Blackberry Playbook

[edcayton]

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A friend has just got one for £169 from Curries on line. I was very impressed with it, but I am easily impressed!

 

Does anybody on here have any experience/thoughts of these?

 

 

Ed

[Miss LMS]

Im only speaking through an experience of my friend who owns a blackberry and wishes she didnt. She says the text network it uses frequently breaks down, they freeze alot, lose data and is generally a waste of money.

As from personal experience I wouldnt waste my money on it to be honest, its alot to pay for such a little thing that seems to break down more than your average phone!

[Revolution Mike]

I am not sure if Miss LMS is commenting on Blackberrys in general or Playbooks.

 

But either way at that price Playbooks are a steal provided you accept/understand the limitations compared to say an Android tablet or Ip*d. FWIW there are various workarounds to get many Android apps running on the Playbook.

 

I guess it really depends on why you want a tablet. I like the 7inch form factor (much more than the 10" form) as it feels more like a book to me and I use mine (Galaxy Tab) for reading books/comics/magazines etc as well general browsing/watching films.

 

Cheers, Mike

[Ron Ron Ron]

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the Playbook is really intended for use in conjunction with a Blackberry phone and Blackberry account and isn't so good without them.

 

These were initially on sale for a few hundred £££'s but they slashed the prices because take-up has been very poor (the same story of poor sales results has afflicted HP's tablet and many of those producing Android tablets too).

 

Something else to consider is the very limited app store and the fact that RIM, the makers of Blackberry, are in financial difficulties at the moment.

 

It your choice, but personally I'd Avoid.

 

 

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[roundhouse]

personally I would stick with either iOS which is used on ipads or Android tablets as many more apps are available on these devices than the Playbook. in particular to model railway DCC operation is the low cost Wi Throttle on iOS or free Engine Driver n Android.

 

one big advantage of Android in that it supports Flash, used on many websites, which iOS doesnt support.

[Ron Ron Ron]

one big advantage of Android in that it supports Flash, used on many websites, which iOS doesnt support.

 

Indeed and one reason Adobe are no longer continuing development of Flash for mobile operating systems; effectively abandoning it, having run its course.

I also see that Microsoft won't be supporting Flash in the front end of Windows 8 either, so it won't run on W8 tablets or the Metro front interface that'll replace the traditional Windows desktop.

 

I guess it's just as well that more and more websites can provide alternatively based content.

 

 

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[Revolution Mike]

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the Playbook is really intended for use in conjunction with a Blackberry phone and Blackberry account and isn't so good without them.

 

In what way?

 

These were initially on sale for a few hundred £££'s but they slashed the prices because take-up has been very poor (the same story of poor sales results has afflicted HP's tablet and many of those producing Android tablets too).

 

Something else to consider is the very limited app store

 

On the apps you can install many that are designed for Android - I must be writing in that trendy invisible ink again!

[sulzer27jd]

Had one issued by work, along with a BB phone. The playbook relies heavily on 3rd party apps to make it even remotely useable for storing and retrieving files. Awkward interface for attaching files to e-mail.

 

I have replaced both with iphone an ipad, but there are other alternatives. Even at the price quoted i would say - dont. Save up and get a proper tablet.

 

j

[Ron Ron Ron]

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the Playbook is really intended for use in conjunction with a Blackberry phone and Blackberry account and isn't so good without them.

In what way?

 

As I said, I may be wrong, but I'm sure I remember something about certain apps like email, contacts etc, require the user to have paired the Playbook with a Blackberry phone. They may have since changed that?

 

.

[iL Dottore]

I'm reading this thread on an iPad (2nd generation) and whilst a useful device, I have a number of gripes with iPad. Top of the list is having to use the iTunes software to manage my apps, photos and music and with Mr Jobs ensuring that Apple controls what you can do with the software and with all the restrictions in place, this means that I am limited to what I can do with my iPad Content AND it also means I have to do things the Apple way, which is not always the way I'd choose. Android based systems, I understand, are much more flexible (as an aside, I read something about an ITunes emulator for Windows, but I've not yet found it. I'd love to get it, as it promises iTunes ease-of-use with non-iTunes flexibility).

 

Secondly, the Apple software suffers from the "not developed here" syndrome - which means that many websites that use Java or other "not developed by Apple" software are effectively very limited in functionality (at best) when accessed via the iPad.

 

I have considered getting an alternative tablet/pad device, I have a WLAN at home and at work and for the most part there are enough free WiFi hotspots around that I don't need a roaming mobile phone/Internet service provider. So I'm flexible as to what model I'd buy (assuming the device is not blocked from sale by an Apple lawsuit).

 

So I'd say to the OP, decide what you want the pad for and then go look for the most suitable device, which may not end up being an Apple or Blackberry device.

 

F

[Ron Ron Ron]

.....I have a number of gripes with iPad. Top of the list is having to use the iTunes software to manage my apps, photos and music and with Mr Jobs ensuring that Apple controls what you can do with the software and with all the restrictions in place, this means that I am limited to what I can do with my iPad Content AND it also means I have to do things the Apple way, which is not always the way I'd choose.

 

Hi Doc, have you come to this conclusion yourself, or have you been reading various anti-Apple gripes?

The restrictions you talk about are of no consequence in practice and to the normal user are completely transparent.

AFAICS, it really only affects software developers and people who like to tamper and fiddle around with software.

 

Apple do operate a "walled garden" regime for acquiring apps to run on their devices, but at least that ensures that garbage software and malicious apps are kept out. Something Google are said to be worried about, as the Android marketplace is being swamped with malicious malware and bogus apps.

The restrictions on usage are hardly any different to the licencing requirements for Microsoft software.

 

The requirement to use iTunes to transport files and apps may be a genuine gripe for many, but Apple have done this for perfectly understandable commercial reasons; plus it allows for seamless integration with Mac computers.

 

....as an aside, I read something about an ITunes emulator for Windows, but I've not yet found it. I'd love to get it, as it promises iTunes ease-of-use with non-iTunes flexibility....

 

I'm not sure what you mean by an emulator?

iTunes has always been available for use on Windows computers.

 

Secondly, the Apple software suffers from the "not developed here" syndrome - which means that many websites that use Java or other "not developed by Apple" software are effectively very limited in functionality (at best) when accessed via the iPad.

 

???

Do you mean the lack of Flash support?

The iPad does not support Flash; a decision taken by Steve Jobs and his team at the outset. They gave good reasons for that at the time.

Contentious back then, but it looks like they will be vindicated by subsequent events.

As a result, the success of the iPad has played its part in hastening the end of Flash, which its creators, Adobe, are no longer developing for mobile operating systems and is due to be replaced on desktops and laptops in due course.

 

Microsoft have also decided not to support Flash and other 3rd party plug-ins on their new Windows 8 operating system. So no Flash for the forthcoming Windows 8 tabs either.

To top it all, Google have now said they won't be continuing development of Flash for Android and intend to drop support for it in due course.

 

I have considered getting an alternative tablet/pad device, ...... So I'm flexible as to what model I'd buy .....

 

Just be careful what you buy. There's a lot of substandard product out there and some complete rubbish.

The market is full of manufacturers thrashing around trying to offer their own unique take on the tablet form factor and trying to differentiate themselves in some way or other. Mostly it's a big fail.

On the other hand, there are numerous cheap and often rubbish tablets available, many of which are only fit for the dustbin

 

Even quite good tablets, which are still "not quite there" may be a problem if their manufacturers drop them and cease support.

The once biggest PC manufacturer HP, dropped its own tablet within weeks of launching it to great fan-fair. This shocked the industry.They've continued with it at low key, possibly to clear their huge stockpile of unsold product.

Motorola's highly praised first Xoom turned out to be less than perfect following an initial sales success based mostly on hype. Then those sales dried up almost completely and the "press" went cold on it due to its limitations. Motorola withdrew the product pretty quickly and have recently come out with a mk2 model.

Dell have withdrawn its own Tablets from the marketplace, having failed to get a foothold.

 

From what I can see, it's not all doom and gloom, with a couple of manufacturers finally coming up with tabs that are credible alternatives to the iPad. The next wave will probably bring some very good choices to the marketplace.

In the meantime, I think all eyes will be on the forthcoming iPad 3.

 

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[roundhouse]

I have both an original ipad and a number of Android devices. Below are number of things i have found using these.

 

If you want somehting simple to use straight off but with no means of memory expansion (apart form cloud or a separate wifi storage facility) then the ipad is a clear winner in my view and htis is probably why its sales are so far ahead of the rest (aswell as just tha fact of the Apple name on it). I can use my ipad much more easily after quite a few beers than my Xoom.

 

However I have also found that Android is also a very easy and versatile system. I have one of the original Motrola Xooms and when it first came out it didnt support the built in micro SD card slot. After some firmware updates by Motorolla, this now works and is one of the main reasons I like Android. The Xoom does have its occassional crash along with some of the apps but so does my ipad. The camera on the Xoom whilst not as good as some other newer Android tablets it is of a higher resolution than that on the ipad 2. Hopefully this will be resolved in the ipad 3.

 

I have an Android phone and all the info between my ANdroid devices syncronises very well - I would say in my experience better than the ipad and iphone ipod devices (I have an umber of ipods and an old iphone running Wi Throttle on DCC control).

 

I have some of the cheaper Android tablets by Archos which are intended to be used as video and power point displays on the layouts. WHilst the sotrage and specification is lower, they play HD viseo pretty well. They dont have camreas on the back of them and as a consequence dont have Android Marketplace on them when bought (Android Market place dictates certain specs for such devices). However searching online there are useful forums that show you how to easily install Android Marketplace with out jialbreaking (or rooting in Android terms) these devices. So these devices do get used at home on the wifi regularly but they are not 3D high speed graphic gaming devices.

 

If all you want to do is browse the web, read an online magazine and play Angry Birds then some of these cheaper Android devices aren't bad but as Ron says there are some very basic ones out there which probably arent worth getting.

 

Some of the latest Android devices really do give the ipad a run for their money in terms of specification weight and size.

 

The original Xoom is still available in stores and generally at a much reduced price, even the 3G version, so if you dotn want the latest cutting edge tablet then this could be a good option being a much lower price.

 

DO watch out as some of the latest Android tablets dont do a 3G option and like the Xoom 2 doesn't have a micro SD card slot. The Samusng Galaxy tabs are very nice but I wont be getting one as there is no micro SD slot on them either (if it did, then the 3G one would be replacing both my ipad and Xoom).

 

Anyone wanting to buy a tablet, I would suggest have a play with them in a store to see how you like the interface, handling etc then go and do a bit more research on the ones that feel right as at the end of the day if a tablet has all the specs in it but you dont like the way it handles in your hands then you wont want to use it much. (.

 

Ian

[iL Dottore]

...The restrictions you talk about are of no consequence in practice and to the normal user are completely transparent.

AFAICS, it really only affects software developers and people who like to tamper and fiddle around with software....

Guilty as charged... I started with computers in the late 70s (remember Fortran and programmes written on punched cards?) and I do like to customise the computer set up to my preferences...

Apple do operate a "walled garden" regime for acquiring apps to run on their devices, but at least that ensures that garbage software and malicious apps are kept out. Something Google are said to be worried about, as the Android marketplace is being swamped with malicious malware and bogus apps.

Good point.

The requirement to use iTunes to transport files and apps may be a genuine gripe for many, but Apple have done this for perfectly understandable commercial reasons; plus it allows for seamless integration with Mac computers.

That's the biggest problem, both Mrs iD and I have our own iPhones and iPads and we use only one iTunes set up on one PC, but even so iTunes won't back up any apps that she buys and downloads directly onto her iPhone to our PC (but, surprisingly, it works the other way round)

I'm not sure what you mean by an emulator?

iTunes has always been available for use on Windows computers.

I understood it to be a non-Apple software that can work with iPhones, iPhones and iPads doing pretty much what iTunes does, but is customisable (unlike iTunes)... Perhaps it's an urban myth

 

Don't get me wrong, I like iPads and iPhones and I await with interest the forthcoming next generation iPad (it'll be a Birthday gift for Mrs iD) and I am well aware of the limitations of the "other" tablets out there, but still the "inner geek" in me wants to be able to play with the software...

[Revolution Mike]

Do you mean the lack of Flash support?

The iPad does not support Flash; a decision taken by Steve Jobs and his team at the outset. They gave good reasons for that at the time.

Contentious back then, but it looks like they will be vindicated by subsequent events.

As a result, the success of the iPad has played its part in hastening the end of Flash, which its creators, Adobe, are no longer developing for mobile operating systems and is due to be replaced on desktops and laptops in due course.

 

Microsoft have also decided not to support Flash and other 3rd party plug-ins on their new Windows 8 operating system. So no Flash for the forthcoming Windows 8 tabs either.

To top it all, Google have now said they won't be continuing development of Flash for Android and intend to drop support for it in due course.

 

Apple have been in no way vindicated in not supporting Flash! The reality of Flash now (not when Jobs made the decision) is that has been overtaken by other software - MS (Silverlight), Google (HTML5) and even Adobe (Air) have other methods they wish to push out.

 

Even quite good tablets, which are still "not quite there" may be a problem if their manufacturers drop them and cease support.

The once biggest PC manufacturer HP, dropped its own tablet within weeks of launching it to great fan-fair. This shocked the industry.They've continued with it at low key, possibly to clear their huge stockpile of unsold product.

<snip>Dell have withdrawn its own Tablets from the marketplace, having failed to get a foothold.

 

I am not sure that your reasoning is quite on the money - Apple (unusually for Apple) priced the Ipad at a price point that is very hard to meet the same specs and the price. HP bombed because they used WebOS (plus a reasonably high price at the start) - I am not sure there is room for more than iOS and Android. Dell suffered in that their offering was to be frank pretty poor.

 

iL Dottore - there are a number of media player programmes that will act like itunes eg Amarok, Media Monkey etc etc

 

Cheers, Mike

[Miss LMS]

I am not sure if Miss LMS is commenting on Blackberrys in general or Playbooks.

 

But either way at that price Playbooks are a steal provided you accept/understand the limitations compared to say an Android tablet or Ip*d. FWIW there are various workarounds to get many Android apps running on the Playbook.

 

I guess it really depends on why you want a tablet. I like the 7inch form factor (much more than the 10" form) as it feels more like a book to me and I use mine (Galaxy Tab) for reading books/comics/magazines etc as well general browsing/watching films.

 

Cheers, Mike

 

It was Blackberry in general lol

[roundhouse]

Mike

 

Do you have to Jailbreak the Playbook to get Android apps on it?

 

Ian

[Ron Ron Ron]

I'm not sure what you mean by an emulator?

iTunes has always been available for use on Windows computers.

I understood it to be a non-Apple software that can work with iPhones, iPhones and iPads doing pretty much what iTunes does, but is customisable (unlike iTunes)... Perhaps it's an urban myth

iL Dottore - there are a number of media player programmes that will act like itunes eg Amarok, Media Monkey etc etc

 

I understand you now Doc. As Mike says, there are plenty of other media player programmes, some are very good and support a good selection of formats, including hi-res for those that want it.

 

Apple have been in no way vindicated in not supporting Flash! The reality of Flash now (not when Jobs made the decision) is that has been overtaken by other software - MS (Silverlight), Google (HTML5) and even Adobe (Air) have other methods they wish to push out.

 

Hi Mike, I didn't suggest Jobs decided the marketplace. Apple saw the way the wind was blowing and didn't want to burden their devices (in their mind) with it, or pay the licences fees.

From what I can see, Adobe have all sorts of developments in progress, but more than a few commentators have said the market penetration of the iPad has been a factor in them dropping Flash (as is) earlier than expected.

 

HP bombed because they used WebOS (plus a reasonably high price at the start) - I am not sure there is room for more than iOS and Android.

 

A widely held view and something that will give Microsoft an uphill battle to deal with when W8 is released.

Mind you, if the front end on W8 PC's and laptops is the same as on Windows tablets, they may have a chance.

 

To me being an ordinary "punter" and industry outsider, I always thought HP's WebOS and Blackberry's own OS would present them with difficulties.

Sounds a bit like what happens to non-NMRA proprietary digital control systems?

 

Dell suffered in that their offering was to be frank pretty poor.

 

From all accounts that sums up a lot of other tablet products too.

Several large computer and consumer electronics company's have been bankrolling similarly half baked products too.

No sooner have they released one, it's quickly replaced by another. They must be wasting a fortune trying to jump on this particular bandwagon.

The thing that baffles me is how some of them try to put their own unique twist on the concept, in order to differentiate their products from others.

Twisting screens, split screens, transformers, tablets that dock inside a laptop, sloping backs, odd shapes...what next, a Tomato shaped tablet ? Somehow, I think they've missed the point?

 

 

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[Revolution Mike]

Ian

 

Yes and no! Version 2 of the OS (which may be available now) has the functionality to repackage *some* Android apps without the need to root the device, however if you want full access to the Android Marketplace you can root it IIRC.

 

Cheers, Mike

[roundhouse]

Thanks Mike

 

That is a big plus if the latest version of the OS will support some Android apps. I have not been a fan of rooting or Jailbreaking devices as nomrally when a firmware update comes out, you have to redo the rooting but good to know a Playbook (like the HP web OS) can be made useful shoud Blackberry give up on the device.

 

I was thinking of buyinf a Playbook when in the USA recently as they were being sold very cheaply but ended up buying a Kindle Fire whihc has proved a bit of a pain as need a USA address (not a problem as just use the hotel address) and a USA credit card. Found a way round it whilst over there but that method failed to work back here so cant install any more apps to those we had installed whilst in the USA. It is a similar size and shape to the Playbook. WIll work Ok once its released this side of the pond I hope.

 

Ian

[Ron Ron Ron]

.....ended up buying a Kindle Fire whihc has proved a bit of a pain as need a USA address (not a problem as just use the hotel address) and a USA credit card. Found a way round it whilst over there but that method failed to work back here so cant install any more apps to those we had installed whilst in the USA. It is a similar size and shape to the Playbook. WIll work Ok once its released this side of the pond I hope.

 

The Kindle Fire does sound very interesting Ian, but when it's released here, I think people have to be very clear about what it is; less of a normal tablet and more of a portal to the the Amazon world of content.

How do you find it purely as a device?

 

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[roundhouse]

Ron

 

Yes it is a well built nice to handle device and at the price it is good as a book reader ###### web browser etc but it is no ipad / top end Android replacement as there is no GPS camera on the back etc and memory is only about 8Gb IIRC. As you say its more a portal which I was aware when getting it as a birthday present for the other half. Also got it so she could subscribe to the US magazines that she currently buys over here but it turns out that the magazine she gets, you have to have a subscription to the hard copy before you can download the electronic one which is way different to all other magazines we have subscribed to via Zinio on other devices.

 

the other issue is that whilst we got the work around on the address (and the credit card - dont need the credit card for anything but the download of apps, even free ones) we bought prepaid Amazon gift cards in the USA and loaded them onto the Fire to buy magazines. The magazine subscription worked over here for a while then it must have picked up the non USA IP address and then cancelled the subscriptions, so now we can only buy single issues (it didn't charge the full yearly subscription).

 

So I suspect the UK one will have similar restrictions when its released which is a pity as this doesnt happen on other Android based devices.

 

Yet to try using the Fire running Engine Driver (which I downloaded whilst in the USA) on our DCC set up.

 

Ian

[Ron Ron Ron]

So I suspect the UK one will have similar restrictions when its released which is a pity as this doesnt happen on other Android based devices.

 

Thanks Ian.

That's pretty much what I've read already, so it's goods to get a first hand opinion from someone.

I guess the content restrictions are all about copyright, IP and licensing.

The global marketplace hasn't yet reached the world of books, music, videos, movies and TV shows.

 

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[roundhouse]

Ron

 

Yes but it is strange that Amazon have locked down the apps despite being an amended version of Android as the ones on Android marketplace being able to be downloaded in many countries regardless of where your device is registered. We have found a few Android apps that you cant get over here but when over in USA you can get them, but its not the majority though. Amazon say it is due to licensing but me being more cynical thinks its a way of Amazon controlling you.

 

The Fire can be rooted but I need the file explorer app on ther to do so and I forgot to install one whilst in the USA. Just hope we can get back over there soon!

 

Ian

[Ron Ron Ron]

.......Amazon say it is due to licensing but me being more cynical thinks its a way of Amazon controlling you.

AFAICS Amazon's sole reason for being in this market space, is to sell content. They are not in it to sell tablet PC's.

By providing hardware with a degree of tie-in or lock down, they can channel the user to their content.

The low, possibly cost price Fire and the popularity and high profile of the Kindle eReaders and the Amazon brand generally sound like a recipe for success.

It's pretty much what Apple does, although in that case they are a hardware company too.

 

I've read that the rumour from inside Google, is that they feel they may have made a huge mistake in rolling out Android as an open OS, rather than capitalising on the potential. All they get to sell is an OS, once !

I'm inclined to think that's probably true. They've spent a lot of time, money and resource on the Chrome OS and their version of the Cloud, while missing the big bucks. Will that ever repay them?

 

 

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