D5541 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Evening all I have a lima class 50 (not dcc chipped) that showed no signs of life when I got it so it's been sat on a shelf for several months. I stuck it on some track tonight however n although it sounds like someone stirring a bucket of gravel it stuttered backwards n forwards for 6 inches in either direction. So going to give it a bit of an oil and a run in but have a couple questions... 1) Where do I put the oil, just the gears on the axles or is there anywhere on the motor that'll need doing? 2) Having never run in a loco before, how long do I give it in either direction? 3) As slow speed running is abysmal, is it ok to start it at speed and run it down or do I have to start slowly and build up speed? Cheers Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzgresleyfan Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Morning! You don't mention if you tried the loco on a dc layout or on dcc and trying to run the loco on the setting for a non-chipped example. I have no experience of the latter, the notes below are for straight dc operation. First bet would be to make sure the wheels are clean, that may take care of the stuttering. Lima motors are renowned for being noisy anyway but I have had success in quietening them down. Oiling does help so long as you use just the smallest amount, I have a bottle with a very fine tube on the end that ensures placement of only a drop at a time. 1) Oil each gear where it is attached to the motor casing; you could also apply some to the armature bearings but be very careful doing this, too much and you'll be stripping the motor down to clean it... So long as the gears are secure on their mounts you shouldn't have any trouble with them, oiling the teeth themselves will only cause the oil to spin off onto the track. This will cause the tyres to slip on the wheels before they fail completely and will cause all sorts of trouble for other locos. I have heard of people using the grease sold for radio control cars on their locos but have no idea how successful this would be or whether it has an adverse effect later on. Perhaps others here have had experience with this idea. 2) I suspect that if it's a pre-loved loco it's well run in already and just in need of a service. To answer the question generally though; different people will say a different length of time, I'm usually happy after an hour of trouble free running in each direction. 3) I would never advocate starting at speed, if there is something wrong with it that a service wouldn't fix you will probably end up doing more damage to it. Lima motors are very basic and are easy to maintain, I have over thirty of them in service and haven't had one of them fail; some are over thirty years old. If the wheels are clean and the brushes in good condition then it should run well at low speed. When checking the brushes make sure you don't lose the spring... Good luck! Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzgresleyfan Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'd better clarify on 2. Those using the grease for r/c cars applied it to the teeth only, anywhere else and you'll gum the works up... I think the stuff is called molybdenum. Like I said, I've never used it and can't vouch for its being effective. Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Just echoing what Rob has said above, start by checking the cleanliness of the wheels. Lima blackened their wheels and it can be sometimes difficult to see the dirt - it has a nasty habbit of collecting right in the portion of wheel where the tyre meets the flange. Personally, I used to take all the blackening off the lima wheels with a brass brush on a minidrill, but if you don't want to do that, use either a glass fibre pen or some IPA on a cloth. Also, check that the pick ups are all in order and touching the backs of the tyres, where they should do. Make sure there are no obstructoins around the gearing before you oil it. Depending on who had the loco before you, it could possibly have been run on something like a carpet, where fibres will get attached to the gears and cause the stuttering you describe. Once you've done all that, I would bet that the carbon brushes will need replacing. I have seen the odd lima loco behaving as you describe when one or both of the brushes are worn right down, and my first thought was a brush problem on reading your OP. If, after doing all of the above, you are still having issues, it may be a more serious issue with the motor windings. If that is the case, it's probably worth your while just getting a replacement Lima motor - most exhibitions have someone selling Lima spares/locos. HTH cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crompton 33 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 all so check the wire that run's to the rear bogie . this wire can brake inside as it is thin. i would change this for a thicker wire. check your traction tyres as well as they split with age and fall off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delticman Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The gears on Lima locos are very rough and this adds to the noise made by the motor. One way of quietening the gears is to put toothpaste on them and run the loco for a while. The light abrasive in the toothpaste cuts away at any high spots on the nylon gears allowing them to mesh more accurately so making them quieter. Obviously all traces of the paste must be removed afterwards and a little vaseline applied. A bonus is the pleasant minty smell that is emitted from the loco during this process Geoff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzgresleyfan Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The gears on Lima locos are very rough and this adds to the noise made by the motor. One way of quietening the gears is to put toothpaste on them and run the loco for a while. The light abrasive in the toothpaste cuts away at any high spots on the nylon gears allowing them to mesh more accurately so making them quieter. Obviously all traces of the paste must be removed afterwards and a little vaseline applied. A bonus is the pleasant minty smell that is emitted from the loco during this process Geoff. This was the thinking expressed to me by the blokes using the r/c car grease. Might even try one of the options myself... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D5541 Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 Brief reply as the nights libations have taken effect... It's a Hornby select DCC controller i use, with the '00' analogue setting for non chipped stuff the gears were suitably oiled whitch cured the bucket of gravel noise, still a loud motor though, had an N gauge lima deltic which was just as noisy. in terms of pick ups in contact with wheels, only looked at the trailing bogie, but the pickups are on the axles, not the back of the wheels, not looked at the motor bogie yet. it now runs pretty well, still prone to stall at slow speed but havent really given the wheels much attention yet. I know lima 50 bogies are underscale so need replacing anyways but some problems noted once it was running are.... ok on 2nd radius set track curves but some wheelspin encountered, spins like a bitch on 1st radius curves? The wheels dont spin freely on the trailing bogie so I'm assuming some of the slip comes from dragging that around at slow speeds, it will derail coming out of curves (2nd radius), the power bogie doesnt seem to pivot smoothly, any way to rectify this? That aside, it lives, and after an hour or so running light engine it hauled a small mixed goods round an oval of track without issue so I'm not giving up on it yet Cheers Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzgresleyfan Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I'm not overly familiar with the perils of running unchipped locos on the analogue setting but I am aware of some owners who refuse to do it in case damage to either loco or control system occurs. Others have told me locos will run on their system without a chip however performance is erratic. Is it possible that your 50 fits the latter description? On later Lima trailing bogies there were two sets of pickups fitted; the originals as you describe and a second set bearing on a groove behind the insulated wheels. AFAIK this was never an option on the 50, or the Deltic for that matter. I wouldn't recommend changing the bogies as like the Deltic the loco dimensions have been played with to suit the bogies. Scale bogies will throw the proportions out. If the size of the bogies bother you then a better option would be to replace the whole loco with the modern Hornby option. Personally I wouldn't stress about the loco slipping on tight curves, this is pretty much par for the course. Try to avoid it though as you will only end up having to replace the tyres. My Lima locos will easily haul 8 or 9 coaches on layouts that avoid using set track radii. The trailing wheels shouldn't be causing enough drag to affect performance; if you're encountering this problem the easiest option is to ease off the tension in the pickups a little. The power bogie catching on the frame is a common Lima problem and is easily fixed. Drop the bogie out and run a file over the area on the frame where the two come in contact; pay special attention to the vertical faces. Sometimes these areas can be a bit tight, the file will take care of it easily. No need to put a lot of effort into it, usually only a few passes of the file over each end is sufficient to cure the problem. Sounds like you're making good progress, good luck with the next bit! Regards, Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I am looking at upgrading my Lima 50 and from what I gather, if you want a smoother driving chassis, the best replacement is a class 37 one. Might just be the ViTrains one, I can't remember, but transplanting the side frames to that chassis should help with a number of your problems, leaving just the one of how to get the body to stay on.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crompton 33 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 the lima class 50 's chassis is longer then the class 37's by about 1;in. so the V1train's will not fit. plus the detail is all wrong. best thing to do is get a Hornby class 50 chassis. or just sale it and get a Hornby one with all the detail wright. i have a lima 50 that's up for sale as it's to mutch work to convert. plus the cost it's not worth it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzgresleyfan Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I am looking at upgrading my Lima 50 and from what I gather, if you want a smoother driving chassis, the best replacement is a class 37 one. Might just be the ViTrains one, I can't remember, but transplanting the side frames to that chassis should help with a number of your problems, leaving just the one of how to get the body to stay on.... the lima class 50 's chassis is longer then the class 37's by about 1;in. so the V1train's will not fit. plus the detail is all wrong. best thing to do is get a Hornby class 50 chassis. or just sale it and get a Hornby one with all the detail wright. i have a lima 50 that's up for sale as it's to mutch work to convert. plus the cost it's not worth it If you're planning on using a Hornby chassis then make sure it's the Railroad one, as has already been noted the Lima model is underscale. Anything originating from a 37; Lima, ViTrain or other, won't fit. Really, if you're looking to perform any kind of upgrade on your 50 you might as well save the money and put it towards towards the newer Hornby offering. Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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