Transpennine Upgrade : Manchester/Leeds

[Titan]

On this topic, I was at a meeting a couple of weeks ago and someone mentioned that the design team are now proposing a flyover at Heaton Lodge Junction as the solution to electrifying the underpass tunnel. This IIRC was one of the 6 difficult structure that were identified very early on. Two others that I can remember are the ring road overbridge at Cross gates, due to it's elliptical arch shape, and a sewer pipe at the west end of Hudderfield Station.

 

Any further info on these matters would be appreciated.

 

Jamie

 

The flyover is not a solution to electrifying the underpass, it is for providing a 100mph grade separated junction for the new fast lines. This is an area for which four tracking is proposed, the underpass will become the slow lines and will still be electrified. 

[Edwin_m]

The flyover is not a solution to electrifying the underpass, it is for providing a 100mph grade separated junction for the new fast lines. This is an area for which four tracking is proposed, the underpass will become the slow lines and will still be electrified. 

Do you have a link to a track diagram for this? 

 

From what I remember (I was given a guided tour as a graduate trainee but that was almost 30 years ago!) the underpass has one track in it that provides a grade-separated junction today, but the benefit of this is rather negated by the lack of any further grade separation to undo this arrangement before Ravensthorpe.  Since the main flow of trains is between Huddersfield and Dewsbury, it would seem most logical to send both fast lines through the underpass to join the north side of the formation through Mirfield, putting them on the correct side for conflict-free divergence at Ravensthorpe.  Trains from Wakefield towards Huddersfield would be able to use the existing Up line connection at Heaton Lodge but those in the opposite direction would have to use a flat junction somewhere. 

[Titan]

Do you have a link to a track diagram for this? 

 

From what I remember (I was given a guided tour as a graduate trainee but that was almost 30 years ago!) the underpass has one track in it that provides a grade-separated junction today, but the benefit of this is rather negated by the lack of any further grade separation to undo this arrangement before Ravensthorpe.  Since the main flow of trains is between Huddersfield and Dewsbury, it would seem most logical to send both fast lines through the underpass to join the north side of the formation through Mirfield, putting them on the correct side for conflict-free divergence at Ravensthorpe.  Trains from Wakefield towards Huddersfield would be able to use the existing Up line connection at Heaton Lodge but those in the opposite direction would have to use a flat junction somewhere. 

 

Yes it is a single track underpass. The flyover is to be double track taking both up and down fast lines to the north of the formation, and then on through Mirfield and Ravensthorpe as you describe.

[jamie92208]

I can probably help with a bit of history. There are in fact two underpass tunnels. IIRC they were constructed as part of the Leeds New Line Project by the LNWR to take expresses under the Calder valley main line and then onto Battyford and up the Spen Valley and eventually via Birstall and Gildersome to rejoin the old Main line via a flying junction at Farnley Junction. The Calder Valley main line had a normal diverging double junction towards Huddersfield.

 

When the New line was closed the Trans Pennine trains were diverted to go via the underpasses and both up and down trains used them in the 1970's. I'm not sure if the flat junction was taken up or not. I never travelled over it when I lived in Huddersfield in the 70's.

 

Some time later, I think in the late 80's, but I'm happy to be corrected two of the four tracks on the Calder Valley Line between Ravensthorpe and Heaton Lodge were taken up (I believe that some sections were left as 3 tracks). and the Huddersfield bound trains were then sent via the flat connection from the Up Line while the Leeds bound trains continued to use the underpass thus creating a burrowing junction. The tracks in the other underpass were taken up.

 

I'm fairly certain that that's the chronology but am happy to be corrected.

 

 

Jamie

Edited November 22, 2016 by jamie92208

[Edwin_m]

That certainly fits with my understanding of the history.  When I got a walking tour of Heaton Lodge and Ravensthorpe junctions in 1988 they were fairly new.  There was also (and still is in a recent-ish Quail map) three tracks over most of the section but a short two-track bottleneck at Heaton Lodge and for half a mile the middle track at the Ravensthorpe end is effectively an extended diamond crossing for the junction there, with trains on the two routes using it in opposite directions.  Neither is particularly ideal for a railway that will be carrying seven or eight trains per hour in each direction. 

 

If the flyover will take the Fast lines over to the north side, what will the underpass (or pair of underpasses) do? 

[62613]

That sounds about right; the Calder Valley lines were four track from at least Sowerby Bridge, right through to at least Thornhill (Ravensthorpe). The line from Huddersfield was also four track, certainly as late as 1973, with the chord from Bradley Junction to Bradley Wood Junction being double track. There were two lines in the underpass at Heaton Lodge. If you look in The Signalbox site, there are some signalling diagrams from the 30s showing the unique system they had between Thornhill and Heaton Lodge.

[Titan]

If the flyover will take the Fast lines over to the north side, what will the underpass (or pair of underpasses) do?

 

They will be for the slow lines.

[jamie92208]

So dose that mean that the plan is to have them paired by use up to Ravensthorpe with fast on the north and slow on the south.   Presumably the four tracking will finish at Ravensthorpe.

 

Is there room at Mirfield for both fast lines to go north of the Leeds bound platform.

 

Jamie

[Edwin_m]

They will be for the slow lines.

Sorry I still don't understand - maybe I'm just being thick.  The underpass goes from the Huddersfield line underneath the Sowerby Bridge lines to allow trains to access the north side through Mirfield - but the flyover is supposed to be taking the fast lines to that side so the slow lines should be to the south side.  Does this mean the slow lines are keeping something like the existing arrangement, a burrowing junction with the pair from Sowerby Bridge to form the southern pair towards Raventhorpe? 

[phil-b259]

Sorry I still don't understand - maybe I'm just being thick.  The underpass goes from the Huddersfield line underneath the Sowerby Bridge lines to allow trains to access the north side through Mirfield - but the flyover is supposed to be taking the fast lines to that side so the slow lines should be to the south side.  Does this mean the slow lines are keeping something like the existing arrangement, a burrowing junction with the pair from Sowerby Bridge to form the southern pair towards Raventhorpe? 

 

While I cannot help with the specifics - the phrase "a picture speaks a thousand words" is very relevant.

 

Thus, as with many 'track plan' type questions, a rough sketch (hand drawn and uploaded as a photo would do) by those familiar with the area and the signalling changes over the years  would be appreciated

[APOLLO]

Here you are. Early layout (Battyeford being the Leeds new line)

 

 

And a 60's / today comparison

 

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=16&lat=53.6819&lon=-1.7212&layers=11&right=BingSat

 

1956 Signalbox diagram

 

 

Brit15

Edited November 23, 2016 by APOLLO

[Titan]

Excuse my crude paint editing of the quail maps, especially as it crosses the page, but diagrammatically this is pretty much what is proposed:

 

 

 

The line is four tracked between Huddersfield and just north of Ravensthorpe.

 

The flyover takes both fasts over all other lines at Heaton Lodge

 

Line speed on the fasts is to be 100mph all the way from Huddersfield to Dewsbury where it drops to 90mph.

 

Deighton, Mirfield, and Ravensthorpe stations to be rebuilt for the extra tracks and new alignment, with platforms on the slows only.

 

 

[jamie92208]

Thanks very much for that, It makes sense now.

 

Jamie

[Edwin_m]

Thanks Titan, that makes a lot of sense as a layout, looks like it can be installed without too much disruption, and is also well explained by you! 

[plarailfan]

I'm absolutely overjoyed by all this modernisation in my local area. It's like the 1960's modernisation plan all over again ! I wouldn't be surprised if, eventually, (20 years+) they need to start looking at re-opening the "Leeds new line" in some form, but that's another issue !

When is construction work expected to start on the new flyover at Heaton Lodge ?

[4630]

Thanks for posting Titan.

 

It's an ambitious plan and I hope, as proposed, it survives the pressure on Network Rail's budget.  I'm guessing that this work also ties in with the alterations that have been discussed for Huddersfield station? 

Edited November 25, 2016 by 4630

[peanuts]

All makes sence and gives lots of capacity and speed increases still doesent solve the problem of the bottle neck between marsden and Stalybridge which is the major capacity limiter .oh to have the micklehurst loop available with it's easier gradients and curves

[SHMD]

I got a letter from Network Rail yesterday...

 

 

 

Interestingly, the letter makes no mention of the footbridge near the Springbank Lane road bridge.

Does this mean that they intent to do no work to it? Perhaps they just want to demolish it?

 

If they do demolish it then it really would not be much of a loss as the Springbank Lane road bridge is so close by.

(This foot bridge was originally built to allow access to the 'square' of cottages, (located at the top of Springbank Lane), and to the 'Liberal Club' that was at the bottom of Springbank Lane. Both long since gone.

 

 

Kev.

[peanuts]

I got a letter from Network Rail yesterday...

 

20161228_163343a.jpg

 

 

Interestingly, the letter makes no mention of the footbridge near the Springbank Lane road bridge.

Does this mean that they intent to do no work to it? Perhaps they just want to demolish it?

 

If they do demolish it then it really would not be much of a loss as the Springbank Lane road bridge is so close by.

(This foot bridge was originally built to allow access to the 'square' of cottages, (located at the top of Springbank Lane), and to the 'Liberal Club' that was at the bottom of Springbank Lane. Both long since gone.

 

 

Kev.

With the planned demolition of the derelict power station buildings and thier  replacment  with eight "executive " properties and the development of 150+ rabbithutch........ sorry houses on the railwaywarehouse site surely it makes sence to keep the footbridge open rather than squeezing  the extra footfall  up springbank lanes narrow path 

[peanuts]

also i note tho it doesnt tie in with this section of the line that there are new bi directional signals  and there bloody ugly along side the M602 at Eccles does anyone know if this has resulted in Eccles box going 

[62613]

Some work going on at the western end of Scout Tunnel, between Stalybridge and Mossley, today. Vegetation cut back immediately outside the tunnel, with a NR safety barrier in place. At about 9.30 2 blokes dressed in orange, one with a dumpy level. Just surveying, or something more?

[woodenhead]

Some work going on at the western end of Scout Tunnel, between Stalybridge and Mossley, today. Vegetation cut back immediately outside the tunnel, with a NR safety barrier in place. At about 9.30 2 blokes dressed in orange, one with a dumpy level. Just surveying, or something more?

Due to cutbacks in funding, the new widened bores at Scout tunnel will be completed by two blokes dressed in orange using a Black and Decker cordless drill.

[SHMD]

Some work going on at the western end of Scout Tunnel, between Stalybridge and Mossley, today. Vegetation cut back immediately outside the tunnel, with a NR safety barrier in place. At about 9.30 2 blokes dressed in orange, one with a dumpy level. Just surveying, or something more?

 

I noticed that a couple a weeks ago coming back from Newcastle.

What you cant see from the road is the JCB type digger that is in the vegetation on the other side of the line.

 

 

Kev.

[peanuts]

Some work going on at the western end of Scout Tunnel, between Stalybridge and Mossley, today. Vegetation cut back immediately outside the tunnel, with a NR safety barrier in place. At about 9.30 2 blokes dressed in orange, one with a dumpy level. Just surveying, or something more?

could it be to do with  tunnel mouth collapse ? maybe sorting the drainage etc to prevent a repeat 

[62613]

I was thinking about checking levels; given the embankment problems NR have had in other parts of the country, could it be to check that the one there isn't sliding down the hill? That side of the hill is a fault line, hence how steep it is.