Debs. Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I spent an enjoyable afternoon recently, down at Birkenhead docks, measuring the 'actuality' for my Canning St./Egerton Dock model. It came a bit of a surprise when during my surveying, I discovered that some of the still-extant tramway lines; those in setts (especially within the confines of warehouse yards) were as tight as 36 yards radius (and yes, I double checked!)....at last, a scale-use for set-track! Surely they could only have been worked using draught-horses or capstan-winching? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 They could have been loco-shunted. I had a look at the Barrowmere site for the weight diagrams of small shunters; The 03 was good for 2 chains (44 feet) without gauge widening, but with 3/4" widening this went down to 1.1 chains (24 feet). The Hunslet 05 was good down to 1.52 chains without widening but with a 'Dead Slow Speed' (unquantified) restriction. R&H 07 (purpose-built for Southampton Docks) were 1 Chain with 3/4" widening. 0-4-0s were capable of 1.365 chains (Barclay 01). Steam power, such as the L&Y Pugs, or the various tanks used around Swansea Docks, would be capable of about 1 Chain. The big problems were coupling stock on such sharp curves, and the over-swing of the middle of bogie wagons. My local steel-works put a Bolster C round one of their sharper curves, and it took out a lineside hut... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 31, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2011 I'd go with Brian on this - tight curves were not necessarily a problem for small locos which were designed to go round them. A far bigger factor I think would have been cost and convenience and whether or not expensive loco power was considered to be need instead of the cheaper alternatives. But steam engines were used in tight places - Huntley & Palmers biscuit factory at Reading had an extensive standard gauge network (and reportedly a narrow gauge one too) and the 40 foot plan I have shows it to have had very tight curves but it was loco worked with, originally, a small fleet of Peckett 0-4-0s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debs. Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 I think a chain is 66ft. (so, 22 yards); but still, an extremely tight curve! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 31, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2011 I think a chain is 66ft. (so, 22 yards); but still, an extremely tight curve! You think right. A wonderfully simple measurement to work within in my view and ideal for scaling on very detailed timetable graphs although something that was none too easy to explain to, say, a Frenchman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 You think right. A wonderfully simple measurement to work within in my view and ideal for scaling on very detailed timetable graphs although something that was none too easy to explain to, say, a Frenchman The lot on CTRL seemed quite happy to talk about 'Le Chainage'; indeed they even had meetings with it in the title.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 31, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2011 I spent an enjoyable afternoon recently, down at Birkenhead docks, measuring the 'actuality' for my Canning St./Egerton Dock model. It came a bit of a surprise when during my surveying, I discovered that some of the still-extant tramway lines; those in setts (especially within the confines of warehouse yards) were as tight as 36 yards radius (and yes, I double checked!)....at last, a scale-use for set-track! Surely they could only have been worked using draught-horses or capstan-winching? The Birkenhead Joint lines sectional appendix has some interesting restrictions for locos on the docks, off to the pub but I'll try and dig it out over the next few days Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 31, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2011 The lot on CTRL seemed quite happy to talk about 'Le Chainage'; indeed they even had meetings with it in the title.. But alas I suspect from the various drawings I saw that they measured in funny foreign units like metres and kilometres. I ought to dig out the Ashford signalling drawings we used for SPAD risk assessment as I've an idea some signal distances are shown in yards and chains while other are in kms/metres depending which piece of railway they are on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heruss Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 But alas I suspect from the various drawings I saw that they measured in funny foreign units like metres and kilometres. I ought to dig out the Ashford signalling drawings we used for SPAD risk assessment as I've an idea some signal distances are shown in yards and chains while other are in kms/metres depending which piece of railway they are on. Oh that happens even now, I was in London yesterday, and one sign showed parking was 300m away, we rounded a corner and then there was another sign... parking 100 yards. Fantastically stupid system. Only Napoleon Bonaparte could come up with something designed to specifically annoy the British! Personally I learnt both metric and imperial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 How about the signs on the side streets off Camden Road: " 6''6 width restriction in 25 m" ..... The turning circle of a bus is about 66' as a matter of interest. As I may have mentioned in another thread, the 22 times table was useful when working the Isle of Wight real ale bar a few years ago. all the drinks were £2.20. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 31, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2011 But alas I suspect from the various drawings I saw that they measured in funny foreign units like metres and kilometres. I ought to dig out the Ashford signalling drawings we used for SPAD risk assessment as I've an idea some signal distances are shown in yards and chains while other are in kms/metres depending which piece of railway they are on. A few strange things have come about with metrication. On the WCML part of the Carlisle PSB job all OLE plans were measured in kilometres from Euston, whilst the signal locations were based on the Lancaster & Carlisle mileages down to Carlisle then Caledonian northwards. On another scheme the designer started off with the locations referenced in metres from the mileposts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 The refurbished/air braked BRT Grain Hoppers (Minibulks) were done for traffic at Birkenhead due to the tight curves on the Docks. Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Railscene 14 has video of 03 162 loose shunting bogie cargowagons of fertilizer into the RHM premises on Birkenhead docks. The commentary says this is due to the sharp curves, and do they look sharp! To get there the wagons were propelled along the A41 Date was 28/1/88 Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.