RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted October 12, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12, 2011 I have seen a very wide range of colours for water cranes on GW and BR(W) themed layouts, grrns, creams, and a few variations on black. What should the colour be please? I would guess that the hose was leather - the closest image I have seen are the "shot water tank" scene fron Titfield Thunderbolt - That hose is definitely not rubber unless it is quite thin (push bike inner tube thin). If they were made of leather, then I would guess that a "mucky black" would be more suitable - definitly grubbier on the lowest portions where the fireman grabbed it to drop into the tank lid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 12, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2011 I have seen a very wide range of colours for water cranes on GW and BR(W) themed layouts, grrns, creams, and a few variations on black. What should the colour be please? I would guess that the hose was leather - the closest image I have seen are the "shot water tank" scene fron Titfield Thunderbolt - That hose is definitely not rubber unless it is quite thin (push bike inner tube thin). If they were made of leather, then I would guess that a "mucky black" would be more suitable - definitly grubbier on the lowest portions where the fireman grabbed it to drop into the tank lid. The bag ('hose') was indeed leather and the joint was riveted and the colour tended to vary with the time of year, location, and amount of use but i would say more grey than black for much of the time. In later years the leather was replaced on some cranes by large diameter rubber tube which started life black and weathered to a sort of 'faded black'. The colour of teh cranes thenmselves seems to have varied more than a little and whatever it was then faded quite rapidly, especially the cream which according to my memory went quite very pale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Post nationalisation a lot of WR water cranes were painted in chocolate and cream like the station buildings. The style varied but typically the base would be chololate and the stem cream. Fortunately there are plenty of colour pictures about so finding references should not be too hard. In GWR days I do not really know. I would guess they would have been in light and dark stone but pictures are harder to find, especially colour ones. I will have a browse through my albums and let you know if I find anything definitive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I have found a nice clear view of the water crane at Reading in 1947 with Mogul 9303 taking water. Much to my suprise it is stripey! The bottom 4' are white although it is a bit grubby. The next 3' are some shade of brown, it is quite hard to determine the exact shade as it is also fairly dirty. There does not appear to be much red in the brown so I am not sure if it is GWR Dark Stone certainly it is a lot less pink than modern representations of that shade. The top 3' and the arm appear to be in a lighter shade of brown (perhaps Light Stone although again it is dirty and does not look much like modern representations). I think it had been a while since this crane was last painted as the arm is pretty much black with soot. The flexible 'pipe' leading into the tender is a dark, dirty brown colour. I cannot reproduce the picture for copyright but I think it is reprinted in Backtrack Portfolio Special No 1: By Gwr to the West. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Normally BR colour was cream with the bottom four foot painted brown, although examples at High Wycombe were cream all over. GWR light and dark stone although the horizontal top pipe seems to have been painted in many cases black. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 The photos of the ones at Birmingham Snow Hill that I have seen would seem to indicate that in later BR days at least they were all over black. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 This one at Didcot is preserved but is a good representation of typical condition in BR days. http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/southwest/OxfordTrip/P6305432.jpg This one at Whitney was all white (or possibly cream). http://www.martin.loader.btinternet.co.uk/7445_Witney.jpg This one at Henley-in-Arden is pre-nationalisation and shows that 2-tone cranes were common then too. B&W unfortunately so we cannot tell the exact shades. http://warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrha1406.htm The preserved example on the SVR is probably a decent approximation of the one above. http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidedwards/5570845713/in/photostream/ This photo suggests that ones at Snow Hill were black in GWR days too. http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1191.htm Another example of chocolate and cream in BR days at Stratford station. http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrsa1510.htm Suffice it to say there seems to have a been a certain amount of variety. There was not a single uniform style that was rigidly adhered to. If you are modelling a fictional location then simply choose whichever of the above styles appeals to you and you should be pretty safe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2011 The one at Witney is almost certainly faded cream - a good rendition of the colour in that state as I recall it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 "Great Western Way" says for Water Cranes on station platforms the bottom 5' in Dark stone with the rest in Mid stone. After 1927 bottom 5'-6" painted black. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Some had a wavy top to the lower WR brown section. Lots of variations depending who painted them. The generally available GWR light and dark stone shades are not very typical of the actual colours, which were mixed on the spot by the painter and varied tremendously, depending on how carefully he worked. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted October 14, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2011 All - thanks very much. Interesting to see the Stratford crane all sooty from the fire devil, but no devil to be seen - must have been removed when not required. Late GWR for me so I'm going for bottom 6" black, then dark Stone with the wavy top, and the remainder in Lt Stone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 All - thanks very much. Interesting to see the Stratford crane all sooty from the fire devil, but no devil to be seen - must have been removed when not required. Possibly although the soot may have come from the locos themselves. For most tank engines the filler caps are not far from the funnel. Depending where it was parked it was probable that a fair amount of soot would have got onto anything vaguely above the loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 The light and dark stone shades were mixed by adding handfuls of pigment (Burnt Sienna IIRC) into white lead. The possibilities of variation were thus endless. Then add to this the effects of weathering and the final result is rather hard to predict. I suspect the white bottom section in 1947, mentioned above, is a relic of the black out. Wartime (and after) produced some odd colour schemes due to shortages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 The light and dark stone shades were mixed by adding handfuls of pigment (Burnt Sienna IIRC) into white lead. The possibilities of variation were thus endless. Then add to this the effects of weathering and the final result is rather hard to predict. I suspect the white bottom section in 1947, mentioned above, is a relic of the black out. Wartime (and after) produced some odd colour schemes due to shortages. My understanding is that the pigment added to the white led was red iron oxide though I can't at this moment quote chapter & verse. Perhaps we should have an emoticon for "memory alert"! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted October 18, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 18, 2011 The Mike's Models ones come with paining instructions which advise that the devil needs to be painted "LMS Grey" and then rusted a bit. I though this a little odd, until I realised that it was pointless painting these in reality - they would have gotten too hot for paint to stay stuck to, and slowly rusted away, much like the dustbin braziers people use to burn leaves in their gardens. Grey and rusty they shall be then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I have been browsing my albums and I have noticed something. Water cranes in non-public areas (out by engine sheds etc) seem to have generally been painted black in WR/BR days while those on platforms seem to have been chocolate and cream. I guess it makes sense that those seen by the public would be more spruced-up than those where only staff went. As an aside, there is a nice clip here of Temple Meads in the mid 60s. The cranes on the platforms are choc and cream here. One other suprise was Hereford Castle in the summer of 1965 still in nice external condition just months before the end of steam on the WR. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOMB37MNkWo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2011 I have been browsing my albums and I have noticed something. Water cranes in non-public areas (out by engine sheds etc) seem to have generally been painted black in WR/BR days while those on platforms seem to have been chocolate and cream. I guess it makes sense that those seen by the public would be more spruced-up than those where only staff went. I'm not entirely sure if that was always the case however there is a very simple explanation - the water cranes on platforms seemed usually to be painted when the station was painted, those on sheds were not necessarily done at the same time and were probably done by different painters in any case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 If you are looking for the colour at a later date here is one that survived at Exeter St. Davids until the 1980s. It stands on what was once the west end of the Down Goods Avoiding line, but actually used as part of the stabling point by that time. Pictured 8th May 1980, it survived for some time after that I believe. Locos 25155, 46015 and 33006. Enlarged view cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2011 There was still one up on the North & West Line (Church Stretton I think) in 1992! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted October 28, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2011 I have just gone through all of the photos again. Interesting to note that there are the cranked "platform type" ones which are gground mounted, and vice versa. And the Snow Hill Photo kindly posted by Karhedron, shows one of each type on platforms adjacent to each other. So water cranes really are "anything goes". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 A rather strange cranked GWR water crane at Aylesbury in this case it was painted olive green with three white bands! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted November 1, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2011 What is that behind the Aylesbury crane? Love the sloping telegraph pole! The long support cable seems to be redundant by the look of the slack in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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