The Nth Degree Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I've been wanting to build something for ages. I did build a little test track / play track a while ago but it's an embarrassment. Truly. I've thought of something to build later but, in the meantime I'd like to test out a lot of the skills required to build 'that' layout on this one. I've never built scenery, structures or kits, or even modified anything ready-made. I've not even held a soldering iron. The mini layout is attached and is open to suggestions, comment or ridicule. It measures 120x80cm. It will be DC with lever-operated points and signals. There's a possibility it will be illuminated, but I'm not overly fussed by that. The track will be hand-made Easitrac so I want to limit the number of points to the bare minimum (see soldering comment above). I'm still working on the logistics of the fiddle yard - how to get the loco out again without the train it brought in. I hope the structures are self-explanatory but please ask if you're stuck. The sidings off the turntable are stabling for spare coaches and brake vans, unless you can think of a better excuse for having them. There's one operational question I have: The passenger train pulls in, the loco disconnects and runs round to the front and off it goes again. However, how does this happen with a goods train? It's stuck there against the buffers until the wagons are unloaded, or am I missing something obvious? Thanks in advance, and happy new year! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 I've hosted it on my site: http://trackplans.citrusdm.com/#home Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I know this is probably not the answer you want but I think either a run-round loop on the freight section, or swapping the passenger and freight sections around and joining the freight sidings on to the passenger run round are likely to be your only obvious options - both requiring at least another point I guess. If it's a small terminus it is unlikely that there would be a station pilot loco (unless it's late enough to consider having an industrial diesel shunter around) to shunt so you'd have to shunt release - otherwise you'd have to reverse out on to the mainline, draw into the station then run round just to get the train away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Pull it into the existing passing loop. Engine runs around pulls train out then pushes it into appropriate siding. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 A headshunt might be an idea on the freight sidings, so a loco can shunt wagons without having to venture onto the main line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 That's what I was thinking - another point to make. Interesting observation Pete. Is this what would have happened at Cardigan? I have an accurate track plan of Cardigan, albeit slightly compressed, in the same directory as the this (you may have to click on the top left image to get the other image to appear). I thought of running the goods line into the turntable but it would probably be too short. I could move the turntable up to the good area, or make the turntable available to all lines? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2011 Pull it into the existing passing loop. Engine runs around pulls train out then pushes it into appropriate siding. Best, Pete. Exactly so - if this was good enough for umpteen 12":1' branch termini it shouldn't really be overlooked as the way to do the job Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 I guess that settles it. Any tips on the fiddle yard planning? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2011 Any tips on the fiddle yard planning? At first view there seems to be an awful lot of white space. It all depends on how you plan to run things but reckon you could get in a fairly long kickback siding off the innermost existing one which could save a bit of handling if you aren't using cassettes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Ignoring the fiddle yard for a moment, would a goods train be run into the passing loop, not the platform line, while the engine was reversing? Or would the procedure be the same as a passenger train? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2011 Ignoring the fiddle yard for a moment, would a goods train be run into the passing loop, not the platform line, while the engine was reversing? Or would the procedure be the same as a passenger train? Same as a passenger train - and I wouldn't be surprised if that was all the signalling allowed anyway! Plus the advantage of arriving on the platform line (in 99% of cases) is that it gave the maximum amount of standing room and any length limits for the branch would almost certainly be based on that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 With that in mind, I have slightly redrawn the track plan to accommodate a train reversing down the main line better. I should be able to keep a goods train on the scenic layout before shunting up the goods line. Beforehand, the loco (at least) would have disappeared into the trees. Now the fiddle yard and, since you've brought it up Stationmaster, the signalling. I know NOTHING about signals, not even what type of signals would have been around in the late 19thC GWR... http://trackplans.citrusdm.com/#1.2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted December 30, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2011 The main issue that I can see is the track radius. If you want to run 2mm FS steam locos you are likely to find that the curve to the fiddle yard is too tight by quite a long way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2011 With that in mind, I have slightly redrawn the track plan to accommodate a train reversing down the main line better. I should be able to keep a goods train on the scenic layout before shunting up the goods line. Beforehand, the loco (at least) would have disappeared into the trees. Now the fiddle yard and, since you've brought it up Stationmaster, the signalling. I know NOTHING about signals, not even what type of signals would have been around in the late 19thC GWR... http://trackplans.citrusdm.com/#1.2 Ah - so what sort of date do you have in mind? GWR signalling seems to have changed quite a bit around the turn of the century for several reasons but if you really are 'late 19th century it would have been very simple for a terminus such as yours although there would have been trap point (one coming off the run round loop and another at the yard exit. As far as signals are concerned a straight post Home Signal at the toe of the points in the approach to the station - just a single stop arm but probably by then an independent (as they were called) ground shunting signal at the turnout for the goods yard and another at the trap point for leaving it plus a third at the trap point for leaving teh run round. And finally another straightforward stop signal as the platform Starting Signal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Kris, I can smooth out the curves slightly to help but the loco is a very small 0-6-0, smaller than any other 0-6-0 that I've seen. All the coaches are the 4-wheel variety. Using 60-65cm of my depth for turning I hope it will be OK. It will be a Fox Walker of 1860s vintage. Stationmaster, that's good info, thanks very much. I'll knock up a plan and research what those signals look like. Nearly finished fiddle yard plan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Final (as I can make it) plan linked below. A total of 5 points, one of which is an offset 3-way, plus a turntable gives 4 sidings of varying lengths, a runaround loop plus a shed, and a four lane fiddle yard. I'm happy with that, though I'm not looking forward to the 3-way point. I'll save that for last. Stationmaster, I've incorporated your comments. I have no idea what these signals look like so I've marked them with red dots. Please let me know if any positions are incorrect (from left to right: loop exit, station go, yard entrance, yard exit, station entry). I'm looking forward to this winter project! http://trackplans.citrusdm.com/#1.3 http://trackplans.citrusdm.com/#1.3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted December 31, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2011 Way to many signals. You need a starter on the platform line and possibly some form of starter from the goods yard if you intend to start trains from there ( this could be a ground signal) but beyond that I can't see much signalling being used here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 This is such a contentious sport, isn't it? Just so everyone knows, the year is 1869 in west Wales. This is the first day of GWR ownership of a previous Whitland & Cardigan Railway line. This part of the line has been advised upon during construction by GWR due to its inevitable and impending ownership. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 31, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2011 This is such a contentious sport, isn't it? Just so everyone knows, the year is 1869 in west Wales. This is the first day of GWR ownership of a previous Whitland & Cardigan Railway line. This part of the line has been advised upon during construction by GWR due to its inevitable and impending ownership. Ah, we've now gone a bit earlier. So we would still have a semaphore Home Signal coming in, we would still have a semaphore Starting Signal (on the platform) but at that date independent ground shunting signals would be much less common and you would have nice little 'signals' worked off the front point stretcher bar reading out of the run-round loop and the yard. These are illustrated in various books but I haven't got a picture of one alas - however they are very simple consisting of a large lamp case which rotates through 90 degrees when the point is operated and they change from showing a small red target and light to showing a small green target and light. In 2mm scale they will be very small as the lamp case was just a little larger than a usual GWR signal lamp case. The semaphore signals at that date were quite a bit different from later GWR designs and (according to Vaughan in GW Signalling) had slotted posts with the lamp case mounted lower down the post than the arm - a design which was superseded in 1876. BTW the original Whitland & Cardigan Railway opened its first section in 1873 which would almost certainly have meant that the Inspecting Officer would have demanded a Starting Signal at the terminus and Home Signals were common by then; the GWR took over the company in 1890 but had been working the line for some years previously so would no doubt have made it presence felt as regard signalling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted December 31, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2011 If you are using Cardigan's track plan, you might as well use the signalling diagram as well. see: http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwm/S2214.htm Regards Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Thanks all. Sorry about the date, it was meant to read 1889 - I was getting confused with my birth date. Richard, lovely, thanks. Happy new year all. It's just ended on a bad note - my car was broken into. Nothing taken but annoying. Here's to a much better 2012! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Latest plan attached, with new signalling and traps positioned. Reworked goods lines, reduced shed, extended station, plus a few other tweaks. Are there any unforeseen problems or glaring errors with this as is? I'll start to plan the baseboard shortly and work in all the point, turntable, sector plate and signal operating controls. I plan to have the whole layout - fiddle yard, power and operational controls within the baseboard area on the plan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Just a bump to make sure the signalling is correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2012 Looks right to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Thanks Kris, appreciate it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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