Modern image signalling advice

[Happy Hippo]

Beast,

 

Thank you for the explanation. I keep learning all the time.

 

I'd just been looking at Brian's (br2975) Cold Blow Lane, where he had a very similar situation with a yard off a single line, but no run around facilities and I could see a similar type of signalling situation being required.

 

Assuming the Op has a just a set of sidings, how would the train crew know whey were past the entrance to the yard if they have a very long train to set back? (I'm thinking of visibility issues here) Would there be some form of limit of shunt board somewhere on the main?

 

I appreciate that on a model of this size it would be off scene. but I'm suddenly getting more drawn into modern railway operation.

 

Certainly with rail operations it is a case of the more I learn the less I know!!

 

Regards

 

Richard

[Happy Hippo]

Mike ,

 

Thank you for the snippet on TCB operation.

 

I think what has confused me is the use of the calling on signal in the opposite direction.

 

I now presume that the co is used purely to call the train past the signal and up to the next sub in the block.

 

And it probably wouldn't be used when going from right to left because there is there is no sub, and cannot call on because there is no sub before the next block signal.

 

Regards

 

Richard

[beast66606]

Assuming the Op has a just a set of sidings, how would the train crew know whey were past the entrance to the yard if they have a very long train to set back? (I'm thinking of visibility issues here) Would there be some form of limit of shunt board somewhere on the main?

 

Modern locos, such as 66s have the length of the train programmed into their computer and the driver can use this to get the loco to tell him when it's passed a given point, press a button when passing the yard, a buzzer sounds when the tail is clear.

 

Or they could use a guard on the ground.

[PaulRhB]

I know the drivers tend to consider the length computer a guide and rely on the shunter.

You don't necessarily need a run round in the yard either here's a couple of alternatives.

1 quidhampton clay sidings.

The train arrives in the down direction and pushes it's train back into the yard. The train loco then pulled back leaving the wagons at the stop block and drops back onto loaded wagons in the headshunt. The works shunter comes out couples to the empties and draws them into the plant. The loaded train draws forward from the headshunt to the stop blocks. It reverses out onto the main and departs in the up direction.

2 Wool sand train

The train passes through in the down direction and runs round at Dorchester several miles further on. Returning on the up line it gets the main aspect from the station into the block section. Drawing past the signal and siding points it then reverses into the siding detaches half the train, draws forward again, (still fouling the main line), and drops the remaining wagons into the second siding. The loco may either stay or then depart and return later to collect the train.

Run rounds are possible at Wool but foul the main road barriers for a long time which caused problems so it is only done if Dorchester can't be used.

Another interesting point is the loader checks the wagons are empty by standing on the station footbridge, avoids overloading

[The Stationmaster]

Mike ,

 

Thank you for the snippet on TCB operation.

 

I think what has confused me is the use of the calling on signal in the opposite direction.

 

I now presume that the co is used purely to call the train past the signal and up to the next sub in the block.

 

And it probably wouldn't be used when going from right to left because there is there is no sub, and cannot call on because there is no sub before the next block signal.

 

Regards

 

Richard

Basically correct Richard.

I think it helps to sort the terminology so don't confuse it with a 'Calling On' signal in semaphore signalling - the meaning in this circumstance is not the same hence I try to stick to using the term 'subsidiary' or 'sub' (although in semaphore signalling a 'Calling On' signal is also a subsidiary - don't worry, it all makes sense when you start from the right place).

[The Stationmaster]

Assuming the Op has a just a set of sidings, how would the train crew know whey were past the entrance to the yard if they have a very long train to set back? (I'm thinking of visibility issues here) Would there be some form of limit of shunt board somewhere on the main?

Richard

Richard you've had a number of answers but not the most basic one so I'll join in. The use of the Guard, or a Shunter, on the ground is the most obvious and basic and has been mentioned - he simply handsignals the Driver when to stop or nowadays where sighting is poor uses a back-t-o-back radio to convey the message.

 

However the simplest answer is the oldest one - the Driver knows how long his train is and from his Road Knowledge and past experience will know where to stop trains of different lengths without even bothering to take note of a handsignal to stop. In that respect it is exactly the same as stopping a passenger train at a station - the Driver knows his various marks and how the train handles and drives accordingly. The critical bit is not to set back without a clear signal to do so from whoever is in charge of the movement on the ground. All good old-fashioned basic railway work which is often lost sight of or overlooked in this day and age as forests of marker boards appear for this, that, and everything else (although with the amount of lineside features hidden by overgrown vegetation markers might not always be a bad idea ).

 

And you're not the only one who asks such questions so don't worry about needing to learn; when we shut the Speedlink network a new train was introduced to - among many other things - pick up the Taunton Cider wagons and I was asked at the Staff Consultation meeting how this would be done. I really couldn't understand a bunch of railwaymen asking such a basic question and I think the chap who had to ask it on their behalf probably thought the same. Anyway I rattled off the reply move-by-move which resulted in more than a few chuckles until the person who had asked the question turned round and asked those who had brought up the subject at the staff side meeting if it (I) had answered their query. A rather slow West Country voice came back saying 'I hope he doesn't expect us to do it that quick?' at which the entire meeting descended into laughter (which was not aimed at me of course). Odd to relate but that move involved the equivalent of a train arriving from what would be the the right in this thread.

[Happy Hippo]

Jimmer,

 

Just a quick note to say sorry for hijacking your thread.

 

I used to PM a lot of questions, and then found someone else asked the same on the thread, so now I just ask on the relevant thread so we can all benefit from my ignorance.

 

Regards

 

Richard

[jimmer]

Jimmer,

 

Just a quick note to say sorry for hijacking your thread.

 

I used to PM a lot of questions, and then found someone else asked the same on the thread, so now I just ask on the relevant thread so we can all benefit from my ignorance.

 

Regards

 

Richard

 

Not a problem, there is nothing wrong with good healthy debate. I think that this is what makes this forum so great. There is so much knowledge out there and there is always something new to learn. Thank you all for your help and advice.

[br2975]

Can I just thank those involved here, as this answers my question posed elsewhere, after this debate had concluded.

.

Perhaps I should read other threads on the subject in future - before posting !

.

Brian R

[The Stationmaster]

Can I just thank those involved here, as this answers my question posed elsewhere, after this debate had concluded.

Perhaps I should read other threads on the subject in future - before posting !

Brian R

Brian,

If you do want signals (instead of just an anonymous looking ground frame) you will I hope have found the correct answer for 'Southern style' looking at the comments from PaulRhB - as this thread show (in considerable diversity!) there is more than one way of skinning this particular cat.

[beast66606]

Can I just thank those involved here, as this answers my question posed elsewhere, after this debate had concluded.

.

Perhaps I should read other threads on the subject in future - before posting !

.

Brian R

 

We don't mind questions, it's (normally) not as simple as (for example) "Is 66097 still in EWS livery?" where the answer is a simple "No!", as Mike (StationMaster) says we like to skin our cats several ways.