Bath Queen Square

[bill-lobb]

11 hours ago, queensquare said:

Back to the Nigel Hunt 483s which are proving a joy to build.

The chassis went together beautifully. Nigel uses the same method Mike Raithby pioneered on his 4F kit, namely etched fold up spacers soldered to double sided PCB pads. Its more time consuming the the normal milled PCB spacers but gives a very rigid result which I think is probably easier to keep square and free of twist. It has the added advantage that it leaves more space between the frames, particularly useful on a 4-4-0 where I will be able to get a pretty hefty lump of lead in the firebox/ashpan area - low down between the drivers where it will do most good. These little 4-4-0s will be expected to take six brass coaches up a curving 1in70!

I fitted my preferred style of bogie pivot which is a bit of 1.6mm tube tapped 12BA. This will have a spring around it bearing down lightly on the bogie stretcher. The only mod I had to do was carefully open out the slot in the stretcher to take the tube. The tube projects about 5mm below the spacer and is held in place, over length, with one of those really useful mini clothes pegs whilst being soldered in.

 

 

I added a couple of additional details to the frames, namely sand boxes which are just lumps of brass bar with a hole in the bottom to take the sand pipe and the cylinders for the bogie brakes which these locos were fitted with up to the early 1930s. I will have a rummage in my stash of left over bits from wagon kits to see if there is anything that could be used to represent the brakes themselves which could be glued in after painting but, if I'm honest I probably wont bother - the brake cylinder being enough to suggest their presence.

 

The various chassis bits were then given a good scrub and mounted on cocktail sticks ready for painting - etched primer followed by matt black. The wheels had 'Maskol' applied to the tyres and were mounted in their own bit of holey balsa - these will be red.

 

 

 

 

Jerry

 

I can't help thinking of the book I have just read about Vlad the Impaler. 

 

Bill

[queensquare]

14 hours ago, bill-lobb said:

 

I can't help thinking of the book I have just read about Vlad the Impaler. 

 

Bill

 

Id be very keen to see and hear your experiences of building David's Midland kits Bill. Its a lonely place being the only one to stick their head above the parapet and share their experiences only to be sniped at.

 

Jerry

[queensquare]

On 29/01/2022 at 21:01, Compound2632 said:

It's up to your conscience...

 

You're a tease Stephen....... the wheels are now black! 

 

Jerry

 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by queensquare
To add picture

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, queensquare said:

You're a tease Stephen....... the wheels are now black! 

 

The preserved Midland Compound No. 1000 and 115 Class single No. 673 (pre-1907 No. 118) are both presented in this livery, as is (to throw in a curve ball) NCC Class U2 No. 74 at Cultra - this is, of course, identical to the standard LMS application of the crimson lake livery. The wrong 'un among preserved Midland engines is 156 Class No. 158A - presented in pre-1905 livery (though with a Deeley smokebox and chimney) but with black instead of red wheels. 

 

I half wondered if you had been misled by S&DJR practice, but Midland Style p. 98 states "With the advent of Deeley, black wheels with the inner edges of the tyres lined yellow duly replaced the blue wheels of the Johnson era". Inside frames presumably went from blue to black at the same time, just as on Midland engines they went from red to black.

[queensquare]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The preserved Midland Compound No. 1000 and 115 Class single No. 673 (pre-1907 No. 118) are both presented in this livery, as is (to throw in a curve ball) NCC Class U2 No. 74 at Cultra - this is, of course, identical to the standard LMS application of the crimson lake livery. The wrong 'un among preserved Midland engines is 156 Class No. 158A - presented in pre-1905 livery (though with a Deeley smokebox and chimney) but with black instead of red wheels. 

 

I half wondered if you had been misled by S&DJR practice, but Midland Style p. 98 states "With the advent of Deeley, black wheels with the inner edges of the tyres lined yellow duly replaced the blue wheels of the Johnson era". Inside frames presumably went from blue to black at the same time, just as on Midland engines they went from red to black.

 

I wasn’t mislead Stephen, just lazy - I had guessed! That’ll learn me! :-)

 

Jerry

[queensquare]

During yesterday’s ZAG meeting I wired a chip into the M and gave her a test run live on Zoom - brave or foolish, I'm not sure which! Thankfully she ran very well so she is now sat on Bath shed awaiting weathering along with some of my other Midland 0-6-0s.

 

Jerry

 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by queensquare

[Winchat]

11 hours ago, queensquare said:

 

Id be very keen to see and hear your experiences of building David's Midland kits Bill. Its a lonely place being the only one to stick their head above the parapet and share their experiences only to be sniped at.

 

Jerry

 

And such a beautiful head...

[-missy-]

14 hours ago, queensquare said:

During yesterday’s ZAG meeting I wired a chip into the M and gave her a test run live on Zoom - brave or foolish, I'm not sure which! Thankfully she ran very well so she is now sat on Bath shed awaiting weathering along with some of my other Midland 0-6-0s.

 

Jerry

 

 

Im really impressed on how the midland achieved such a rectilinear polygon out of their coal stocks.

 

M.

[queensquare]

27 minutes ago, -missy- said:

 

Im really impressed on how the midland achieved such a rectilinear polygon out of their coal stocks.

 

M.

 

Hi Julia,

neatly stacked coal was a feature of many loco shed yards, particularly in the early 1920s, due in large part to the fear of industrial action by the miners. Companies also tended to buy coal stocks through the summer months when it was cheaper and stack it on almost any piece of spare ground available,  the stacks themselves were incredibly neat, almost like dry stone walls. There was a discussion with pictures on this thread;

 

Jerry

 

 

[Izzy]

15 hours ago, queensquare said:

During yesterday’s ZAG meeting I wired a chip into the M and gave her a test run live on Zoom - brave or foolish, I'm not sure which! Thankfully she ran very well so she is now sat on Bath shed awaiting weathering along with some of my other Midland 0-6-0s.

 

Jerry

 

That’s a nice progression of small boiler MR 0-6-0’s. The Kirtley OF, Johnson, and belpaire/Deeley cab. Must be pleased with that.

 

Bob

[queensquare]

2 hours ago, Izzy said:

That’s a nice progression of small boiler MR 0-6-0’s. The Kirtley OF, Johnson, and belpaire/Deeley cab. Must be pleased with that.

 

Bob

 

Thanks Bob, there’s also a 3F and several 4Fs. What I need to do is get some more of the red engines finished and, more importantly, painted for a more balanced scene.

 

 

That said, with Missenden spring weekend only a month away I need to put the locos on the back burner soon and do some structures so that I have some part built as well as finished examples for the new course.

 

jerry 

[queensquare]

Last job this evening on the 483s before I put them away for a few weeks was to wheel them up. All went well with no problems. As usual I did the quartering by eye, I got lucky with the first which needed no adjustment at all to roll freely with no binding, the second needed to be tweaked to get it just so but didn’t take long. Particularly pleasing  was that they rolled through the rather ropey 1:6 point on my work board which means there shouldn’t be any problems on my 2’ minimum radius curves.

 

 

The other job I got done this evening was to dust the M with some weathering powders to soften the all over black. I’m rather pleased with this pair, motive power for the local freights on the Midland is now covered.

 

 

Jerry

I

Edited July 4, 2022 by queensquare

[Sithlord75]

Can hear the spotters now "not 3460 AGAIN!!!!"

[65179]

Spotters? Gentleman enthusiasts in those days, surely?

[Nig H]

8 hours ago, queensquare said:

Last job this evening on the 483s before I put them away for a few weeks was to wheel them up. All went well with no problems. As usual I did the quartering by eye, I got lucky with the first which needed no adjustment at all to roll freely with no binding, the second needed to be tweaked to get it just so but didn’t take long. Particularly pleasing  was that they rolled through the rather ropey 1:6 point on my work board which means there shouldn’t be any problems on my 2’ minimum radius curves.

 

 

The other job I got done this evening was to dust the M with some weathering powders to soften the all over black. I’m rather pleased with this pair, motive power for the local freights on the Midland is now covered.

 

 

Jerry

I

Nice work Jerry. Glad the 483s run OK. When you get back to them you may need to check out the safety valves for them. Reading the Wild Swan book last night, I think you might need Ramsbottom style ones.

 

Nigel Hunt

[Compound2632]

20 minutes ago, Nig H said:

Nice work Jerry. Glad the 483s run OK. When you get back to them you may need to check out the safety valves for them. Reading the Wild Swan book last night, I think you might need Ramsbottom style ones.

 

For 1920s, yes. I think so. Here's 1936:

 

 

[Embedded link to Warwickshire Railways image mrsalt98.]

 

For 1920s, don't forget the splash plates. Kings Norton 30 July 1921:

 

 

[Embedded link to Warwickshire Railways image mrknpreg241.]

 

Note the arc-roof 12-wheeler at the front of the train - a lavatory brake composite, D522 of 1896.

[queensquare]

On 03/02/2022 at 01:08, Sithlord75 said:

Can hear the spotters now "not 3460 AGAIN!!!!"

 

Oddly 3460 would be the 'cop' being a Gloucester engine, the Deeley cabbed  2F 2934 and the Kirtley are Bath engines.

On 03/02/2022 at 08:34, Nig H said:

Nice work Jerry. Glad the 483s run OK. When you get back to them you may need to check out the safety valves for them. Reading the Wild Swan book last night, I think you might need Ramsbottom style ones.

 

Nigel Hunt

 

Thanks Nigel, a super kit, I'm really enjoying the build. There are a number of things to do to backdate the pair to 1920s condition;

Modify the tender to original condition with full length coal rails.

Ramsbottom safety valves.

Fill the excess washout plugs 

Splash plates on front buffer beam

Taller, Midland boiler fittings

 

On 03/02/2022 at 09:01, Compound2632 said:

 

For 1920s, yes. I think so. Here's 1936:

 

 

[Embedded link to Warwickshire Railways image mrsalt98.]

 

For 1920s, don't forget the splash plates. Kings Norton 30 July 1921:

 

 

[Embedded link to Warwickshire Railways image mrknpreg241.]

 

Note the arc-roof 12-wheeler at the front of the train - a lavatory brake composite, D522 of 1896.

 

 

 

 

Indeed Stephen. The Warwickshire Railways website is wonderful, I have left and right hand side views of the pair I am building - Saltley's405 and Bristol's 518. Note 405 is an early example of the modified tender with high coal plate and cut back rails as supplied in the kit.

 

Jerry

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by queensquare

[Compound2632]

I'm sure the pair of S&DJR vans behind 518 in the RHS view will not have escaped your attention - 6 wheel brake and 4 wheel milk - or is it luggage - or is it even LSWR?

[queensquare]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I'm sure the pair of S&DJR vans behind 518 in the RHS view will not have escaped your attention - 6 wheel brake and 4 wheel milk - or is it luggage - or is it even LSWR?

 

Indeed not, it's one of the reasons I chose 518,  I like to think it's a train from Bath although the front two vehicles could just as easily have been added at Bristol or Mangotsfield.

Not sure what the van behind them is - horsebox? Behind this NPCS head I count eleven vehicles - not bad for a type two locomotive!

 

Jerry

[Compound2632]

6 hours ago, queensquare said:

Indeed not, it's one of the reasons I chose 518,  I like to think it's a train from Bath although the front two vehicles could just as easily have been added at Bristol or Mangotsfield.

Not sure what the van behind them is - horsebox? Behind this NPCS head I count eleven vehicles - not bad for a type two locomotive!

 

Yes, but uncertain if Midland or S&DJR. Then:

• 48 ft lavatory composite brake D508 - door toplights replaced by ventilators
• 54 ft 8-compartment third D485
• 48 ft lavatory composite D508 - door toplights replaced by ventilators
• 48 ft lavatory composite D509
• 31 ft brake D350

after that I give up.

 

The train behind No. 405 is curious too. The leading vehicle is, I think, a 54 ft vestibule third class excursion carriage, D595, seven built to lot 733 in 1910. Then come some elderly arc-roof carriages, a 43 ft 7-compartment third, D490, and a couple of 31 ft 5-compartment thirds, D493. Then half-a-dozen square-light clerestory carriages, all, I think, 48 ft lavatory types, and at the rear what might possibly be another of the vestibuled excursion carriages. A Bournemouth excursion?

 

The second photo of No. 518 shows a proper corridor express, mostly 54 ft corridor clerestories - the leading brake composite a through carriage to somewhere - it might even be the Southampton through carriage, via the M&SWJR. The two carriages at the rear of the train might be dining cars - a Bain-era non-kitchen diner at the very rear with a Clayton clerestory kitchen-diner ahead of it, but I'm not entirely convinced.

[queensquare]

On 03/02/2022 at 21:54, Compound2632 said:

 

Yes, but uncertain if Midland or S&DJR. Then:

• 48 ft lavatory composite brake D508 - door toplights replaced by ventilators
• 54 ft 8-compartment third D485
• 48 ft lavatory composite D508 - door toplights replaced by ventilators
• 48 ft lavatory composite D509
• 31 ft brake D350

after that I give up.

 

The train behind No. 405 is curious too. The leading vehicle is, I think, a 54 ft vestibule third class excursion carriage, D595, seven built to lot 733 in 1910. Then come some elderly arc-roof carriages, a 43 ft 7-compartment third, D490, and a couple of 31 ft 5-compartment thirds, D493. Then half-a-dozen square-light clerestory carriages, all, I think, 48 ft lavatory types, and at the rear what might possibly be another of the vestibuled excursion carriages. A Bournemouth excursion?

 

The second photo of No. 518 shows a proper corridor express, mostly 54 ft corridor clerestories - the leading brake composite a through carriage to somewhere - it might even be the Southampton through carriage, via the M&SWJR. The two carriages at the rear of the train might be dining cars - a Bain-era non-kitchen diner at the very rear with a Clayton clerestory kitchen-diner ahead of it, but I'm not entirely convinced.

 

Thats a really useful post, thanks Stephen.

 

Jerry

[queensquare]

I was taking a few snaps this morning so, whilst I had the camera out I thought I would line up all the  Midland 0-6-0s on shed. There are a couple more 4Fs unfinished and a half cab 0-6-0T which is awaiting painting but otherwise that will probably do for now. Need to get some of the red ones finished and painted!

 

 

I also ran the Kirtley and M on empties to Radstock. The pairing is more reminiscent of the Midland mainline than the S&D but, even when the layout is finished (!!) I wont have a descent stretch of Midland to pose them on so I will just have to invoke Rule 1 - both were regulars at Bath so its not too far fetched!

 

Jerry

Edited April 3, 2022 by queensquare

[Rowsley17D]

Very nice, Jerry. I'm just on with building a 4mm W/M Kirtley myself.

[Caley Jim]

That M looks as though it's been worked pretty hard at some point, judging by the smokebox!

 

Jim

[queensquare]

15 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

That M looks as though it's been worked pretty hard at some point, judging by the smokebox!

 

Jim

 

Thanks Jim. Study of period pictures suggests that burnt and blistered paintwork, particularly around the smokebox, was fairly common. These  little locos  were underpowered by the 1920s and must have been thrashed at times,

 

Jerry