brossard Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Despite being equipped with a brilliant sound decoder, this model still doesn't have lights. I got the Express Models lighting kit and started the install. The wiring instructions are not specific to the Loksound V4 and the way I see it, the light wires need to be soldered direct to the decoder. This is a little scary. Has anyone done the install successfully yet? Any wise words as to the best way to go about it? I did send a note to Express Models asking for their advice. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Mc Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Hi This is what I did to my class 20 sound decoder. Its a 21 pin lok 3.5. Hope that helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Hi John Do you have or can you link to a picture of a real class 20 where the lights are easily visible? Yes we know they had them but could you actually see them? Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Jim, thanks for your input. The V4 chip is laid out differently from the one you show. I tried taking a picture but can't get close enough. Here's the layout from the manual: http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/brossard/V4Schematic.jpg[/img]"] The locations of the wires are clear enough. I was just curious to know whether there may be a cleaner way to acheive the result other than direct solder. As to your proto question, no I haven't looked for a picture of the loco with the lights on. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Hi John Depends on what you want from your model but if it's something that looks like a miniature version of the real thing beware of the extra cost and effort involved in adding something that gives you the opposite result Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Good point Jim. It seemed a shame to have such a great sounding model but no lights. (I haven't ventured into adding working lights to steam locos - yet). Not only will it improve the look of the thing (or should), it will make the loco unique. It's also something that will expand my knowledge/experience - always a good thing. Anyway, we'll see what Express Models have to say. If there is no other option I will have a go with the soldering iron. I have a 15W with fine tip. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Good point Jim. It seemed a shame to have such a great sounding model but no lights. .... Jim's point about light visibility applies to steam, diesel and electric types prior to the introduction of the high intensity lamps used today. I fitted some lamps into class 76 electrics for Alan Whitehouse's superb MSW layout. The specification from Alan was along the lines of "just about visible if you squint carefully and the room lighting is fairly low". So the LEDs have their output turned down with large resistors. Alan is an authority on the 76's and the Woodhead line, and his models reflect that attention to detail. Lamps on locomotives were generally "markers", not "headlamps"; think Morris Minor side-lamps, not football stadium floodlamps ! - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Understood Nigel. This Cl 20 has a headcode box and reversing lights (that wouldn't even be on when hauling a train - the circuitry allows these to be turned on or off). Anyway, we're here now so it's a matter of pressing forward. I must look into light intensity on this and my other models. I certainly haven't bothered to fit lights on my 08 and 03. Maybe they are a "gimmick". Then again sound is also something of a "gimmick". We had an operating session the other night where the majority of locos had sound. Quite a noisy room. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Mc Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hi Sorry about that the black wire in the middle is actually the blue...I didnt have any blue at the time. The only wire location that seems to have changed is the purple. Some of the lighting from RTR manufacturers is too bright. That where the resistor come into play. This is the class 20 with lighting. Cab light plus dash warning lights all independent of each other. As to steam loco lights they were more viable than you think. I have a couple hundred mags from the mid 40 through to the 60s with plenty of steam shots. Some of the night shots the lights were bright. No doubt there but certainly some you could hardly make out. I am more than happy to scan and send to people but I cannot put on the public forum. Mind you DCC allows you just to simply switch them off as pointed out. This is also worth a look "Snow" on youtube it has the Blue Pullman plus the LMS turbomotive but you can see the lights lit on the steam locos clearly during the day in a couple of shots plus a Southern loco running with their lights on during the day around 4.13min very visible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl4pJwcE7JI Too bright?? not for me. I just cannot see the addition of lights spoiling a model if done fairly well. What did you get in the Express lighting kit just out of interest. Cheers Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 "I was just curious to know whether there may be a cleaner way to acheive the result other than direct solder." Hi John It's possible to solder the wires directly to the PCB contacts, instead of the decoder itself, thus avoiding any possible damage/loss of warranty. If necessary in the future, the decoder can also be easily removed for ie a reblow etc . The photo below shows wiring mods necessary for a 6 function 21 pinTCS decoder, using Aux 1 2 3 & 4 outputs, fitted to a Bachmann Class 20. Substituting a Loksound V3.5 or V4, would give 4 or 6 functions - using the same wiring mods. You may also find as I have, due to the limited clearance between the body hood and chassis block, getting the body to fit back on properly with the extra wiring etc can be a problem, especially when sound fitted. Full details of this model will appear in a future edition of Model Rail Magazine. HTH Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 Many thanks Ken, this did occur to me but it's not easy to see where the pinouts are located. Your picture is extremely helpful. I have also found that there is very limited clearance with sound decoders on other locos. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I look forward the the Model Rail article. Cheers John Edit: I had a thought about there being a jumper harness. There isn't but I found this: http://www.dccsuppli...roducts_id=1542 Now on order. We'll see if I have an issue with fitting. Edit 2: Another thought (I'm full of them). Any reason why I couldn't replace the Bachmann circuit board with the DCC Supplies device? What those copper spring thingies? Edit 3: Thanks for the pictures Marty. The cab effect is really neat. For now though I will perservere with the external lights. There are some very exciting lighting products available for steam locos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Edit 2: Another thought (I'm full of them). Any reason why I couldn't replace the Bachmann circuit board with the DCC Supplies device? Yes you could replace the Bach board with a ESU breakout PCB, but it may prove a problem securing/fitting it in the limited sapce avail, the same result is achieveable with the std fit factory PCB. What those copper spring thingies? AFAIK some sort of "ferrite rod type" supression coils to help stop motor interference on radio/TV's etc - although most decoders already have supression circuits built in ? I accidently broke one on a 37 PCB - which resulted in a completely dead loco. I tried replacing the coil with a piece of insulated wire, but still had a dead loco - not sure why, perhaps someone else can shed a light on why this happens ? BTW Do note that I've mixed up the wiring colors "in error" as shown on my Class 20 photo - Green wire = Aux 4 Brown wire = Aux 1 Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 I was thinking that stacking the Bachmann board, breakout PCB and decoder would almost certainly result in something that won't fit. If the breakout PCB can be used in place of the Bachmann board, I should have a fighting chance. I had a feeling the copper thingies were suppressors. I don't see the necessity. Anyway we'll have to to wait a week or so before I can get on with the job. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 For desiels In the green era anything that could haul a tail load was not allowed to use onboard tail lights and had to carry an oil lamp. This lasted until the early 80s when the use of tail lights became common but even then they were on a rocker switch so you could have one or the other but never both. This was changed again in the late 80's when they were rewired to display both tail lights. So a green class 20 displaying 2 tail lights COULDN'T happen. However what is often refered to as tail lights are marker or shunt lights and you might have seen a green diesel running with a single red showing on both ends at the same time. Some classes such as hymeks would shunt showing a red and White on both ends Hth Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 That is an interesting piece of info Jim. It just goes to show, I suppose, that fitting lights to any green diesel is probably a waste of time. Must do some tooth sucking to decide where I go from here. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Taylor Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I've read this topic with great interest as I'm also thinking of adding lights to a Class 20. In my case the Hornby BR Blue model. I'm fairly new to Model Railways so I'm not at a familiar with prototype operations. Anyways I was wondering what lights would be on a BR Blue Class 20, where they would be placed and how they would operate so I know how many seperate functions I would need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 The project is very much on the back burner at the moment. The lighting kit circuit board simply will not fit in the loco. I am pretty happy with the loco as is. BTW the decoder failed recently but Olivias Trains came to the rescue by doing an exchange and reblow for a very reasonable price. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_B Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Brossard asked:- Edit 2: Another thought (I'm full of them). Any reason why I couldn't replace the Bachmann circuit board with the DCC Supplies device? What those copper spring thingies? They're Inductors. They act as AC Blocks on the motor feeds. If you break them dependant on the circuit design you may have to replace them to restore the motor supply. Ian_B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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