coachmann Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 FOWLER 'AUSTIN SEVEN' 0-8-0 These 7F locoswere the mainstay of Lees (26F) sheds freight operations for 18 years from 1939 until replaced by Austerity 2-8-0's in December 1957. This is 49662 on shed at Lees with the tender of a classmate in the background. They were still playing a significant role on the Standadge route during the period of my proposed layout (Greenfield). Photo by Jim Davenport (Brian Green Collection)... My first model was built from Plastikard in 1963 on a Hornby Dublo 8F chassis with the Ringfield motor of the time spilling well out of the cab. The tender had already lost a back step! Some time ago I was fortunate enough to buy from fellow RMweb member, The Stationmaster, a partially completed Cotswold Models Fowler 7F 0-8-0. It was set aside because i had mislaid some vital spare parts. Anyway, these came to light yesterday and included a Gibson mainframe etching and brake shoes and a Bachmann Fowler tender. The Cotswold mainframe is solid brass so I marked off where the holes should go to take the brake hangers and drilled into the solid brass with a .45" drill and plenty of water! Nickel silver handrail wire was secured in the holes with Loctite.... The Gibson etched brake hangers were then soldered to the stubs of wire and the surplus removed. Separate brake shoes were glued to the hangers with Loctite. Cross rigging was added and whole lot soldered to a stout strip of brass wire running longnitudaly secured into the solid brass chassis.... I cut the forward portion of mainframes & guard irons from the Gibson etches, chamfered the edges and glued them in place on the forward part of the Cotswold frames. For some reason the Gibson frames are around 3mm longer than the cast whitemetal loco body and so had ot be shortened to fit. I attempted to strip the loco with cellulose thinners would it would hardly touch the acrylic paint. So now Im removing it bit by bit with sprapers. This is how things stand at the moment.... 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Id love a model of one of these. soak the body overnight in car brake fluid, will get all the paint off easily Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) Larry, I must say I was never very keen on these locos at the time - rather plain and ugly to my young eyes. I'm sure they used to plod past our garden at the bottom of Goddard(!) Street on the old OA&GB. When they were the mainstay of freight at Lees, do you think they ever ventured to Delph. One will on my version! - 49509, I think I've gone for - got the smokebox number and shed plates. I've gone for the Alan Gibson etched brass kit, which does look very good (in the flat!). I've been putting off thoughts of construction till I figure out how best to replicate the inside valve gear. To me, this is a problem with all high pitched boiler, inside cylinder locos like these and the L&Y 0-6-0's. Any way, I'm sure yours will look just great after its transformation into (grimy?) BR unlined black! Cheers, Dave. Edited October 5, 2011 by Dave Holt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 There was a rather nice 7mm one for sale at the Manchester show though I think the prototype looks like a modeller has been a bit silly with a 4F and stuck an extra set of wheels on and put the boiler too high.. You can tell some of the Manchester club when you sort out the motion Dave, apparently Slattocks has a couple of Gibson kits waiting for it in drawers . I'll stick to Super D's, they look better and I can have a South Wales one.. Those frames look like they'll survive even the most rough of shunting accidents Larry! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 I can tell you that a LNWR Super D paled into insignificance beside a Fowler 0-8-0. In real life they were nothing like a 4F though i must admit they never look as impressive in model form. Dunno why. Dave Holt : When they were the mainstay of freight at Lees, do you think they ever ventured to Delph. To be honest, I don't know. The Delph Goods was a LYR 0-6-0 job for years although it was a Fairburn Tank job by 1960 and stayed that way up to closure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 .....I've gone for the Alan Gibson etched brass kit, which does look very good (in the flat!). I've been putting off thoughts of construction till I figure out how best to replicate the inside valve gear...... The "Austin 7" was one of the new generation multi-depth etched kits from AG, I think - look out for footplate sections that are longer than they should be, e.g. this happened on the "Crab" and the "Std.5". Whilst the original artwork may have come out perfect, the actual etch did not in those two kits, with strange "stretching" errors! Means sawing off the excess, and losing rivet detail that should be there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 The "Austin 7" was one of the new generation multi-depth etched kits from AG, I think - look out for footplate sections that are longer than they should be, e.g. this happened on the "Crab" and the "Std.5". Whilst the original artwork may have come out perfect, the actual etch did not in those two kits, with strange "stretching" errors! Means sawing off the excess, and losing rivet detail that should be there. Ah so thats what was wrong. I found the Alan G. mainframes were longer than the Cotswold loco and my initial reaction was the latter was too short. I had to remove 3mm but of course the Gibson kit wouldn't have an overthick whitemetal bufferbeam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 ....I found the Alan G. mainframes were longer than the Cotswold loco and my initial reaction was the latter was too short. I had to remove 3mm but of course the Gibson kit wouldn't have an overthick whitemetal bufferbeam. Did you check against any available drawings or known dimensions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 Did you check against any available drawings or known dimensions? Nope. Got none. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Nope. Got none. Ah. No further questions, Your Honour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbax Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Dave Have a look at the brassmasters inside valve gear for there 4F, i'm sure that it could be adapted as either working (very fiddly) or non working, but then I know you like a challenge Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) Phil, I hope larry doesn't think we've hijacked his thread! Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, the 4F's were equiped with short travel Stephenson's gear whereas the Austin 7's had modern, long travel, Walschaert's. Might be able to use the con rods and cross-heads/slide bars from the BM kit, but that would be it. I did start to draw the gear out with a view to getting it etched but didn't get very far. Unfortunately, I don't have CAD and that's definately the way to go, these days. perhaps there's a kind benefactor out there? The real things were let down by having the standard, inadequate 4F axle-boxes and crank pins - which had a tendency to snap off - hence the early demise of these locos compared with the Super D's which they were supposed to replace. Back to Larry's model, hopefully. Any progress with the laborious manual paint removal and re-painting? At least these were very plain locos, so not too many fiddley bits to work round (on the body, at least). Dave. Edited October 7, 2011 by Dave Holt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Can't wait to get back onto the 7F. Needs new LMS buffers and plumbing aplenty before fitting and testing the motor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Dave Holt has just sent me two scale drawings. Many thanks. I have resized them to print to 4mm scale and the Cotswold 7F smokebox wrapper is 2mm too short. The smokebox frontplate lacks the flattened underside to accomodate and give access to the valvechest. Looks like some thought is required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 any progress to report? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 any progress to report? I had completely forgotten about this thread. I completed the loco last week :-http://www.rmweb.co....__fromsearch__1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 thats brilliant! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Thanks Michael. I had etchings for almost the whole of the loco except for a couple of steps and the boiler, and did in fact build the etched cab but it was too wide for the Cotswold footplate. Maybe I'll return to this loco in the future and tart it up a bit. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Dave Holt has just sent me two scale drawings. Many thanks. I have resized them to print to 4mm scale and the Cotswold 7F smokebox wrapper is 2mm too short. The smokebox frontplate lacks the flattened underside to accomodate and give access to the valvechest. Looks like some thought is required. You shouldn't scale from drawings Larry, especially ones that have been enlarged/reduced. When I worked in the drawing office at ICI every drawing had "do not scale" writ large. We worked on the assumption that machinists etc would use the dimensions. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Hi Ed, The fact that the smokebox was short was born out when I recieved accurate etchings from Colin at Alan Gibson. Working from re-scaled drawings is sometimes necessary in the absence of footnotes and dimensions. In this instance it was good enough for the job in hand. I was alerted when certain things did not tally with photos. The reason this model has worked out okay is because the wheelbase is a bit short too and so this positions the leading end of the smokebox relative to the leading drivers. Actually DWG. No.14 H, which presumably is a Skinley, shows a short smokebox with a wrapper 16.5mm long as per the Cotswold kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 looks good Larry. Looks like Big Betha without the outside cylinders. Pete 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 These engines didn't just puff, they banged as well! Watching them slogging up through Marsden with endless trains of coal was as exciting to me as standing by the East Coast mainline was to a Gresley fan. I saw my last working 7F slogging up an incline off the Manchester Ship Canal near Weast or Salford in 1959, but stood on cold dead ones in store at Bolton the following year. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Hi Ed, The fact that the smokebox was short was born out when I recieved accurate etchings from Colin at Alan Gibson. Working from re-scaled drawings is sometimes necessary in the absence of footnotes and dimensions. In this instance it was good enough for the job in hand. I was alerted when certain things did not tally with photos. The reason this model has worked out okay is because the wheelbase is a bit short too and so this positions the leading end of the smokebox relative to the leading drivers. Actually DWG. No.14 H, which presumably is a Skinley, shows a short smokebox with a wrapper 16.5mm long as per the Cotswold kit. I'm truly sorry to hear the news that the kit is inaccurate. I've had one in my to do box since it came out about 30 years ago! I've also got the Skinley drawing and it seemed to be accurate, but if the drawing is wrong there's not a lot to be done. Perhaps it needs to be transferred from the to do box to the re-cycling box outside. The last time I saw one of these engines was at Edgeley around 1962 and it was in a bad way. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Penrith Beacon : Perhaps it needs to be transferred from the to do box to the re-cycling box outside. Heck don't do that. It still makes up into a decent Austin Seven. Remember I was working with a loco that had been assembled thirty years ago. If your's is still a kit, you can easily extend the smokebox before fitting the chimney, an option not open to me. Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 28mins in.. an Austin 7 brewing up inside Aintree shed with 2 more withdrawn ones dumped behind the shed buidling in 1959.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nMpfVh5Itc 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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