lived! And that's coming from a boy with loose genetic ties to Clackmannanshire - sacrilege!

[duncan_am_smith]

By way of gratitude to your help - or a Pandora's Box of your wrath, if I've misunderstood your teachings - here's the revised plan. The pegs are 'off', for the 'Up' Main and for the 'Down' Main.

 

'Down' trains, off Platform 3 (Arbroath-Forfar locals) and from the goods yard, no longer use the 'Up' Main, before crossing to the 'Down' Main.

I still intend to keep the 'Up' and 'Down' Mains as single-direction running; hence no starter on Platform 2.

Thomas Telford's navvies kindly filled in the old canal; and resited it a couple of hundred yards to the north...

And, I tell you what, I'm rather looking forward to building that fine gantry!

[The Stationmaster]

The signal coming off the Harbour branch should most likely be a short arm - sorry if I didn't make that clear, and it should be right up close to the toe of the trap - as should the one coming off the goods line.

 

You appear too to have gained a superfluous one 'in the middle' so to speak by the branch junction - which line does it apply to?

[Horsetan]

....You appear too to have gained a superfluous one 'in the middle' so to speak by the branch junction - which line does it apply to?

 

It may be the inner home for Platform 2?

[The Stationmaster]

It may be the inner home for Platform 2?

 

Judging from the lack of a lower arm distant I was inclined to the view that it might be for going in the other direction but no doubt Duncan will explain all.

[duncan_am_smith]

Thanks for the advice re: positioning of harbour-branch and goods-line signals with respect to their catch-points.

 

The "home-in-the-middle" is what I thought I needed, to protect the main lines from exiting Platform 3 traffic in the Down direction (and relates to the distant peg on the Platform 3 starter signal) as well as from exiting goods-line traffic in the Down direction. Have I made a booboo?

 

Many thanks for all this, by the way; your help has solved my hours of head-scratching!

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks for the advice re: positioning of harbour-branch and goods-line signals with respect to their catch-points.

 

The "home-in-the-middle" is what I thought I needed, to protect the main lines from exiting Platform 3 traffic in the Down direction (and relates to the distant peg on the Platform 3 starter signal) as well as from exiting goods-line traffic in the Down direction. Have I made a booboo?

 

Many thanks for all this, by the way; your help has solved my hours of head-scratching!

Duncan

 

There would in any case be a signal on the exit from Platform 3 protecting the points where the goods line joins. What you are effectively adding is a second signal and whether or not it will be there depends on a number of factors - yes, quite possibly there on the prototype but that depends very much on the distance between the points etc (regret I have no expertise on NBR methods but they could well have done it like that?). On a model - with a degree of compression you run the risk of 'over signalling' by throwing in too much and making the scene look 'busy' with a forest of signals - so there is also an aesthetic angle to consider as well.

[duncan_am_smith]

Thanks for your steer, Mike.

 

From the comprehensive information I read at http://www.signalbox.org/block.shtml I assumed a requirement for the "home-in-the-middle"; but I'm happy to be corrected if I've misinterpreted those rules. My hunt, for NBR-related signalling practice / positioning, has been in vain.

 

The scenic break starts at the station over-bridge; and, whilst the platform starter signals will be glimpsed through the bridge arches, I would hope that the inclusion of the "home-in-the-middle" as well shouldn't make the layout feel over-signalled.

 

And so to start thinking about the wiring...