6029 King Stephen Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I'm looking to buy a new garden shed in the new year, mainly to house a layout but also to store the usual garden tools etc. The shed I'm thinking about is 16' x 10' or possibly 20'x10' if I can convince my wife that it won't dominate the garden. What will be the likely area available inside these size sheds? My plan is to model Plymouth Friary and its MPD and feel that this should be achievable in a 16' x 10' shed with the terminus down one side, the station throat around the ends and the MPD down the other side. The main lines will continue under the terminus boards and into the fiddleyard. The layout would be a simple out and back design, although I have thought about having a simple loop around the perimeter of the shed and a reverse loop for trains to get back to the terminus. The layout will be set high enough to put a bike, lawnmower and simple workbench underneath. Regards, Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 11, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 11, 2011 It all depends on the thickness of the cladding and frame timber plus the accuracy of the maker's description and any assembly jigs. As I understand things all timber shed sizes are 'nominal' and in any case refer to the outside overall dimensions (hence knocking off various thicknesses etc to get at the internal dimension). Best advice I can give is to go and look and some examples at a reputable maker's site (i.e. not at a D-I-Y warehouse where shed quality tends to be fairly poor) and search online for maker's etc in your area. It really does pay to take your time looking round before you buy as quality of materials and workmanship varies considerably if what I found when buying mine is in any way indicative. I don't use either of my sheds for model railway purposes, not even the 16ft long one, but one thing I would seriously recommend is to get a building with 'workshop doors' (i.e. two leaves instead of a single door) as it makes access, especially the movement of materials, very much easier. Oh and don't forget to look at your local Planning byelaws etc. In most cases you don't need Planning Permission for a shed provided its area is smaller than a certain percentage of your total garden area but this can vary in things like Conservation Areas or at the whim of local planners; generally the Council's planning website will give you the answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I would strongly second Mike's advice. You pay more it is true, but you get so much more for the money: a good specialist supplier will have options on aspects like door and window position too. Also, give a thought to space lost to insulation. A couple of inches of a foamboard all around will take a little interior space, but repay you with vastly improved comfort, both summer and winter. (The offcuts will be scenically useful.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Also worth considering is that some of the timber building suppliers will erect the shed for you if you have a base prepared for them. Quite useful with something bigger than the traditional 6' x 4' garden tool shed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 As above. You REALLY need to go and see. www/yell.com and search sectional buildings, sheds, garden buildings etc. in your area. My friend bought quite an expensive one in metal from a well known DIY online store which now has local outlets. When it arrived it bore NO relation to their published sizes, nor ther makers, either inside or out, and was not fit for the purpose he wanted it for. The company reluctantly took it back and refunded him, but were un-apolgetic about the discrepancies between published and real data. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERS Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Try Mercia Garden Products or Waltons. They're one and the same company and manufacture most of their range themselves, as well as supplying folks like B & Q, Argos etc. I'm in the final throes of building one of their log cabins as a summerhouse ###### workshop and they have been excellent. We bought a second quality cabin which was down to it being stored and having some marks on the timbers, nothing a good clean and some stain didn't take care of and it was extremely economical. They have a showground at the factory near Newark which is worth a visit if you're in striking distance, you can check dimensions and the standard of the various types which is useful to compare. I've no connection with them other than a satisfied customer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sidecar Racer Posted December 12, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 12, 2011 Having had a new shed errected in the last few months here are my thoughts , decide exactly what size you want , then look around and buy the most expensive you can afford , my 30 x 10 monster is what is called a ' contractor range ' shed , this is substantially better built than your normal shed , all the timber is thicker than garden type sheds . Mine was built to the style I wanted by a local firm , delivered and errected by them , I decided I was to old to start hefting great lumps of woodwork about . I would definatley reccomend trying to see some first hand to get an idea of t he various construction styles A link to a company that I had thought about contacting before I was told about the local one . http://www.regencyti...uildings.co.uk/ This gives you some prices for different sizes and consruction timber thickness's . Here is a photo of mine . It might look a bit odd but I had to do a panoramic two shot job to get it in then stitch the two together . Hope this is of help . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6029 King Stephen Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Thank you for all your replies - they have been most helpful. The shed that I am considering is 16' x 10', tongue and groove construction using 13mm timber and costing in the region of £755, with fitting included. I inherited a 10' x 8' shed that is rotting around the lower edges and is the wrong way round for what I want. The new shed will have double doors in the 10' end. I'm undecided on whether to have windows or not - without will improve security but will mean that artificial light will have to used all the time. I plan to insulate the inside of the shed walls and cover this with some 4mm ply. All plug sockets will be fitted below the baseboard level and there will be a mains circuit board connected to the house. The existing shed will be advertised on ebay, with a £1 start and for the buyer to dismantle and remove. The existing concrete base will then have to extended to accommodate the new shed. Regards, Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted December 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2011 Your spec above looks eminently sensible. When it comes to wooden buildings my preference is always for tongue and groove cladding. You don't mention pressure-treated timber, but I assume this is a given. It is obviously your choice, but I would strongly encourage you to include windows. It is an easy job to install wooden shutters inside to improve security and, while operating a layout can be fine under artificial light, I feel sure you will appreciate the option of natural light on occasions. The only other item I would question is the use of 4mm ply for internal cladding. The latter element adds rigidity to the structure so I would definitely use thicker plywood - 10mm as a minimum. However, your choice, of course. For security I would strongly recommend an external lock which uses a steel bar across your doors. Nothing is totally burglar-proof, but a good strong locking bar bolted to the structure will discourage someone trying to jemmy the doors. I know it takes funds away from other things, but believe me, you won't regret the investment. Sensor-operated security lghting is another item I would recommend. Also, don't hesitate to call your local police crime prevention officer to go over your plans (for security, not the layout!). They'll usually be more than happy to offer advice. Good luck with the project and do please keep us posted on progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sidecar Racer Posted December 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2011 I covered my windows with mirror film internally , this still allows light to get in but provided an excellant way of stopping people seeing in . I also replaced some of the screws in the hinges and locking plate with coach bolts with internal nuts , this does at least stop someone simply undoing a few screws to remove the door . I will be beefing things up a bit later . My electrics also go back to a master switch in the house but with a two way fused unit in the shed , all on trip fuses for maximum safety . Good luck with the new shed , hope you have many happy hours in it . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Cladding the inside with something like thin ply will increase the rigidity and security of any shed without cutting into the internal dimensions too much. The gap between the inner plywood and outer cladding can be filled with insulation, improving comfort and temperature fluctuations. Remember: no matter how good your door lock is, the average shed's cladding can be peeled off using a pry-bar so it pays to have something secure on the inside. My shed (inherited with the house) had a rot problem starting up around the base of the cladding, and this was fixed by making sure that there was guttering all the way around the roof to get rid of rainwater rather than letting it trickle down the cladding. Any minor rot was treated with Ronseal wet rot wood hardener that I normally use for repairing boats. Make sure that the roof felt is fully watertight before building your miniature wonderland! I reroofed mine to be on the safe side as the original felt was perished. Don't skimp on things like this, as the first you'll know about a leak is usually when it has ruined part of your model! The shed is around 6' wide, from memory however internal dimensions when cutting the plywood to fit turned out to be in the region of 5'8". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 For what its worth this is my experience with a timber shed. We put in a 12 by 24 shed from Passmores in Rochester. Best thing I've ever done for modelling. In the end its cost over £4k. The cost of the actual shed was around half that. Make sure the base is near perfect to start. We levelled an existing garage base and after 3 years its proving to be unsuitable as there is moisture getting between the old and new layers of concrete. The old base outside of the shed dimensions is also starting to shift a bit. Still the inside is dry and level but will need some remedial action eventually. I'll probably need to lift bits of the floor and pour in some levelling compound. As mentioned the inside dimensions will be the outside minus the thickness of the cladding AND the frame. Most sheds are 50mm by 50mm framing. So in theory you should be losing about 150mm or around 6" per dimension. Also allow for insulation and interior walling. Insulation and lining: I ended up using 2" polystyrene sheets (Jabalite) with 9mm sheetrock (drywall) lining. If you are going to go the trouble of this, I also recommend using a vapour barrier on the warm side of the insulation. This will reduce the damp in the shed. Worth the extra £50 or so it will cost + time & effort. Make sure you insulate the roof. Thats where most of the heat will go. I use a 1-2 kw greenhouse frost heater to keep the internal temp above 6c all the time, and flipping it to 2kw and on full whack it will get the interior up to 19c above the outside temp in under an hour. Security: Very important. Strengthen the doors or even look at replacing them with metal framed and re-enforced ones. For the moment I have just run an internal framing of dexion around the door frame and also strengthened the door with dexion strips. Not perfect but it will stop most opportunist attempts. I also changed the screws on the hinges to captive bolts that run through the dexion on the inside. This means the hinges can't just be pried off or unscrewed. Windows, again I just used dexion as window bars on the inside with some old net curtains. If any part of the shed is exposed to the outside of your property. ie, lane or path. Don't put a window into that wall. I made sure all windows are visible from the house, as is the door. Also consider a pivoting door bar and a good quality lock. An internal cheap motion sensing alarm is also a good investment. Consider waiting around 6 months before staining or treating the exterior cladding. We found the wood used was still quite "green" and after applying the Cuprinol we've seen some sap seepage where there are knots in the boards. Much easier to wait for this to happen, then clean and paint. Add trains and have fun! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted December 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 19, 2011 Another couple of points to Andrews... When I build mine I will add hinged ply panels to the inside of the windows with insulation fitted to these panels. They will be top hung and a catch on the ceiling to hold them open. When the shed is not use these panels can be closed over the windows and locked shut from the inside. This will help with thermal insulation and security. A friend has a large chalet style shed and he has installed a small plug in insect repeller. Once when he left it unplugged he ended up with a lot of bugs getting in but on plugging t back in they soon disappeared. I dont know where he got it from but can soon ask if anyone is interested. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted December 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 19, 2011 I agree with the recommendations for plenty of insulation, but make sure you allow sufficient ventilation, or you'll end up creating damp, probably where you can't see it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted December 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 19, 2011 Yes very true.. a few roof vents perhaps and definitely a vapour barrier as Andrew mentioned Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ELTEL Posted December 30, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2011 Hi All Just a couple of points that may be useful. 1. Security I had added a extra door type switch to my shed which I used as workshop, the tyoe used on the entry door to your house on alarm system. Done on at the same time as my annual alarm service cost me less than £25.00 2. The other vunrable point being the window had a small double glazed unit fitted (factory reject) £100 The shed is now secure After all that the shed not big enough to house the next model railway project, so converted the garage into a modelling room. ELTEL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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