Satan's Goldfish Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I'm hoping this thread motivates me into getting trains running sooner! First some background: When i was a lad, my grandparents took me to an exhibition in Gt Yarmouth and there was a large circular N gauge layout there depicting a certain stretch of mainline along the south coast at the bottom of some cliffs. Some of you probably know the one, but the name escapes me now. That layout has imprinted itself in my memory (apart from it's name) as one of my most favoritest layouts i've ever seen at an exhibition and the sort of thing i'd want out of my own layout. Fast forward a few years and i have mish mash collections of various gauges and locations of model trains all the way from Z to G, and hundreds of unstarted and uncompleted layout ideas to go with them. Life and work getting in the way meant that the train collections increased and gathered dust and haven't a layout to run on. One of my longer running ideas was for a large anonomous location European N gauge on various levels including high speed lines for Euro Star, TGV, ICE, etc in an octagonal shape for all round viewing to try and create something as entertaining as the N that i remember. Couple of problems with that plan though, all my N gauge is British, American, and Australian, and lack of space, time, and money to build the monster that's in my head. Most layout ideas i enjoy drawing down, but that's one i've not attempted. As my user name suggests, my other passion is fish. And not small gentle ones. A change in circumstances saw the taking down of my large tropical pond which left me with lots of wood lying around, so i thought sod it, i may as well start building the huge octagon! Too much exposure to RMweb has seen my collection of 1980-1995 British OO growing though rather than European N, so I have boards, I have OO gauge, and I have no idea what to build. I think i can scrap the European idea at this point! And this is where you guys come in. Ideas please! I have an old Hammet and Morgan 'Duet' so needs to be 2 tracks and DC. Preferably needs to be flat as most of the time it'll be in pieces on end in the garage as it's too big to put up in the house. And what is the simpilest quickest way to do connections over board joints? My ideas either get too complicated for me to ever be able to build, or can't get beyond just a 2 track mainline all the way round.....which is a bit dull really. So here's what i've got so far: The flat boards themselves are 19mm mdf. 18 inches wide, inner length is 3ft and outer length is near as makes no difference 4ft 2inches. They're fairly rigid as they are, but heavy, their previous job saw them holding 4 tonnes of water and they've not suffered for it. This was the initial proof of concept, it's supported on stanley saw horses which puts them at child height. tounges were added to the underside to give them more of a footprint on the saw horses and to support each other if the legs get knocked. Another useful effect from these is they keep the boards aligned (but not held together) and here we are on the legs with tounges! Unsuccesful attempts for inspiration with trains on. Moved house, first attempt at building the entire 'layout' to see if they were cut to the right angle...... .........and they were! Next task that needs completing is painting the boards to protect them......and then, i don't know! Your inputs please! I've been collecting my OO to maximum lengths of 10ft for passenger trains (Loco + 9 Carriages) and 13ft for freight (2xLoco + 12 freightliner/24mgr etc) but that seems a bit excesively long for these boards. The 'Dutch' 37 and 16 tankers work out at about 8ft, I don't have an issue with running at reduced lengths but i would like to keep the option of having a full 13ft freight running on occasion. Thoughts on anything above? Cheers SG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I know the layout you mean - it was a group in Essex, possibly the N Gauge area group that used to meet in South Woodham Ferrers, or the Basildon MRC. I briefly dabbled with the idea of an octagonal layout some years ago when I had a suitable spare room but my woodworking skills were second to most, and it never got any further than the top boards cut to size with angles, and laid together on the floor. I'd have thought that track crossing the joins would be no different than if the boards were straight, if you used the standard copperclad method, soldered the rails and cut with a minidrill/slitting disc. I do all my planning in XTrackCAD, you could easily draw in where the joins go and make sure you don't have points that need cutting in half (just like with normal boards). I'd guess you'll be using a lot of curved points; if you want to keep the long sweeping curves you will probably be looking at the long radius straight points or even looking at building your own if necessary. I think it'll be a cracking project if you can come up with a suitable track plan - in all honesty a simple double track with a station, a branch and a couple of sidings might be all you need as the novelty of an octagonal layout that gives you scenic ability on about 3/4 of the layout without tight curves, and the "long train sweeping through open countryside" look that you obviuosly want, might be sufficient. Long runs like that are crying out for DCC sound too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SXHALL Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Very interested in this one! I have a concept that I want to build and it too uses an Octagon with 360 degree viewing around the outside. I worked my requirement to be approx an 8' diameter in the centre with boards about 18-24" wide. Only exception being that i was going to round the inner and outers of the boards too. Very keen to see what you come up with to fill your space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 Well it worked, motivated me into starting to paint them today. Gonna be an interesting selection of colours....... Cheers for the replies guys. I do enjoy dabbling in XTrackCAD and have the boards drawn down for this on there. Might try limiting myself to just curved points and see how i get on. Going further into my query about crossing board joints, in the interest of getting things running quickly, is using a piece of set track over joints for the time being an option or is there issues with this? Seems a bit silly to put effort into proper crossing joints at this point when i can see the plan getting altered a number of times as it's built before i'm happy. I've always liked the layout of Ely so tried drawing something on those lines down, but it soon uses up all the space available. If i made a list of everything i'd like then it'd never fit and wouldn't be simple! One of the intial ideas when i was thinking of using these boards for N was using the flat bases for the storage yard with the scenic parts above them, and creating a curve around the front so it was a giant circle and give more width on the scenic parts...... but that's too much like hard work when i just want to get trains running. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 but that's too much like hard work when i just want to get trains running. Perhaps an option then is to work out roughly where you want your main features, put in some points and crossovers etc but just lay the main running lines round, and the centre roads of your fiddle yard (again with points at either end for future expansion) and then you can at least get a rough idea of how it all looks - and, of course, you have the benefit of being able to run trains continuously. Then, when you have the time/money/inclination to get on with the rest of your plan, you can start tracklaying the rest, knowing that you still have something continuous to 'play with'. Provided you plan properly, for example you want three platform sides and a bay platform, a small shed that goes from the mainline to the outer side of the layout with appropriate crossover, and an industry of some sort on the inside of the layout, again with appropriate crossovers, and a branch over there that goes off somewhere, then the actual 'details' can be finalised later, once you've got your 10 coach expresses belting round and you've got an idea of quite what you want to have and where you want to have it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 Attempting to keep simple planning continues. Amazing how quickly boards that look quite large can fill up. What are peoples thoughts on the use of settrack points off of the main running lines? (can't interupt those big sweeping curves now can we!) I have an idea for a mostly uninterupted mainline doing a big 'circle' around the outside with sidings and an island platform station on the inside but that would mean dropping to second radius curves and turnouts for these inner 'operational' areas. Planning includes several visual details i like that probably wouldn't normally be seen prototypically together! Planning scribbling is below (hopefully) with different thoughts on track types and orientations. I've never tried building my own track so sticking to what i know which is Hornby set track and peco streamline. Going around clockwise from the bottom there's obviously 2 track main line with different configurations of how to lay the track on each board to see visually which will work best. I have enough curves to match Hornby Y turnouts to make a complete circle so using those alot for a refernce to smooth curves on mainline. Far left has a main line junction from Hornby set track turnouts and diamond crossing, the second radius curves of the set track turnouts heading off the main line. This leads across a smaller junction which may represent a branch line but will probably just turn into engine/train stabling sidings. Next the inner lines widens for the Island platform, which can probably quickly be rustled up from Hornby platform bits as they are second radius curves on the inside. To the outside of this before the 'mainline' i've drawn in an extra unconnected line as toying with the idea of making the outer line at this point a long freight passing loop for the clockwise direction and bringing the main running lines in a bit towards the station. If the station's long enough to hold 9' of train then an outer loop here would be able to hold 12' of train, plus clockwise can only access one platform loop where as anti-clockwise has more options. Far right of the plan has the station lines joining back onto the anti-clockwise running line with a trailing crossover to the clockwise line. Used Peco Streamline curved points here to make it flow. Thoughts? Oct.xtc Not sure if that worked......here's screen shots! sorry it's split. SG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinW Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 It's interesting to see you come up with that style of baseboard design, saw a layout at Scaleforum in September, Blackston Jcn, use exactly the same and loved the way they had sweeping curves on it. Now thinking about using it for a possible club layout. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devondynosoar118 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Setrack points are usually a temporary solution at best, why not try making some of the track? If you do copper clad it could be similar in price plus if you can do xtracad you have an advantage, lots of good how to stuff on here, look at Eastwood Town. Very interesting concept, look forward to how it develops. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I have an old Hammet and Morgan 'Duet' so needs to be 2 tracks and DC. So do I! and have been warned that it may not be suitable for modern mechanisms. Can I suggest asking advice before proceeding further. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artizen Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I think it would look better and probably a tad more prototypical if there was less of the straight, curve, straight, curve, straight, curve, straight, curve, etc. Perhaps try a simple giant circle in the software and then fiddle with it at about three locations for things like sidings, stations and branch line? Just throwing my hat in the ring as it were. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 Hurray! i have a working computer again! Unfortunately all my xtrackcad-ness is on the broken one........... Thanks for the replies guys and words of support, helps keep me motivated! Got a small old N gauge layout in the garage which i'm supposed to be resurrecting for the kids for Christmas which will probably start eating into the time for this for a couple of weeks. But i'll keep on planning! It's interesting to see you come up with that style of baseboard design, saw a layout at Scaleforum in September, Blackston Jcn, use exactly the same and loved the way they had sweeping curves on it. Now thinking about using it for a possible club layout. Colin Saw a similar style one when I was down at a show at Colchester visiting the Warren Lane Boys and Girls at the end of last month. That was another of my motivations to get this going! That layout went around the whole circle twice and some of my earlier xtrackcad designs were trying to do similar but it was just getting too complicated. Setrack points are usually a temporary solution at best, why not try making some of the track? If you do copper clad it could be similar in price plus if you can do xtracad you have an advantage, lots of good how to stuff on here, look at Eastwood Town. Very interesting concept, look forward to how it develops. I do enjoy atching up with Eastwood Town, Gordon does some amazing work there. Unfortunately i don't have the time or steady enough hand to attempt to recreate the amazing track work he produces, although being able to custom build curved turnouts and crossing for this would be useful! I'll try and draw any set track use right to the inside of the boards where it'll just be storage. I have an old Hammet and Morgan 'Duet' so needs to be 2 tracks and DC. So do I! and have been warned that it may not be suitable for modern mechanisms. Can I suggest asking advice before proceeding further. Ed All my stock is 90's vintage at the newest so I shouldn't have issues with that however I will keep an eye out for problems. I knocked up a test plank a few months ago to make sure they all worked and the HM was used for that and all was well. Were you given a reason as to why it wasn't suitable for modern mechanisms? I think it would look better and probably a tad more prototypical if there was less of the straight, curve, straight, curve, straight, curve, straight, curve, etc. Perhaps try a simple giant circle in the software and then fiddle with it at about three locations for things like sidings, stations and branch line? Just throwing my hat in the ring as it were. Point noted and being taken onboard for a redraw when my computer is behaving again. Thinking a slightly reworked Wymondham might cover all the bases i'm after (passing loop, sidings, simple layout, etc) but with the passing loop opposite the sidings rather than the station and not crossing from one running line to the other. But need to start drawing it down to see if it will work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 Any advances? Still no x-track to see if it'll work on a curve (hopefully that should be fixed by the end of today). All turnouts would be streamline curved and there's only 8 so it's not too complicated. The modelled appearance would be that of a rationalised through station and yard so the loco stabling sidings would be the old bay platform area. Apart from the turnout at the far end of the outside passing loop all points could fit onto 2 boards for ease of operations. If the train storage sidings are 8'-9' long then the outer loop would be closer to 12' long covering the same area so i still have longer train options. SG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 Really must brave the cold and get on with painting boards. Any thoughts on this plan? As above but with the options of a third siding and a 'branch' leading to a hidden area at the bottom acting as a single track fiddle yard. I think i may be able to tweak the main area of turnouts to gain a little more space else where on the layout. SG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 Still alive! Had some upgrades done to my computer and lost all the plans i was working on but had what i would like the final result to be pretty much sorted. Essentially, it's the same as above but the 'hidden' branch from the bottom of the station will become 2 tracks behind the back scene and continue around to join the end of 2 of the sidings which will also be mostly behind a back scene to create a fiddle yard. Visually, one end will appear to be a branch dissapearing under a viaduct, and the other end will look like the entry to longer sidings. Length wise it should allow 2 engines and 12 container flats at a squeeze. The pointwork entering the yard and for the bay platform/loco stabling is jiggled slightly to move the station closer to the top of the plan freeing up space on other boards. The station will hopefully be long enough for stopping services of a 37 and 4 mk2s. HSTs and loco hauled express services will just have to go around really quickly with nowhere to stop! Eventually if it ever gets far enough i'd like overhead wires on the main line as I have a growing collection of 86s and 90s. But that's dreaming before i start. I'll get the new design drawn up and on here. 4 boards are painted ready for track, just waiting for nicer temperatures and time off work to do the other 4.... oh and to finish getting the n gauge working for the kids for Christmas! SG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 As Implied! Oct Initial.xtc Thoughts or suggestions? SG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Just to prove i'm not 100% procrastinating, been distracted getting this ready for the kids for Christmas: It was originally built by my grandad when my brother and I were young, it's been gathering dust on the rafters in my dad's workshop for the last few years, and at one point before that my brother had visions of expansion for it so some track work has been altered. So a lot of resurrection work has been required. All of the track is minitrix set track apart from a short stretch of peco streamline at the front and bizarely a peco 009 electrofrog turnout where a minitrix one has been removed and the track realigned at some point in it's past. A long siding around the back could still do with returning to it's former length and there's a couple of buffers missing. The turnouts are all old and rusty enough to be completely self isolating so lots of wiring has had to be soldered on to get power everywhere, apart from the rear siding which i'm leaving until it's all been relayed. The choc-block by the controller will be replaced by switches for all the different sections at a later date but the aim here was to just get something running for the children. The trains shown work all the way around. Out of all the old N scale loco's knocking around, they were the only 2 showing any life. The 08 belts around really well, the kettle (sorry, don't know my steam engine numbers) is slow but smooth and getting better with each use, it's vintage 1970s so i'm just happy it works at all! The scenery is....um.......interesting! There's obviously some buildings missing, most of the buildings look european anyway, and the roads go nowhere. But if the kids get into it then i'll let them worry about that, i'm sure they'll have ideas! Right, that's enough of an N diversion, back to tho octagon soon....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted December 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 7, 2011 Can't really tell but the 'kettle' looks like an Ivatt 2-6-0. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Thanks for the clarrification on the kettle, sounds about right. Ok, i'm dangerously close to actually laying track on the octagon (once i've finished relaying the N for the kids as they decided they wanted a track each and a figure 8 in the middle.....) all the boards are painted, i have board ready for backscene to fit too. However, i've looked at my plan and as fun to operate as it would be with the whole layout made up, realistically i can only have 3 boards up in the house at once to 'play' with. So i've revised the idea slightly to be a 3 board 'shunting plank' with all the scenic bits and point work, and the other 5 boards open line all the way round to make it a loop when the weather's nice and it can be put up outside. This is the 'shunting plank'. The platform would be from old Hornby bits which means an unfortunate second radius curve at the back there, but money is very tight so i've got to work with what i've got. As a simple end to end for messing about with i think it works ok. The station would be good for DMUs or a couple of carriages with other engines and wagons stabled on the rest. If SWMBO isn't looking i could probably even move a chair to get a 4th board up as a fiddle yard at the opposite end to the station! This is obviously the whole thing. Plenty of scope for long sweeping trains going round on the outer pair of tracks at least. The thicker lines at the ends of the 3 'shunting plank' boards represent back scenes on the ends of those boards. Operationally, i don't know if it may be a bit dull or awkward. I've drawn on a possible facing crossover on the inner lines at the bottom before it gets back to the scenic boards that might help operationally. Also a pair of sidings on the outside on the scenic bit that would add to the operationalness (is that a word?) while it's a s a whole octagon, obviously the rest of the tracks would need shifting in a bit with those added. As i say, dangerously close to starting work on laying track, next post may have pictures of something up! Any thoughts? SG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1X Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Carnot wait to see more of this !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Forgot to add, It'd probably be 'something-or-other Junction' with this design, the scenic bit in full octagon mode would be 2 double tracks joining at an island platform junction station, most of the station off scene so I can get away with longer trains in it than there's space for in 'plank' mode. Long term, possibly ohle on the outer lines on the scenic bit so my 86s and 90s don't need to be dragged when i want to give them a run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artizen Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 On the scenic loop, how close are the tracks to the edge of the board? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 They're quite close in those plans, but it's all adjustable to bring it in a bit. I went for as wide as possible for a bigger sweep round the outside but it'll probably be brought in when construction starts. When i get a chance, i'm going to try and mirror image the plan i think but leave the station in the same place, probably be the same day i have time to puit boards up and play with it full size! So the 2 facing crossing will be on the triple track bit in front of the signal box and trailing crossings will be on each double track line. Hopefully that will mean all point work will be on the 3 boards rather than the possibility of one not being as it is at the moment to simplify wiring. Also may squeeze those pair of sidings in properly too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 For anyone vaguely interested, this thread isn't quite dead. Boards are all painted, N gauge is tinkered with, my OO stock list keeps slowly growing, and i'm now ignoring all my previous efforts at planning a layout. I'm not the best at modelling, my budget is low. What may seem a simple track plan has been enough to put me off starting. But then i read and realised that the majority of Britains railway lines are just a pair of lines running through country side, and that is simple enough for me to achieve and then sit back and watch. So i'm going to try and re-launch myself with the now simple 'Weekend Drags' which to start with will be a simple 2 track secondary line going all the way round the octagon through plain country side. I like my growing collection of 86s and 90s but the thought of building catenary discourages me so i'm going with a 'weekend engineering on a nearby mainline causing diverted dragged AC services to run on the line' theme. When work and SWMBO give me time, i'm gonna start! SG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devondynosoar118 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Glad to see it back. Your original plan is mostly 4 tracks going through the countryside, not really any different to laying two. Might I suggest taking your favourite section of the plan and building that first to boost morale? Catenary can be added after everything else anyway, so long as you leave a little space for it. I think your original plan was great, would be a shame not to make it. Counting it needed 10 or so sets of points and the rest was all flexi track, so not a massive expense if broken down into modular chunks, or if you use the budget flexi track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Good to hear you're persevering - it'll be worth it. I just wish I had a spare room to have something like that up permanently (SWMBO would never tolerate having to crawl under it to sit on the sofa in the middle of the living room then having to peer over the scenery to watch the TV. No sense of adventure... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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