1/76 AEC / Leyland Ergomatic Cab

[Phil R]

Hi

 

Did the Ergomatic Mercury/Mandator/Mammoth series all share the same size cab and is the EFE version to scale?

 

Looking at photos of the real thing, some seem a bit "undernourished" others look a bit more sturdy. Don't know if it's my eyes or different models.

 

Thanks

 

Phil

[Merfyn Jones]

Hi

 

Did the Ergomatic Mercury/Mandator/Mammoth series all share the same size cab and is the EFE version to scale?

 

Looking at photos of the real thing, some seem a bit "undernourished" others look a bit more sturdy. Don't know if it's my eyes or different models.

 

Thanks

 

Phil

 

 

Phil

As far as I know, the EFE cab is correct. What has to be taken into account is that some models have the cab pitched a bit higher to take into account the engine size, and wheel size and wheelarch can give differing looks.

The cab is also available from Frank Waller (RTI)

Merf.

[griffgriff]

I believe the only visible difference was the badge.

[Guest stuartp]

If you scroll through to posts 33 and 34 of this thead ...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6178-the-road-vehicles-picture-thread/page__hl__%20mammoth%20%20major__st__25

 

... Rangers kindly points out the differencebetween the AEC Ergo cab and the later Leyland Bison cab - the latter is slightly higher.

[Pennine MC]

... Rangers kindly points out the differencebetween the AEC Ergo cab and the later Leyland Bison cab - the latter is slightly higher.

 

Not only that, but you can't wash your hands in an Ergo.

 

 

 

 

 

[shipbadger]

I've never seen any proof, but as a lapsed member of the AEC society I know there was a rumour/urban myth that AECs had panels made of thinner gauge metal than Leylands. AFAIK all Ergo cabs are the same width but they can vary in height, the Marathon being the extreme, and 'bonnet' details, often to 'refresh' the appearance. The replacement T45 cab does come in differing widths; look to see how much the mudguard sticks out under the drivers door. In theory lighter trucks had narrow and heavier ones wide. My son did a number of cab swaps when working at the local coachbuilders, usually of a good cab from a rotten chassis to a rusted cab/good chassis to get one good truck; so in later life it can be muddled, for example I've seen a skip lorry on a Leyland Cruiser with the wide cab. His current employer is a haulier but also an ERF/MAN dealer and they have built a number of custom trucks (for particular jobs rather than show vehicles) from 'bits in the yard'. His last wagon was only a four wheeler but had the largest engine option, a sleeper cab and a specially cut down curtain sider. His deliveries required a quick dash to the next county followed by negotiating numerous low raiway bridges in Worcester. The sleeper cab was for comfortable lunches in lay-bys.

 

Tony Comber

[RANGERS]

 

Not only that, but you can't wash your hands in an Ergo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not strictly true, the Ergo was prone to rust so most leaked like sieves after just a few years service, didn't matter which version or who made them, they were all prettty much the same so there was never any shortage of water inside them!

 

The height difference only applied to the later Leylands with the 500 series engines which were taller. The earlier Leyland and Albions with the 400/ 600/ 680 engines had identical cabs to the AECs with only minor differences to the grilles.

[Phil R]

Many thanks for all the replies.

 

I have tried the EFE cab with slightly bigger wheels and it does look better. Stuartp your model of the tanker is superb and gives the impression of bulk to the cab which that sort of vehicle should have.

The reason for my question is that I'm trying to marry up an EFE cab with a resin bodywork and want to make sure the cab was accurate before I start cutting things about.

 

Regards

 

Phil

[PhilJ W]

It would also be an idea to get a set of TPM etched Ergo grills. A great improvement on the tampo printed ones.

[37114]

Also worth noting, Oxford are brining out an Ergo next year, although it looks like its duplicating the EFE one, as opposed to doing the slightly later, "lights in bumper Leyland only" version which would have been useful

[Phil R]

It would also be an idea to get a set of TPM etched Ergo grills. A great improvement on the tampo printed ones.

 

Good idea Phil, I bought a set when they first came out (mid-late 90s?) for future projects, just checked, they're in my box of metal bits.

 

Also worth noting, Oxford are brining out an Ergo next year, although it looks like its duplicating the EFE one, as opposed to doing the slightly later, "lights in bumper Leyland only" version which would have been useful

 

Yes it would have been, BW models also do a Mammoth, might see if they can supply the cab only. I'm a bit concerned the EFE metal will be too much for my motley collection of hand tools and skill level!

 

Cheers

 

Phil

['CHARD]

I'm a bit concerned the EFE metal will be too much for my motley collection of hand tools and skill level!

You should be okay Phil, I've hacked about several of their buses down the years, and so long as you've plenty of time and patience, they're decent raw material.

[Guest stuartp]

Stuartp your model of the tanker is superb and gives the impression of bulk to the cab which that sort of vehicle should have.

 

Ta ! The alterations to the cab are purely cosmetic - drilled out the footstep, de-seamed the cab doors, added twiddly bits etc. The cab/chassis fitment and the wheels are pure EFE original. I agree about Bernard's grill, it's stunning and was an absolute must on mine where the whole lot was painted drab green.

 

The metal on mine was certainly proof against 0.3mm drill bits, I think I broke half a dozen doing the wing mirrors. If I was to do another one I would drill all the holes 1mm then fill with superglue gell and drill that 0.3mm. Or just use the RTI cab !

 

I can't comment on the dimensional accuracy, I confess that I built the body from photos and sized it to fit the EFE 6x4 chassis.

[PhilJ W]

Mazak, which is used for diecasts comes in different grades, generally the better quality grades are harder. EFE castings are of the better quality and quite hard but can be cut and drilled.

[jcb 3c]

All the Ergo cabs were made by GKN Sankey and as far as I know were the same except for small detail . You often hear of restorers doing cab swaps with different makes.

As an aside the Ergo cab was only designed for right hand drive , which sums up the far sighted management and probably one of the reasons there is virtually no Brit truck industry now !

[PhilJ W]

All the Ergo cabs were made by GKN Sankey and as far as I know were the same except for small detail . You often hear of restorers doing cab swaps with different makes.

As an aside the Ergo cab was only designed for right hand drive , which sums up the far sighted management and probably one of the reasons there is virtually no Brit truck industry now !

There were different floor pans for each make as to begin with each company (AEC, Albion and Leyland) produced their own chassis and engines. In fact AEC wanted a cab suitable for LHD as they sold a lot of trucks in Latin America. It has long been a suspicion of mine and a few others that Leyland acquired competitors to close them down, evident by their buying of shares in their rivals, a practice dating back to the 1930's.

[Phil R]

Thanks for all the background info and advice. Off at the weekend, will give it a go and see what happens..

 

Phil

[RANGERS]

There were different floor pans for each make as to begin with each company (AEC, Albion and Leyland) produced their own chassis and engines. In fact AEC wanted a cab suitable for LHD as they sold a lot of trucks in Latin America. It has long been a suspicion of mine and a few others that Leyland acquired competitors to close them down, evident by their buying of shares in their rivals, a practice dating back to the 1930's.

 

The floorpans were different according to the model, the AEC V8s had a through cab with smaller engine intrusion than the straight six engine versions. Same went for the 0400 engined Leylands and Albions. LHD versions for AEC and Leyland were specifically designed but it's true that the chassis layout was designed around RHD and that LHD versions were very cramped for the driver.

[Catkins]

 

The floorpans were different according to the model, the AEC V8s had a through cab with smaller engine intrusion than the straight six engine versions. Same went for the 0400 engined Leylands and Albions. LHD versions for AEC and Leyland were specifically designed but it's true that the chassis layout was designed around RHD and that LHD versions were very cramped for the driver.

 

But British Leyland did do LHD Marathons, possibly produced at the AEC plant

http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/big-lorry-blog/2008/02/marathon-running-biglorryblog-has-a-scoop-picture-of-a-leyland-revival.html - 4th picture down

http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/big-lorry-blog/2010/07/mystery-scottish-marathon-on-b.html - 1st picture

http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/big-lorry-blog/assets_c/2011/01/LEYLAND%201973%20MARATHON%206x4%20011-110570.html - looks like a head hangout on the left.

http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/big-lorry-blog/assets_c/2011/01/LEYLAND%201973%20MARATHON%206x4%20009-110579.html - definitely LHD!

 

and here is a link to a slightly diferent Ergo cab - http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/big-lorry-blog/2008/06/one-of-six-built-the.html

[jcb 3c]

Yes but I personally wouldn't call a Marathon an Ergo . It was quite a big re design of the original.

[RANGERS]

Yes but I personally wouldn't call a Marathon an Ergo . It was quite a big re design of the original.

 

But British Leyland did do LHD Marathons, possibly produced at the AEC plant

http://www.roadtrans...nd-revival.html - 4th picture down

http://www.roadtrans...athon-on-b.html - 1st picture

http://www.roadtrans...011-110570.html - looks like a head hangout on the left.

http://www.roadtrans...009-110579.html - definitely LHD!

 

and here is a link to a slightly diferent Ergo cab - http://www.roadtrans...-built-the.html

 

I'd agree with JCB 3C, the Marathon cab was a completely new design which arose from the requirement for a tractor and rigid capable of taking on the likes of Volvo and Scania in the emerging long haul market. It was an AEC led project and the main power units came from the Leyland L12 and TL12 range, in reality a re-engineered AEC AV760. It's widely regarded as being the last AEC.

 

The cab was mounted mostly above the engine which accounted for the much higher datum line, there was little engine intrusion into the cab itself so LHD drive was a much better proposition.

 

It was built initially at Southall before production finished there in 1979. It was also initially a camel of a thing, well engineered but poorly built from substandard materials with appalling reliability. Only with Marathon 2 did it start to redeem itself but by that stage the damage was done, the replacement T45 range was already up and running and replaced the Marathon by 1982.

 

Conversion of a standard Ergo to a Marathon looks pretty well impossible, there's no commonality of parts at all. Even the windscreen is different, wider and deeper, even though it looks very similar.

[dinkyme]

Here a picture of Oxford Diecast model due out soon

[George Woodcock]

Hello

 

LHD Marathons painted in all over white ran from BRS at Northampton to Iran in the 1970s. They had a catchy name for this service but I can't remember what it was now. In the early to mid 70s they also used ergomatic cabbed Leylands to go to Italy. The company I worked for used ERFs for the same purpose. They had fold down beds hinged on the back wall of the very narrow cabs. No sleeper cabs in those days for most people though ironically we had a 1969 reg F88 Volvo that never left the country. From 1974 the ERFs were replaced with F88s, firstly the 240bhp version with the small grille and then from 1975 the 290bhp version with the wider grille. As I remember them neither seemed to be fitted with brakes because they were almost impossible to stop especially when travelling solo.

 

Cheers

 

George

 

 

[RANGERS]

Hello

 

LHD Marathons painted in all over white ran from BRS at Northampton to Iran in the 1970s. They had a catchy name for this service but I can't remember what it was now. In the early to mid 70s they also used ergomatic cabbed Leylands to go to Italy. The company I worked for used ERFs for the same purpose. They had fold down beds hinged on the back wall of the very narrow cabs. No sleeper cabs in those days for most people though ironically we had a 1969 reg F88 Volvo that never left the country. From 1974 the ERFs were replaced with F88s, firstly the 240bhp version with the small grille and then from 1975 the 290bhp version with the wider grille. As I remember them neither seemed to be fitted with brakes because they were almost impossible to stop especially when travelling solo.

 

Cheers

 

George

 

BRS Overland was the Iranian operation, quite a haul in those days and even more so with the vagaries of the Mk 1 Marathon which was a fantastic job creation scheme for the motor industry. One of the Marathons is preserved with a matching tilt trailer.

 

I was a big fan of the F88, the steering took a bit of getting used to, light, positive and nothing like a lorry should be, very unnerving for anyone weaned on a diet of ERFs I'd imagine. I don't remember the brakes being any worse than the average Leyland but with 290bhp on tap, they'd have compared with the TL12, Cummins and Rolls' engined Leylands and they would have taken a took a bit of stopping without the benefit of trailer brakes.

[Arthur]

I think the poor braking on solo tractor units was down to the settings on the load sensing brake valves then being fitted to the more modern units.

 

Around 1980 I remember taking out a Merc 1628 tractor unit to go and collect a trailer. The words of the transport manager as I left " ....and watch the $%X&ing brakes, they're bobbins without a trailer" returned to me as I sailed, seemingly brakeless, down the, fortunately very long, slip road off the M62 to the A56. The braking effect was minimal yet later, returning with a loaded trailer, the braking was fine.