Bacup - Mills in the hills

[lmsforever]

Ballasting is a pain in the bum ,your layouts looking good ,type bacup coconuters into your pc and you can watch u tube excerpts of them doing their dances they have been around since before the first world war I think.(NOT THE SAME DANCERS)

[mark axlecounter]

you are right they have been around since the 1800 acording to my folks. someone tried to stop this a couple of years ago the same time around when a jam company stop doing them bagdes

Edited June 8, 2012 by axelcounter

[Jason T]

The main question on my (and others, I'm sure) mind Mark, is what had you done to your head in your Avatar pic to deserve that bandage, or is it the crappest turban ever? Mine was taken in Les Gets a few years ago on an insanely drunk night when the bar staff kept giving us free cocktails. I call the photo 'one for the ladies'

Edited June 9, 2012 by Sandside

[Physicsman]

The main question on my (and others, I'm sure) mind Mark, is what had you done to your head in your Avatar pic to deserve that bandage, or is it the crappest turban ever? Mine was taken in Les Gets a few years ago on an insanely drunk night when the bar staff kept giving us free cocktails. I call the photo 'one for the ladies'

 

Jason, I think the answer's simple...Either, axelcounter couldn't stand the tedium of ballasting any longer and just had to bang his head on the wall, or he is a paid-up member of the Britannia Coconut Dancers and suffered head damage during an energetic performance!

 

Apologies, no offence intended and very poor (!!) humour, just couldn't resist!

 

Btw, your ballasting looks good. I must admit, I've never strayed from the tried-and-trusted PVA method. What ballast are you using - type and grade? Though I model 00, I've concluded N gauge ballast is best for me. Woodland Scenics Grey Blend. I'll be interested in your comments.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jeff

[Jason T]

Hi Jeff,

 

I have gone for 2mm ballast as I agree that the 4mm stuff just looks a bit large although I have to admit that I have never actually measured any real ballast and compared it against the measurements of the stuff we modellers use to work out which is closer to scale (I bet someone has though....).

 

I use Carrs 2mm Light Grey (although it seems pretty dark to me), code C1152, for the main running lines, and Carrs Ash ballast, code C1180, for the sidings, etc. Glued down with diluted Copydex, painted in rather than dripped on. There is still a pleasing amount of flexibility to the whole ballasted area, which is what I was hoping to achieve. The below pic is pre-tidying up (and I am now adding a second layer of ash ballast as I've looked at a few photos and the carriage siding at Bacup appears to be set into ash ballast up to sleeper height, rather than the sleepers protruding). Hopefully this will show the size of both the ballast and ash ballast to good effect.

 

 

Carrs (C&L) website is http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=58#ballast, handily linked directly to the ballast page.

[Physicsman]

Thanks for the info. Jason. I'm pretty sure someone will have done extensive research on ballast size - I seem to recall the Woodland Scenics catalogue used to have some info on this. Quite agree about the N gauge stuff - 00 grade looks like mini-boulders, though I have to admit I used the latter on my last layout! You learn by experience!

 

Your last photo looks good - nice and neat.

 

Re. your song comment on your blog, surely Englebert Humperdinck's Eurovision entry has to be the song of the year! Lol.

 

Jeff

[mark axlecounter]

the pach on my head is when i was a tech for vauxhall and i had an ageument with a vectra gearbox the thing fell on my head

and if you look close you can see the blood went all over the white wall

that was about 6 years ago

and i am not any good with ballasting ether lol

by the way jason you must have some skill building your buildings not like me but it is looking really good

Edited June 10, 2012 by axelcounter

[Jason T]

Cheers Mark. At the end of the day, the buildings are just boxes and there is nothing too difficult with any of them; patience and determination to get them looking something like the real thing are the key drivers for me.

 

Anyway, although I do now have the materials I need to carry on with the new mill (Farholme Mill), I have instead been painting track. Being full of cold still, I couldn't get out biking yesterday so instead drove a silly distance to the Chatham show where, amongst other things, I picked up a tin of Precision Track Colour. At first, I thought it was (once again) a bit orange but rather than go off what I thought it should look like, I looked in various books with colour photos and it actually doesn't seem too far off so I have made a start. If it ends up looking too bright, I'll darken it up at a later stage.

 

When I took photos with the flash on, it looked like an old advert for Tango but without flash (and in real life), it looks okay to me but I would value the opinion of others.

 

 

 

Edit: I thought I'd got every last piece of stray ballast but the close up shows two pieces I missed. Getting obsessed? Maybe.......

Edited June 11, 2012 by Sandside

[Andy C]

For what its worth Jason I always use it neat as i think it matches the colour of rusty rails quite nicely. I darken it where there has been applications of grease / oil etc eg around switchblades / tie bars etc but other than that it looks pretty much OK to me.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Andy C

[Jason T]

Cheers Andy; I think my concern came from the photos I took with the flash on (which I didn't even bother to post up). In the past, on the advice of someone I took to be a serious modeller, I just sprayed the track, sleepers, etc., with Sleeper Grime and left it at that. As I also used brown ballast (for some odd reason), it ended up looking like a muddy road with a couple of weird parallel shiny lines down the middle. I'm trying to take a lot more care this time and hence me asking the question (along with loads of other daft queries).

[DavidLong]

I'm pretty sure someone will have done extensive research on ballast size - I seem to recall the Woodland Scenics catalogue used to have some info on this. Quite agree about the N gauge stuff - 00 grade looks like mini-boulders, though I have to admit I used the latter on my last layout! You learn by experience!

 

Jeff

 

These comments about using 2mm ballast in 4mm applications are so common it makes me wonder a] does anyone buy ballast that is marked for 4mm use and b] if no-one does then why do manufacturers go on making it. Also if 4 millers are using 2mm ballast then what are we 2 millers supposed to use?

One of life's mysteries I guess.

 

David

 

PS Enjoying the thread, Jason

Edited June 11, 2012 by DavidLong

[Jason T]

Ash ballast? I presume that 4mm ballast is for 7mm modellers

[Physicsman]

These comments about using 2mm ballast in 4mm applications are so common it makes me wonder a] does anyone buy ballast that is marked for 4mm use and b] if no-one does then why do manufacturers go on making it. Also if 4 millers are using 2mm ballast then what are we 2 millers supposed to use?

One of life's mysteries I guess.

 

David

 

PS Enjoying the thread, Jason

 

That is a good question David. I wonder if anyone will come up with an answer? 2mm stuff is fine enough - so maybe N-gaugers just use dust?

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Jason, your post of 15.11 today shows the ballasting to be well done, even and, what-the-hell, a few stray bits of ballast make it more realistic, rather than less!

 

I also think your second picture confirms how 2mm ballast is more appropriate for 00 - rather than the mini-boulders that go under the name of "00 gauge".

 

I also agree that the photos can be mis-represented with flash. Tends to bleach out all the colour and give a poorer rendition of reality.

 

Jeff

[60091]

That is a good question David. I wonder if anyone will come up with an answer? 2mm stuff is fine enough - so maybe N-gaugers just use dust?

 

Jeff

That's correct Jeff...or at least it is in my case. I built up a couple of layers of the ordinary N Gauge stuff then finished off with a sprinkle of ballast that I'd ground down to a fine powder.

 

Jason

You're not alone in your obsession. I also spent a lot of time removing stray ballast with an old Stanley Knife blade...and yes..there'll always be a couple of pieces I miss.

I'm also continuing to pick up some very good ideas while enjoying watching progress on your layout.

[Southernboy]

I don't think I've commented on your thread before Sandside ... but have just skimmed through it again from the start and wanted to say I find it increasingly inspiring.

 

I like the Excel spreadsheet for setting variations in the dimensions of your buildings on a hill, and equally the 'stepped' sub-boards for the gardens/sloped back-path for same.

 

I also like the technique of 'dry-dabbing/rubbing your buildings (as opposed to dry-brushing), I'll have to give that a try sometime, it'll be interesting to see whether it translates to N Gauge.

 

It goes without saying that the buildings themselves are quite exquisitely reproduced.

 

But most of all, the various individual hand-made elements are now starting to come together and a picture of a coherent, convincing whole is starting to emerge that the rest of us can appreciate all-the-more.

 

Very nice work indeed.

 

Right, I'm now off to read 'Buildings for Bacup' - I'm sure I'll find much inspiration there too

Edited June 11, 2012 by Southernboy

[Jason T]

Cheers Southernboy (and everyone else), what you (and 60091, the previous poster as chance would have it) have done in N gauge baffles me, as you have taken modelling in such a small gauge and excelled in it. When I look at what you have done and knowing how fiddly 4mm can be at times, it makes my brain hurt.

 

I'm glad you like the way it is all coming together. To tell you the truth, when I set out with this project, there was a lot that worried me (that I thought was way above my perceived level of 'skill') and although I had a vision of what I wanted to achieve, I wasn't actually sure that I could get it anything like that vision. I'm learning all the time though, as well as trying new things and techniques out, and it backs up what I said a few pages back that what many of us perceive to be 'black arts' in modelling are nothing of the sort if you sit down, think about it and most importantly, give it a go (oh, and show patience rather than trying to rush things, a mistake I used to make very often).

 

I had a bit of an accident last night, when I knocked my tin of paint over, covering part of the ballasted track. Luckily, I managed to clean it up but it was a real D'oh! moment

[Physicsman]

That's correct Jeff...or at least it is in my case. I built up a couple of layers of the ordinary N Gauge stuff then finished off with a sprinkle of ballast that I'd ground down to a fine powder.

 

Jason

You're not alone in your obsession. I also spent a lot of time removing stray ballast with an old Stanley Knife blade...and yes..there'll always be a couple of pieces I miss.

I'm also continuing to pick up some very good ideas while enjoying watching progress on your layout.

 

Cheers Alan. I was being a bit facetious in my comments, but fact if often stranger than fiction!

 

And I'd agree re. what Jason is doing. Extremely instructive! Alan - have a look at "Ben Alder" (Richard's) Far North Line - the scratchbuilding there is also cracking!

 

Jeff

[iankemp]

That ballasting looks great, looks better than mine!

[Jason T]

Ballasting. I would like to tell you that I have grown fond of it but that would be a downright lie and now I am faced with the worst bit of all, board 2 (station throat and goods yard entrance). But first, here are a couple of shots of the station board with ballast down and most of the buildings back on (although I still need to do the rear of the carriage siding)

 

 

 

So, board 2. The weather was decent enough the other day to allow me to get it outside and spray on the sleeper grime, let it dry and then paint the rail sides and chairs (yep, individually.......). I was thinking that this would be a relatively easy board to ballast as even though there are a number of turnouts, most of the trackwork is running lines and therefore possible to ballast with the 2mm stuff. But I had forgotten that I need to add the cess in ash, and then I realised that at least a couple of the sidings and a couple of the turnouts will need to be fully ballasted with ash ballast. I'm doing the ash ballasting first so that when the 'normal' ballast is added, it will once again be on top of it, rather than a weird join.

 

Both the good and bad thing about ash ballast is that it is so damned fine; good in that it does an okay job of representing it but bad in that to stick it down, you have to put some effort in. On my last layout, I used said ballast in a couple of areas and tried to use the usual PVA method but I found that because it is so fine, it just puddled, floated about and ended up looking uneven and awful so this time, despite it taking a LOT more effort, I am using the same method of painting in the Copydex and then laying the ash on thick, hoovering up the excess, etc. To get it up to sleeper level is taking 2 or 3 coats but tests so far show the end result to be even, still resembling what it is supposed to be (without being a shiny, ###### mess) and with the effort, up to sleeper hieight.

 

Here is the task ahead. It hurts my brain whenever I look at it

 

Here is the 3 way turnout, currently buried in ash. It will turn out okay (I just need to keep telling myself that)

 

And here is a siding, partly buried. When I have hoovered up, I'll take a photo and put it up so you can all judge me and poke me with sticks (hopefully not ones with dog poo on the end) but for now, I have to go to the pub. I know, I shouldn't be complaining, but it's a night organised by the Girlfriend for her students (she teaches Spanish) and I have no idea why I am being dragged along. I can't speak a bloody word of it, which really annoys her after 5 years together, especially when we visit her family in Spain (who speak no English)

Anyway, after that scintillating tale of bilingual woe, here is the photo, at last. Was it worth the suspense? No, it probably wasn't as it looks stupid

[Physicsman]

Repeat the mantra after me... It will turn out alright, It will turn out alright, It will turn out alright, It will turn out alright, It WILL BL***Y WELL turn out alright... I hope!!!!!

 

You're doing a great job there, Jason. "Keep the faith"...

 

Jeff

[Worsdell forever]

Agree with Jeff, it will be alright and it does look good.

 

Mantener el buen trabajo (No I don't speak a word of it either but I'm hoping Google Translate does...)

[Jason T]

As promised, here are the photos of both sections when the hoovering has been done. Plain track needs tidying up slightly and the turnout needs a couple more layers, but it's definitely getting to where I want it (although the colour is possibly a bit light as of now)

 

 

 

In other news, my head is in a right state this morning after the trip to the pub turned into a pub / club night, with the youths of the group insisting that we drink shots. Never one to shy away from a challenge, I did. I wish I hadn't.

[clecklewyke]

Jason, I continue to be mightily impressed by your work, especially as I have been deferring the issue of painting and ballasting the track on my viaduct section (for months!). A couple of questions:

 

1) did you spray the rails and chairs? If so, wow!

2) In hind-site would you think that painting the track before ballasting might have made the job simpler?

 

Ian

[Jason T]

Hi Ian,

 

I first gave the track an overall spray with Sleeper Grime and then painted (by hand) the rails and chairs. I did think about spraying them but for some reason, decided not to. With the chairs, I (sort of) dry brushed them with the paint on the rails, dragging it down in a vertical motion. It took a while to do but then, almost everything I have done so far has been laborious.

 

As for the order of doing things, it would definitely have been easier to paint first and ballast later, a lesson I learned from doing board 1 to board 2.