marc smith Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Micro-modeling in ???O???. An attempt at modifying & improving some old Lima O gauge points. Some time ago, whilst discussing my OO layout ???Hendre Lane??? on rmweb, I mentioned a planned O gauge micro-plan I??™d been mulling over. Also in the thread Dave Long discussed improving the appearance of RTR OO track. The O gauge micro plan has been on the ???back burner??? for sometime now, and I??™ve even been building a completely different O gauge minimum-space layout (more of that later??¦). After looking at ???master of the micro??? Stubby??™s various tiny layouts, it got me thinking about my original micro O gauge plan again. Some time back, I bought a couple of old Lima O gauge points on e-bay. The intention was to do a ???Dave Long??? and see if I could improve on the appearance, with a bit of hacking about. The appearance of those old Lima points was even worse than my memory let on!??¦.. The sleepers are very coarse, with awful spacing, and the check-rails and vee are plastic. There??™s also the dreadful, huge box of a switching mechanism at the side of the point. The radius of the point is incredibly tight, and looks awful, with the curve extended as far as it has been. It??™s a wonder that even those Lima 0-6-0 tender locos navigated such track! My intended micro-layout will be a tad over 3 feet long ??“ including fiddle-yard! (I??™ve been thinking of a novel scheme for the fiddle, & hope this idea works!!!) More on the prototype for this little plan later, but for my purposes, the tight radii are a boon! (You can probably guess that I won??™t be running any of my fave class 37??™s!!!) Also, much of the sleepering will be buried in cobble-stones, ash, weeds etc. I took the tattier of the 2 points apart first. So far, I??™ve cut away that awful curve, removed the plastic check-rails and frog, and I??™ve used the rail off-cuts to replace the plastic parts. I??™ll cut away the large switch at a later date ??“ when I??™ve decided on whether to replace the tie-bars, and what switching mechanism/method to opt for. Anyway, so far, I??™m fairly pleased. The points were fairly cheap (less than one point kit for the two!) and it hasn??™t taken long to do (well under an hour!) the ???new??? rails were just superglued into place, but I may revise this later??¦. Any thoughts on this let me know??¦??¦.. You never know, it may spur me on ??“ to get this little layout under way. Cheers Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Looks like an interesting space saver idea, what radius are the lima points? What sort of stuff are you going to run through them? A micro-O layout in 3' sounds interesting too, have you got a track plan yet? I think they'll look ok buried in grime and with the aweful switch at the side removed. Well, come on then, you posted this 11 minutes ago, wheres the follow up Seriously, as a space starved modeller with ambitions of o gauge i'll be watchign this with a lot of interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Looks like an interesting space saver idea, what radius are the lima points? ..... Seriously, as a space starved modeller with ambitions of o gauge i'll be watchign this with a lot of interest. Hello Jack, I'm not sure about the radius of the Lima points.... They really are incredibly tight - I guess they must be around 4 feet? I should measure it really! I've run a few things through the points; Loco-wise, an 08 (Bachmann Brass) is a little tight - it does squeeze through though - It may be that it can be "tweaked" to ease clearances a bit. I'm mainly going to be running 0-4-0 stuff through. I haven't included a track-plan as yet - as I'm prone to changing my mind (well, up till I've built the baseboard!) This little project is a subject not often modelled - but again, I'll keep quiet untill I've progressed a little further (appologies there!!!). As an aside, at Warley the other week, I bought a skytrex O gauge wagon turntable. I've painted that up - but haven't got a project for it as such.... ...but it's a good basis for a really tiny layout, or even just a working diorama. At around 15 inches long, Peco O gauge points are rather space-hungry. C & L kits are quite large radii too. I'm not sure what the tightest radius of Marcway kit is? You don't often see these old Lima examples on e-bay, or anywhere else for that... but I think they're a useful starting-point, if you're using small stock. What are you planning to run? Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 At around 15 inches long, Peco O gauge points are rather space-hungry. C & L kits are quite large radii too. I'm not sure what the tightest radius of Marcway kit is? The tightest advertised is 4', which is the minimum radius Sang Cheng work to I believe. You don't often see these old Lima examples on e-bay, or anywhere else for that... but I think they're a useful starting-point, if you're using small stock. What are you planning to run? The loco fleet so far consists of a pair of terriers and a P. The rest of the stock is short 4-wheel wagons and a couple of 4-wheel brake vans. The P shouldn't be a problem because it has an ultra small wheel base, but i'm a little concerned about the terriers. Like your 08, they may need a bit of encouragement! As I said, i'll be following your progress closely on this one. I have plenty of time tho as only one of the terriers is complete, everything else is still in bits! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NeilHB Posted December 8, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi, I like what you've done with the Lima points, makes a huge difference to them! Will be following this with interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I've been building a US-outline O scale Industrial line for a few years now, though it's been on the back-burner recently and is nowhere near finished. I used Lima track throughout and shortened the points (especially the curves) exactly as you have here. I replaced the switches with Caboose Industries manual ground-throws. I'm informed that these points are 2 foot (yes, TWO foot!) radius... They are far too sharp for British stock with buffers/3-links, and also too sharp for US road engines... The locos (even my Heljan Hymek) can get through them- they just have so much overhang they look silly and would pull stock off, however... using old Atlas Plymouth Switchers they are fine and even 50ft Boxcars can be pushed & pulled through them. The Atlas SW1200 Switcher can also handle trains through them. Here's some pictures... This one is fairly recent:- These two are from early in it's construction:- Your Micro-layout sounds intriguing; I too will be following with interest! You do realise, of course, that O scale in a Boxfile has already been done...? (and I ain't the only one, either..!!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 I've been building a US-outline O scale Industrial line for a few years now, though it's been on the back-burner recently and is nowhere near finished.... Your Micro-layout sounds intriguing; I too will be following with interest! Hi thanks for that... I hadn't realised the Lima points were TWO FOOT radius!!!! I really should have measured!!! Cracking looking little layout there - you must finish it.... Actually, I forgot to mention that I got a Heljan 47 through one point... ...as you say, it looks a bit silly! But I think that Terriers may be able to negotiate the curvature? Worth a try, if the above poster knows anyone with a Lima point? In Gordon Gravetts' 1st book on 7mm modelling, I'm sure there's a picture of a layout with short wheelbase stock (incl 4 + 6 wheel coaches) negotiating a 3 foot 6 radius curve! + It looks pretty good to me" - It's all really a question of keeping the stock in proportion. I remember some years back, seeing a couple of these points in a charity shop at a quid each too!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 But I think that Terriers may be able to negotiate the curvature? Worth a try, if the above poster knows anyone with a Lima point? They might get through it, but I doubt that they'll pull wagons through as well IF you use scale couplers... I have some Lima 16t Minerals with 3-links and they won't touch them - there's not enough stretch in the links and the buffers lock. Of course if you try some sort of auto-coupling like Dinghams etc (or, God Forbid, the original Lima one !! )then you might well make a go of it, but I gave up trying to run British trains on this layout, and started another one instead, using Peco points... that layout has progressed rather more than this US layout, in fact! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I have some Lima 16t Minerals with 3-links and they won't touch them - there's not enough stretch in the links and the buffers lock. So Lima came up with some points that were too tight for their own stock ... can't imagine why they went down Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 So Lima came up with some points that were too tight for their own stock ... can't imagine why they went down No, if you stick with the Lima coupling as supplied, they and all other Lima stock will take the curves; the "Children's layout" at Telford Guildex showed that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 They might get through it, but I doubt that they'll pull wagons through as well IF you use scale couplers... I have some Lima 16t Minerals with 3-links and they won't touch them - there's not enough stretch in the links and the buffers lock...... Hm.... How about pushing the wagons through the points? What have your findings been there? Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 No, if you stick with the Lima coupling as supplied, they and all other Lima stock will take the curves; the "Children's layout" at Telford Guildex showed that. My bad, slight case of brain flatulence over the use of three links ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Hm.... How about pushing the wagons through the points? What have your findings been there? Pulling or pushing; makes no difference; even short British stock doesn't want to know with scale couplers only. I'd say the absolute minimum in such cases would possibly be 4ft radius, though I've personally not used less than 6ft radius (Peco). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I saw a lovely O gauge BLT at a show a long time ago. It had very tight points(can't remember the make, but they may have been Lima or a US make). A very clever bit of design meant that stock always used the straight direction going forwards, and trailed through the curve. I hope the last sentence made more sense to you than it did to me! As I recall it used 3 link couplings, but over long to allow for the curves. Again, pushing only happened in the straight direction. With a bit of luck the builder will read this and explain better, or at least someone else's memory will have been jogged. It would have been a show in the Herts/Beds area. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Pulling or pushing; makes no difference; even short British stock doesn't want to know with scale couplers only. I'd say the absolute minimum in such cases would possibly be 4ft radius, though I've personally not used less than 6ft radius (Peco). Hi, I'll probably go for 7mm spratt & winkle couplings, as I've been using them for EM, OO layouts. The "delayed action" type have a forward-facing "protrusion", which I think will prevent buffer lock? Perhaps someone has tried using 7mm S & W's on very tight radii?? Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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