plarailfan Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 http://youtu.be/y_yJ7aZP8x0 I found this on youtube, but I couldn't understand how the interlocking on the points were able to assist with the collision rather than prevent it from happening. They are hand points, but surely the points should have been set in the "normal" position, for the DMU to go straight ahead ?? and the "signalman" was very slow to react too !! Watch the railcar driver swing his right arm in dismay, when he realises his error. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 29, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 29, 2012 What interlocking on the points? The point where the 'kiss' occurred was clearly a handpoint and no doubt the one at the other end of what is in effect a crossover is also a handpoint - change one end and nothing will happen at the other. Move the railcar having just trailed through a point and expecting the road to reset itself is not the sort of magic which works with handpoints although a few have no doubt expected it over the years (in Britain as well as elsewhere). Simply a typical job where some inexperience appears to have applied, 'Driver suitably instructed for the future' to check the position of handpoints before moving through them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinw62 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 It looks staged to me. I say this because of the way it has been shot, it all looks too professional with all the angles and the way the film has been edited together. It's doesn't look to me like something that a railfan caught on their camcorder. ColinW Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted February 29, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 29, 2012 It looks staged to me. The same thought occurred to me. Oh well, at least the panel beaters in the workshop got some practice out of it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 29, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 29, 2012 It looks staged to me. I say this because of the way it has been shot, it all looks too professional with all the angles and the way the film has been edited together. It's doesn't look to me like something that a railfan caught on their camcorder. ColinW Somehow I don't think anybody would want to 'stage' something like that which at minimum would result in damage to stock and at worst could lead to serious injury - plus they have the 'fun' of sorting it out (and it is somewhat more difficult to separate the results of something like that than it is for it to happen in the first place - you can get an awful lot of damage in the separation stage). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Could be that the man on the ground was signalling the steam train to move off, but both drivers "took the signal". Unfortunately the film doesn't include the time when any hand signal would have been given. The diesel driver didn't react as his train took the diverging route over the points, which suggests he was expecting to take that route but not expecting the steam train to start moving as well. This is admittedly slightly odd, as the railcar had just been shunted out of the way of the steam train! I think the camera had been set up (perhaps on a tripod) to get a good shot of the steam train starting away, and happened to record this event instead. This would account for the "professional" quality of the filming without any question of the event being staged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 it would also explain why no one paid any attention to the point lever shown at 49 sec taken standing between steam and diesel looking towards direction of travel. can only assume that the diesel had come off the stock shown in the siding and was expecting to run round it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 29, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 29, 2012 The majority of station points are hand thrown on the Harz and many are able to be trailed through too. Operating procedures mean you don't need interlocking as the signals only give authority to approach the points not assume they're set. If it was out on the main line and speeds were higher then you'd have a good reason for interlocking with signals. The system was very common in Europe and even big NG systems like the RhB have a slightly more sophisticated version, theirs have the main loop points remotely controlled but all sidings etc at stations controlled by manual points. It's clear on many Harz videos that the station staff set the points. Certainly not staged as it made news when it happened. As Mike said even a minor sideswipe can lead to big paint scrapes, footsteps and other bits getting severely mangled and welded brackets getting ripped off. It can also break springs and spread the track due to the high side forces. Driver error due to a lack of clear understanding with the station staff was the reason given at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45669 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I have seen places on the continent where the two points forming a crossover are worked completely indepentently of each other which seemed strange to my eyes as I am used to both points in a crossover working together off one lever. It always struck me that the continental system could lead to incidents such as the one shown in the YouTube clip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I have seen places on the continent where the two points forming a crossover are worked completely indepentently of each other which seemed strange to my eyes as I am used to both points in a crossover working together off one lever. It always struck me that the continental system could lead to incidents such as the one shown in the YouTube clip. Locally hand operated points were more or less the norm at many smaller stations in Europe and operation was based far more on responsible station staff on the ground than control by signalboxes. There were/are also a lot more trailing of points with the switch blades often held over by weighted levers so you would only need to set the facing point in a crossover. It has always struck me as slightly odd that even slow speed narrow gauge lines in Britain often have the whole paraphernalia of ground frames, facing point locks and full signalling of every movement when the rest of the world manages to achieve a similar level of safety far more simply. There always has though been a difference in philosophy which goes back to the early days of railways and the types of people employed for operational roles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hughes Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 The Ffestiniog was certainly using weighted point levers and no interlocking on the loop at Tanybwlch and possibly other places well into the 1960s, and I think that the Great Orme Tramway had them until a very few years ago, when they were implicated in a rather spectacular low-speed derailment. I seem to remember that the suggestion was made that they'd been tampered with. The run-round point at Devil's Bridge on the VoR is still of that type, but of course no passenger trains run over it - unless someone foolishly pushes the coaches a bit too far! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothernapia Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 i thought they drove from the righthand side of the footplate, that means the steam loco driver would have been the side of the cab nearest to the railcar and see it move, when i am on the foot plate i check the road infront of my train but if a vehicle moves alongside me i have a glance at his path, if its conflicting i can then stop hopefuly. regards darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted April 1, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 1, 2012 But the driver may be looking back as the train starts with the fireman checking ahead, as with all incidents it's a combination of factors that leads to it. How many times have you avoided something going wrong because you stopped? The fact that you check other routes suggests you recognise the possibility but what if the fireman asks a question and distracts you? The railway attributed it to the Railcar. Having seen the results of a couple of sideswipes and seeing that they do happen every now and again in the UK on units with much better forward views I'd say fatigue and people in a rush are far more likely to forget the simple checks you mention. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45669 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 To answer the original question, the points aren't interlocked! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted April 3, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2012 What interlocking on the points? The point where the 'kiss' occurred was clearly a handpoint and no doubt the one at the other end of what is in effect a crossover is also a handpoint To answer the original question, the points aren't interlocked! Warm StationMasters post, which was the very first reply if it doesn't show through Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted April 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4, 2012 Ah so now you're selling your special ink Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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