buffalo Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 ...you would have nice little 'signals' worked off the front point stretcher bar reading out of the run-round loop and the yard. These are illustrated in various books but I haven't got a picture of one alas - however they are very simple consisting of a large lamp case which rotates through 90 degrees when the point is operated and they change from showing a small red target and light to showing a small green target and light.... There's a picture of one of these on the GWS Bristol Group signals page. It is labelled "Frome (Dependent Disc)". Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Excellent link Nick, thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'm having another look at this layout of mine with a reasonably clear head and I think I have a problem. What is the turntable there for? I don't really need to turn a loco round and I can do without the servicing lane realistically. The main reason for it to be there was to stable excursion or holiday coaches plus spare brake vans - but how would I get them on or off the sidings? The turntable is only big enough for a loco... I need help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2012 A horse may have been used on the real thing. I would be surprised to see excursion coaches going over the TT though. It would mean breaking a rake which is very time consuming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Thanks Kris. Maybe I have the term incorrect. I mean the extra one or two coaches used in summer peak timetables for a small resort town. Or would these be seasonal additions, used on all passenger services, and then stabled over winter? My understanding was that only morning and evening services had extra coaches allocated, the remainder as a standard passenger set? Also, what merchant/trader would conduct his business out of a wagon/van/tanker from a siding? I know that at Cardigan there was a petrol merchant operating close to the station yard - his stand being refilled by pipe from a tanker brought into the yard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2012 Thanks Kris. Maybe I have the term incorrect. I mean the extra one or two coaches used in summer peak timetables for a small resort town. Or would these be seasonal additions, used on all passenger services, and then stabled over winter? My understanding was that only morning and evening services had extra coaches allocated, the remainder as a standard passenger set? The situation with 'loose' strengthening coaches changed a lot over the years but one thing which was fairly consistent through the steam age was that such vehicles were held at many places for both daily and less frequent use. And if you go back to early days it was not unusual for 4 or 6 wheeled coaches to be held in short sidings accessed by turntables although I don't know how long this practice lasted. And coaches back then could easily be moved by a gang of men using a pinchbars - in fact not too difficult at all to get them moving, far harder to stop them. So there is a deal of logic in your original idea, my only question would be 'did it go on that long?' but at the same time a nod to remoteness and 'small railway' practice would not go amiss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 With those helpful posts from Stationmaster and Kris in mind, I've slightly redrawn the layout at the turntable. Except the shed siding, the stabling sidings can be access directly by a loco from the platform line or the runaround line, without having the turntable move during coupling or shunting. To me, this makes much more sense, and in a model railway setting, I won't have to nudge any stock along with a pretend horse (in the style of Fingermouse...). Also, as I'm going to turn locos round at the shed, I better have a method of turning them in the fiddle yard so have incorporated another turntable to enable a completely 'hands-off' experience. I'll need to get this drawn up in Templot at some stage, ready to transfer onto a baseboard. The trouble is I only have a Mac and don't have a copy of windows or a suitable partition to instal one on. Is there a service that translates rough plans to workable trackplans for track building? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 My final plan below. I can't see anything obviously wrong with the layout, thanks to the advice in this thread and others. I'll investigate getting the trackplan worked up in Templot. A quick note on the fiddle yard As I want this layout as a skills learner and improver, plus as a keeper in a corner somewhere, I want it to have a bit of longevity. The way I've done that is to transform the fiddle yard into a small marshalling yard for goods trains. One road will have vans and the other wagons. I will use some sort of device to generate a train formation that I will have to make in the fiddle yard before I take it out and deliver it on the layout, then unmake it when I bring it back. I've named it too. As this is a precurser to my Cardigan layout, my partner informs me that a sleeveless cardigan is called a 'gilet'. As this is a truncated Cardigan, I hereby name this layout 'Gillet Bay'. Very much looking forward to starting! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Like Kris I was a bit concerned by the Radii you plan on using so I took your latest plan, put it into Templot - scaled it to your baseboard size and put the curve overlaid. The Radius comes out at between 11" and 9" ( in fact I had one reading down to 8.8"), which is pretty tight and I'd be concerned about the abilities of even a 0-6-0 getting round that. You can certainly just about do it in 'N' gauge as I had a track plan using that type of radii, indeed someone (who's name I forget) threw a few loco's at a track of that Radius and from memory small 0-6-0's were fine, Prairies were probably ok on 11" but not 9, 14xx protested but could just about handle it. Question is, can 2mm handle it? Typically with finescales I believe the 'slack' in the chassis is tightened up compared to RTR, but on the flip side you might be able to gauge widen slightly? Not saying there definitely WILL be a problem, just highlighting just how tight the curves really are. Given you have 80cm to play with, why don't you run the loop much further up the board. Reverse the configuration so the station is at the top, and if needed you can put the station on a slight curve to fit the space. If you feed the loop from a curved point you can start the throat while still in the curve, thus wouldn't loose much/any length. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 BTW have you any thoughts on the length of the turntable? I make it 32ft which is pretty short I think. I found the thread which included the measurements done for me, this is it, you might find it useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hello Katier, thanks for the link, I remember that. I have vague memories of you starting it. Am I right? Your concerns are valid, of course. It does have some very tight turns and this has been brought to my attention. I've made a quick revise to ease up the curves and the over-keen points (attached below). I'm totally constrained by my baseboard size which must not be over 1250 x 750 or I can't fit it anywhere. As it is, this will be over my desk at home, fixed to the wall on a fold down bracket. The locos I plan to build will be tiny Fox Walker 0-6-0. Even by 0-6-0 standards they are small - probably 2 of them would take up the space of a 26' 4-wheel coach. All the coaches are 4-wheelers and the wagons and vans are the smallest varieties. This is 19thC afterall. This layout will serve as a testbed for building baseboards and scenery but above all, track and 2mm kits. Everything that moves will be kit built or scratch built, ready to transfer onto my final layout - Cardigan. As I write one of the stars of RMWeb is helping me out putting the trackplan together in Templot. He's helped and suggested quite a few things already, one of which is the decision of swapping the platform and goods yard. I've still got a bit of planning to do (my final plan statement was way too premature) but it is definitely moving in the right direction. Watch this space! Branch Terminus 5.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I did start it yes but then it accidently got water damaged (don't ask!!!) so it was wrecked.. ultimately I swapped to 3mm/ft which is a scale I am rather liking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 I thought long and hard about that scale too. I may try it out when my eyesight starts to fail and my kit building skills improve... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I thought long and hard about that scale too. I may try it out when my eyesight starts to fail and my kit building skills improve... For your project 2mm is ideal due to the tight curve (15" is really the minimum on 3mm) but the range of kits is better for 3mm/ft as we have a lot of 'shot down' 7mm kits. Less of an issue for GWR as they are always well catered for, but I wanted to go North Eastern and can get kits for all loco types I need in 3mm but not 2mm. Look forward to seeing your templotted plan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 In the words of Michael Jackson, this is it! Templot trackplan provided by the venerable Gordon of Eastwood Town fame. Much appreciation and thanks to him. Onwards to baseboard and control planning... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
signalmaintainer Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 A nice, flowing track plan, and I thnk the name you chosen for the layout is a winner, too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Very nice - love the fact there are 6 points... and not a straight one amongst them!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Thanks both. Katier, sorry to disappoint but I'm now thinking of doing away with the scenic turntable and having a normal runaround point there, with the shed siding on another point off the goods road. That will take it to 8 points. I'm really torn between these two options... Such a shame I can't have it wider but I have no space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Me again! Personally I think that the layout will look better without the turntable in the scenic area. Always sticking my oar in at opportune moments - no I think it will look more natural without it. I do like the concept of one in the "fiddleyard" though.. Overall I think it is a very good plan. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Funnily enough Pete, having redrawn it now without the turntable, I prefer the original plan as the turntable gave it some additional interest. Without it, it just became another small branch line station..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Gordon, C'est la Gare (sic). Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2012 It is the TT that takes the layout away from the norm. Loosing it would make for a much easier build but I feel you would loose more than you gain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Your TT reminds me of the one at Waterford on the Waterford and Tramore line. This too was at a terminus. The TT also had sidings radiating off it. They seem to have parked locos in the sidings more than stock. There are a few good photos on line if you look hard enough. Try this link for a map Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Unfortunately your link didn't work for me, Armchair, but I did find this amazing engine and railway! http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/Ireland/GreatSouthern/Ballybunion.html I'm settled on the scenic TT now, if nothing else it different and will provide me with an extra job to do. Nothing will be motorised on this layout so I'll be working up a sweat infront of and behind the scenes! The plan looks to me of a confined terminus area, perhaps restricted by a small port or on the riverside (like at Cardigan) where goods are transported and imported by ferry or ship, as the goods facilities are on a larger scale than the passenger services. One thing for sure is there's plenty of play potential in the fiddle/marshalling yard making goods trains. I have the basic framework drawn up for the baseboard. It's going to be using 10mm main frames with 5mm or 6mm inside braces. There's nothing heavy to support so my main problem is going to be warping but I can overcome that with some aluminium side braces which will fit to the wall hinge so I can fold it up when not used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 You want monorail? If you keep the TT, as Gordon says, it will make the layout more distinctive. I like the plan with or without the TT... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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