Rugd1022 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Afternoon gents, Two quieries rolled into one I'm afraid, but hopefully someone might be able to shed some light on a subject that has some rather nice modelling potential! Having drooled over the 'Diesels & Electrics on 35mm' footage kindly linked into the Heljan Class 16 thread by Michael Delamar here in post #112, http://www.rmweb.co....6/page__st__100 I'm trying to pin down the individual vehicles shown at 17.25mins in, with D1021 Western Cavalier hauling the stand in set for the Blue Pullman, otherwise known to many as the 'Wells Fargo' set. Now, normally, this set was made up of seven vehicles that had been used previously in the steam hauled South Wales Pullman, but in this clip the third, fourth and fifth vehicles are clearly three of the Eastern Region's Met-Camm Pullams in umber and cream livery. I've checked the info on the Kier Hardy site which does mention some of the redundant Kitchen 2nds being loaned to the WR, but as this mainly refers to the post 1967 period, I'm wondering how and when the three vehicles in the clip managed to find their way into the loco hauled Bristol set slightly earlier than this. Time wise, I know that the footage was filmed in the Autumn of 1966, for inserton into an episode of the first colour series of The Saint, and the previous down train in the clip is hauled by D1036 in green livery, which was called to Swindon for overhaul and a repaint into blue / small yellow panels that November, so it can't have been any later than this. On top of that, I've managed to identify the 'Wells Fargo' loco as being D1021 because of the condition of it's maroon paintwork on the cabfront and the length of the nameplate, this particular Western was notorious for having very tatty paint around this time and like D1036, went into Swindon for a repaint into blue soon after. D1010 Western Campaigner was in a similar state at the time but it's longer nameplate rules it out. I've paused the footage several times and the first Met-Camm appears to be one of the Kitchen 2nds, the next one looks like a Parlour 1st or 2nd with the third being possibly another Kitchen 2nd, going by the details on the roof. If anyone can help I'd be very grateful, I've already picked Mike / The Stationmaster's brains over it but sadly he drew a blank, despite seeing the Wells Fargo in the flesh back in the day (you lucky chap Mike). If I can pin down the identity of these three babies I shall be purchasing the necessary Bachmann models forthwith! Which brings me to the second part of my quiery - the earlier 'standard' Pullman vehicles seen in the clip..... are any of the current Hornby Pullmans suitable for doing the Wells Fargo set, even if they do need renaming or renumbering? I know the Dapol Western is a fair way off just yet, but I can't help thinking the working shown in that wonderful footage would make a cracking rake in 4mm. Thanks in advance, fingers crossed (Edit : meant to add - the Wells Fargo set was used as stand by for all three of the WR's Blue Pullman services at various times, ie: to Bristol, South Wales and Birmingham) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 The stand-by set changed over the years. The 1960 cars came to the WR following the withdrawal of The Queen of Scots in 1964. They were seconds but were used as firsts on the WR (where the first class in the Blue Pullmans also had 2+1 seating). In August 1964 the stand-by set was car numbers: 54, 106, 340, 352, 344, 105, 55. So, the 1960 cars were two kitchen seconds and a parlour second in between, all running as firsts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Many thanks for that Robert, that's helped me out no end. I had thought that the Queen Of Scots had finished two or three years later than '64, glad you've put me right on that. I just need to see which Hornby Pullman vehicles can be used as well now. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCAR6015 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 The stand-by set changed over the years. The 1960 cars came to the WR following the withdrawal of The Queen of Scots in 1964. They were seconds but were used as firsts on the WR (where the first class in the Blue Pullmans also had 2+1 seating). In August 1964 the stand-by set was car numbers: 54, 106, 340, 352, 344, 105, 55. So, the 1960 cars were two kitchen seconds and a parlour second in between, all running as firsts. I can confirm the above as correct from my train spotting note book from 1964. Recorded on Tuesday 18th August 1964. Location: Woodcock Lane overbridge just south of Acocks Green Station. Birmingham 26. Motive power was a Brush Type 4 either D1689 or D1717 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Well it doesn't get much better than this! Many tanks RCAR6015 B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCAR6015 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Well it doesn't get much better than this! Many tanks RCAR6015 B) HI - Rugd1022. Thanks for your comment. Pleased to be of assistance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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