RMweb Gold Taz Posted December 7, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2009 With the imminent arrival of the Hornby Castles I am starting to think about gathering all the material I need to rename one to the pride of Laira, 5069 Isambard Kingdom Brunel as she was in 1960.. I am hoping that the Hornby release of 5068 Beverston Castle will make a good donor (same batch as IKB). I have already acquired items such as nameplates, a double chimney and external lubricator. However I am struggling to find any pictures of her from the right hand (drivers) side. I have plenty of images of her left hand side. Does anyone know of any images of IKB post 1958 from this angle? Many thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 7, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2009 With the imminent arrival of the Hornby Castles I am starting to think about gathering all the material I need to rename one to the pride of Laira, 5069 Isambard Kingdom Brunel as she was in 1960.. I am hoping that the Hornby release of 5068 Beverston Castle will make a good donor (same batch as IKB). I have already acquired items such as nameplates, a double chimney and external lubricator. However I am struggling to find any pictures of her from the right hand (drivers) side. I have plenty of images of her left hand side. Does anyone know of any images of IKB post 1958 from this angle? Many thanks. Would you believe it - first place I looked and it's a right hand side view B) The pic is dated July 1954 (which might not suit you?), the loco has a Hawksworth tender and looks to be ex-works plus a couple of days, tapered buffer housings, original outside steampipes. Looks exactly the same as 5070. The book is 'Portraits of Castles' by Holden & Leech published by Moorland Publishing Co, 1981, ISBN 0-903485-8903. Almost certainly long out of print but I might find one in the auction lots I'll be looking at tomorrow (all being well etc) although it will no doubt come with another 20 books . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted December 7, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2009 Thanks Mike, but alas that photo won't help me much. She was rebuilt in 1958 with a double chimney and all the trimmings. I'd really like a RHS view so I could get an idea of how big her superheater cover was and any other bits that might have been stuck to her boiler. She also had gained a Collett tender by this date. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 7, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2009 Thanks Mike, but alas that photo won't help me much. She was rebuilt in 1958 with a double chimney and all the trimmings. I'd really like a RHS view so I could get an idea of how big her superheater cover was and any other bits that might have been stuck to her boiler. She also had gained a Collett tender by this date. Cheers. Right Taz - that I can't find quickly (if at all) but I have seen a few pics of 5069 in, I think, later condition. If she was given a double chimney in 1958 she would almost certainly have received mechanical lubricators and a 4 row superheater. That also means that the oil pipe cover between the boiler and smokebox would have changed to the largest type at the same time. Dunno about the outside steampipes tho' - have you got 'Plymouth Steam' - before I start going through it? Not to worry - I have now been through it and found two more pics of the r.h. side both post 1958 although one of them has it as the inside loco on a double-header at Millbay Crossing so I can't see all that much! So double chimney, with the final large pattern of oil pipe cover between the boiler cladding and smokebox, mechanical lubricator in final position ahead of the outside steam pipe, no supplementary oil reservoir for the lubricator, outside steam pipes appear to have been changed to the later curved type (can't be conclusive on that because of the angle of the pics but it definitely looks that way in one pic. One thing which does show up is that the inside cylinder cover below the smokebox has gained the slightly raised central section which appeared on some of the later locos - I'm not sure what drove that particular mod as it appears on some 70XX series locos and on locos with a double chimney. I can't see the buffers on either pic alas. As far as the Hornby one is concerned the cab detail on the pre-production sample looked to be correct for a loco with mechanical lubrication but the rather prominent sandboxes under the cab were missing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Not great quality, but ... 5069 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted December 7, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2009 Thank you both. Mike, which book did you get those photos from -Plymouth Steam? Could you let me know the details? I would definately be interested in acquiring a copy. Can I ask what you are looking at in the cab to know it has / is suitable for a mechanical lubricator? Here is a link to the LHS which shows the buffers and steam pipes quite well: http://alan-lewis-ch.../p11043611.html Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted December 8, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 8, 2009 Thank you both. Mike, which book did you get those photos from -Plymouth Steam? Could you let me know the details? I would definately be interested in acquiring a copy. Can I ask what you are looking at in the cab to know it has / is suitable for a mechanical lubricator? Here is a link to the LHS which shows the buffers and steam pipes quite well: http://alan-lewis-ch.../p11043611.html Thanks again. Taz. I assume you saw the real thing? If not I can verify one thing and that is that in 1960 she was kept as ex Works condition and was (as you suggest) one of Laira's finest. I'm really sorry I have no pics, however, in my mind's eye I can see her now, absolutely gleaming at the head of a rake of choc and cream Mk1s at the north end of Plat 4(?). If I do come across any pics tonight I'll PM you. Happy days 36E GC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted December 8, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2009 Alas, being born in 1974 I never got to see any mainline steam I don't model what I grew up with (otherwise it would all be large logo 50's and HSTs) but rather an era that I find fascinating. Yes, I was aware that as one of Laira's 'Boat Engines' she was kept immaculate. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted December 8, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 8, 2009 Alas, being born in 1974 I never got to see any mainline steam I don't model what I grew up with (otherwise it would all be large logo 50's and HSTs) but rather an era that I find fascinating. Yes, I was aware that as one of Laira's 'Boat Engines' she was kept immaculate. Cheers I have the book mentioned (Plymouth Steam) and there are the two pics mentioned by Stationmaster; one is OK, the other will need (as Stationmaster has intimated) a magnifying glass as it is the second loco of a double header leaving Millbay Docks. IKB was one of several Laira Castles used at this time on Ocean Liner trains and they were kept in tip top mechanical condition and were always superbly clean as you know. If you would like to borrow the book PM me and we can make arrangements, however it is worth having if you are interested in steam around Plymouth at that time. It was compiled by someone that was at my school at the same time as me! Have you tried Googling this loco? Also, if you live in the area, it is possible that the library (or even the Devon C.C.) archive may have some pics? Sincerely, Phil R 36E GC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted December 8, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2009 Thanks Phil, Could either yourself or Mike provide me with the ISBN number for the book. It sounds like one I would like to add to my collection. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted December 15, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2009 Phil, Mike, Is the book you are talking about Plymouth Steam 1954-63 by Ian H Lane? cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 15, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2009 Phil, Mike, Is the book you are talking about Plymouth Steam 1954-63 by Ian H Lane? cheers. That is indeed it, ISBN 0-7110-1439-6, published by Ian Allan in 1984 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted December 15, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2009 Thanks very much Mike. Copy has just been ordered Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWINDONNUT Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I know it's a long time ago now, but here you go. You've probably seen this image many times by now! I was pulled by this loco from Bristol Temple Meads to Westbury in the Summer of 1960. I think it was a Salisbury and Portsmouth train. For the last 53 years I have been wondering how that came about as it was a Laira engine at the time of course. Was it on loan to Bath Road shed or was it working part of some complicated diagram. Does anyone out there know? I certainly didn't imagine it. I also remember being horrified when I discovered it on the dump at Swindon in early 1962. I presume it was simply redundant as it was a relatively early casualty. ADMIN - photo removed due to copyright infringement, please see #5 in http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35-forum-rules/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted July 25, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 25, 2013 Thanks SWINDONNUT. what a wonderful 1st post! Lovely. Interesting as the chimney is taller than I remembered and I have recently mentioned to GWRROB (A Nod to Brent), that my King he has on loan has a double chimney that looks a bit 'tall'. Perhaps I only remember the Castle and King DC's as being seen from platform level so the chimney looked shorter? I know the County chimney was very much more 'stumpy' than these. What a waste of a relatively 'new' loco in 1962, as it was with so many others, especially the Standards and rebuilds (like many of the Bulleids). Fortunately my lasting memory of IKB was at North Road circa 1960/61, absolutely gleaming at the head of probably one of the last Ocean Liner Express services; I think it was also hauling some Centenary coaches but my memory may be playing tricks? Taz, did you enjoy your 'Plymouth Steam'? It was 'compiled' by a bloke that was a year above me at school (I think). I love dipping into it every so often; happy memories. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted July 25, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 25, 2013 Thanks guys. Unfortunately I've come back to this thread after the admin edit so I didn't see the picture. Phil. I did enjoy the book and it is a worthy addition to my collection. Would the centenary coaches you saw not be the super saloons? these were used on the boat trains and have a similar look with the recessed doors. I've assembled all the bits I need for this project (decided on Ince Castle as the donor in the end) but have yet to make a start. I need to hurry up and retire so I have time to do all these railway modelling jobs I have planned, Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 25, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 25, 2013 Thanks guys. Unfortunately I've come back to this thread after the admin edit so I didn't see the picture. Phil. I did enjoy the book and it is a worthy addition to my collection. Would the centenary coaches you saw not be the super saloons? these were used on the boat trains and have a similar look with the recessed doors. I've assembled all the bits I need for this project (decided on Ince Castle as the donor in the end) but have yet to make a start. I need to hurry up and retire so I have time to do all these railway modelling jobs I have planned, Cheers Most likely super saloons at that date I would think. I used to have a chair out of one of them as my office chair - very comfy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted July 25, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 25, 2013 Yup, Supers + a couple of MK1s probably; shows how much I don't know about WR coaching stock despite spending far to long admiring Nod to Brent! P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWINDONNUT Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Sorry about that folks: not very intelligent of me! The offending photo is from an O S Nock book called 'Kings and Castles of the GWR'. It's a little A5 effort SBN 7110 0071 9. Here is IKB on an Ocean Liner Special at Newbury, almost certainly in 1961. It is about 1:30 p.m. by my reckoning so the train will have left North Road around 10 a.m. The passengers will have saved a day's sailing by doing it this way. The double chimney appears to be the standard, cast, eliptical pattern fitted from 1957 onwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Thanks SWINDONNUT. what a wonderful 1st post! Lovely. Interesting as the chimney is taller than I remembered and I have recently mentioned to GWRROB (A Nod to Brent), that my King he has on loan has a double chimney that looks a bit 'tall'. Perhaps I only remember the Castle and King DC's as being seen from platform level so the chimney looked shorter? I know the County chimney was very much more 'stumpy' than these. What a waste of a relatively 'new' loco in 1962, as it was with so many others, especially the Standards and rebuilds (like many of the Bulleids). Hi All, One of the reasons there is sometimes a bit of confusion over chimney height is that fact that all of the double chimneys on Castles and Kings on the main line at the moment have been shortened to get within the gauge. Funnily enough, I was chatting with someone yesterday about it at 81E! Didcot has not only an original and untouched Castle double chimney but also a genuine County unit too and the difference is quite apparent. I hope this (sort of) helps! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Hello all, a good few post back it was asked about the difference between the original type of backhead and one that's fitted to a loco with Mec. lubrication. Original on the left, OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 One of the reasons there is sometimes a bit of confusion over chimney height is that fact that all of the double chimneys on Castles and Kings on the main line at the moment have been shortened to get within the gauge. I thought the limiting factor these days was the height of the safety valve cover, 13' 4.75". Is the loading gauge height (at centre) still 13'6"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted July 26, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 26, 2013 Thanks Ozzy. I think in 4mm on a model travelling at a scale 60-70mph I'll not worry too much about the difference Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 26, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 26, 2013 I thought the limiting factor these days was the height of the safety valve cover, 13' 4.75". Is the loading gauge height (at centre) still 13'6"? 3965mm according to information on Joyce's excellent reference source (although the width allowed at that height varies and is 305mm at its widest I think). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 3965mm according to information on Joyce's excellent reference source That (13' in old money) would rule out chimneys, safety valves and cabs on many GWR 4-6-0s. (And SRM 93!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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