DCC control of coach lighting

[billtee]

I've just purchased a Bachmann Mk 1 CK and a Bachmann Mk 1 BCK and want to fit LED lighting withon them. But how will I be able to turn on/off the coach lights? My layout is purely DCC.

 

I want each coach to have individual control, as the coaches are not stored in a fixed rake (no sidings longer than one coach length!).

 

There are several different manufacturers of lighting for coaches, but which is best? I don't want brilliantly lit coaches, just the 'usual' dimly lit variety, but my main concern is DCC control.

 

Thank you for any suggestions/help.

Bill

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

Start here http://www.expressmodels.co.uk/acatalog/4mm_Coach_Lighting.html

 

You will need to engineer pick ups on every coach and a single function decoder in each coach.

 

You might try DCCConcepts for the pick ups as I think they developed a system using a coil spring wrapped on the ale. You might need to reverse some wheelsets as the axles are all live to one side or the other and you need to control that.

 

The decoder is wired to the pick ups and the output functions to the lighting, blue wire common +ve

[melmerby]

Each coach would need it's own function decoder, picking up curr

I've just purchased a Bachmann Mk 1 CK and a Bachmann Mk 1 BCK and want to fit LED lighting withon them. But how will I be able to turn on/off the coach lights? My layout is purely DCC.

 

I want each coach to have individual control, as the coaches are not stored in a fixed rake (no sidings longer than one coach length!).

 

There are several different manufacturers of lighting for coaches, but which is best? I don't want brilliantly lit coaches, just the 'usual' dimly lit variety, but my main concern is DCC control.

 

Thank you for any suggestions/help.

Bill

Each coach would need it's own function decoder, picking up current from the rails. They are then turned on and off from the controller. Once they in a rake you could set up a consist so that they could all be switched on/off at the same time.

The lamp brightness should be adjustable on the function controller, if not a series resistor should dim them down a bit.

I have some Hornby Pullmans with on board lighting which I intend to operate with function controllers in the above manner.

 

Keith

[Marty Mc]

Hi

 

I use DCC Concepts Flicker free 2 for all my lighting along with TCS/ DCC Concepts Function only decoders. DCC Concepts will be releasing a new product soon again for coach lighting which is right up your alley.

 

Just about everyone of my coaches has a 4 function decoder for lighting. DCC Concepts FF2 also has pick ups and all the bits you need plus different LEDs to suit your era.

 

To give you an idea here are some photos and videos of full DCC Control. This one has 4 functions controlling main cabin lghts, bar or down lights, red tail light and kitchen lighs

 

 

 

As you can see in this shot the Pullman table lamps are off.

 

 

 

 

Maunsell coaches with dcc control.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYZ0zELwcho

 

Farish Stanier with DCC control.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Qh01LkJaU

 

Decoders are so cheap these days why not????

 

Hope that helps.

 

Martin

[beeman]

Suggest you use the search facilities to peruse articles on coach lighting on the various forums, along with a visit to your bank manager. Yes one can make each coach switchable from your controller, then you will need a decoder/pickups to each coach plus coach lighting if you buy as kits..Pickups will create some braking effect whatever method of pickup you use. as they ALL rely on touch contact. If you search for some of my advice you will see I adopted fitting 5 thou brass wiper pickups to ALL 8 wheels, and after trying a number of differing methods have stuck with that method, also recently connecting thro from the brake to another 4 coaches. This method reduces the overall drag against each coach having pickups, each not permanently connected to the next, still allowing parting if needed. I have just completed my 10th set, so must be satisfied. Some using my motor stuffed decoders where the Auxiliary and lighting outputs still ok. These fitted in the brake to enable a reed relay switching all 5. The stuffed decoders set to same address as loco, So allowing for change if desired. obviously may need address changeing to changed loco. some sets not switched at all . a couple with a small slide switch in the brake corridor connection.To do as you desire will be an expensive excercise. I have changed my approach to lighting since my first foray, experience being generated, I get no flicker if the pickups are set correct, obviously the more pressure the more braking. So do not need any flicker free kits. Originally I used individual leds but since opted for the led strips, best value on ebay at around £10.00 for a 5 m.strip with 60 /m, 3 leds per section on the strip.so 12/15 leds /coach warm white. These can be cut in multiples of three each with their own resistor for 12v. They are too bright and around +/-500/600 ohms still needs to be in series with each strip. I have also used 'Quality Street' wrappers to enhance the colour further. Some of the old Triang Thompson teaks I fitted with the old Kitmaster paper printable interiors free on the net., but needed some aluminium foil sticky tape in the plastic roof interiors due to them being translucent, to stop light emanating thro, and of course metal wheels.. This making the brake, the power unit, and reducing the need/cost for metal wheels on the others. This will apply to most of the older models of Mainline/ Hornby having plastic/ metal tyred wheels Fitting coach lighting needs one to be capable of soldering etc, if you are capable of fitting decoders and associated kits then to DIY along with pickups should not present probs. for you. There are previous posts/pics showing how I did it. Good Luck..Beeman

Edited March 3, 2012 by beeman

[mikes rail]

• Playing around with a spare decoder I fitted a LED light strip to a Dapol coach kit to see how it would work, with a view to fitting out better stock at a latter date. I made up contacts with copper clad strip and phosphor bronze strip, for the LED I used the following from Ebay
  
• http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-WHITE-SMD-FLEXI-STRIP-150mm-LONG-DC-DCC-NEW-/120864418248?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item1c2414a9c8
  
• Project worked well I did add a thin coat of glue and glaze around the edge of the LED strip to enforce its sticking down and placed the decoder in the toilet compartment.
  

[beeman]

Am I missing something, Re MartyMc post. If a decoder is fitted to each coach then cost for each will be around £12.00 minimum for a decoder, if the flickerfree kit is added than that is around £25 .00 total plus postage, 5 coaches will cost nearing £100.00. If I had to pay out that amount I would forget it. Also Re mikes rail, I got 33 lengths =5mtrs for £9.99,and looks just the same as his pic. Its just gone up in price to £10.29 inc del. At mikes rail price that would be £59.40 for 33 x 180mm lengths.and as I said the strip I bought had 60 leds /m, some of the strips out there do not have as many leds. Reckon the seller to mikes rail bought from the same supplier as me, and making a good profit. Time for some homework by some methinks. Beeman

Edited March 3, 2012 by beeman

[billtee]

Having had a look at the DCC Concepts Flicker-free coach lighting, and these kits looks to be ideal for me. The 'fly in the ointment' that immediately springs to mind is the power pick-up from the rails - Bachmann axles are completely isolated from the wheels! I could get some VERY fine wire which could lightly rub on the back of the wheels close to the axles, so that's not a complete block to getting power to the bogies (though how I'd fasten the wires on the smooth lower surface of the bogies and still keep everything out of sight is a bit tricky!), but then there's the next problem: getting the power from the bogies into the coach. There's a beautifully fine cam-thingy directly above the bogies which keeps the coaches closely coupled when on straight track, but extends the couplings when going around curves (which is absolutely brilliant!). I've taken off a bogie to have a close look at where I could feed the power leads (+ and -, of course) up, but as I see it, any wires, no matter how fine, would snag the close-coupling mechanism. I'm having a headache just thinking about doing these conversions at the moment!

Has anyone actually lit up a Bachmann coach?

I have two Bachmann coaches, a Mk 1 BCK and a Mk 1 CK, both to be hauled behind a green BR (split headcodes, with small yellow panels) Peak diesel which is fitted with a factory-installed sound chip. My 'storyline' is that this small (short) train is a 'Spotter Special' bringing enthusiasts to my TMD for the day!

I have a couple of Bachmann 16-pin 3-function decoders I could possibly use if I can get some 16-pin sockets and if someone can tell me what socket pins I would have to solder the + and - to, and what pins would give me an on-off output. I could then give the chips a dedicated 'loco' address (probably 51 and 52, as I will never have that many locomotives!).I'm not an electronics expert, but I can solder fine wires fairly neatly - my signals have wires so fine I can hardly see them, so I've soldered thicker wires (16/0.2 which is all I've got!) to the ends of them so that I can see what I'm doing! So far, everything seems to be working OK so I must be doing something right.

If anyone can help me re the coach lighting I would be very, very grateful!

All the best,

Bill

[billtee]

Marty Mc, I'm very, very impressed with your coach lighting, that's for sure! And all your passengers (where did you get them?)

 

I would like to have a working tail light on the BCK if possible, but there are a few problems which I have spotted, even if I go with DCC concepts flicker-free lighting kits. I've posted a fuller explanation of the problems in the Modelling Questions section.

 

Anyway, dear friend, thank you for posting the photos and videos - as I said at the beginning, I'm VERY impressed indeed!

Thank you,

Bill

[Mod5]

Bill I have merged the two threads because as you may have seen already it is difficult to keep track of two with different and repeated replies.

[Suzie]

There are various different function decoders available. If you are using one per coach you might like to consider the ones with more functions if you want to be able to control the lights in individual compartments. Zimo do the MX685 8-function decoder for example.

[Nigelcliffe]

Cheapest decoder option is probably Paul Harman's DIY design; it was originally done for coach lighting to reduce the cost of controlling the lights in a rake of coaches. Depending how its built, it can have up to eight function outputs per decoder.

But, it does mean assembling a circuit on vero-board. Around £3.00 per decoder if you have a PIC programmer to load the code into PICs bought from Rapid or Farnell.

 

Nigel

[Neal Ball]

Hi Bill,

I currently use the DCC Concepts flickr free, which I purchase from Bromsgrove Models. To date, I have three coaches lit, (1 x Bachmann Collett & 2 x Hornby Collett). they all use the springs to collect current from the rails.

 

They are arranged so you have one spring on each axle of a bogie, one axle collecting left, the other right. (DCC Concepts suggest that one bogie collects left, the other bogie right). I then apply to opposing wheels / axle a small amount of electrical conductivity paint which I got from Ebay. (I also use this method to get extra pick-ups on loco tenders!)

 

However, I am not using decoders in my rakes, preferring them to be on constant. I probably would not recommend a propriety decoder due to the cost of converting a whole rake, let alone all of my stock! - But I have found on the web, an article about making your own, basic lighting decoder. The parts would come from maplins and cost less than £3. Or you can buy it as part of a DIY kit, in which case the chip is already programmed, you just need to solder it all together.

 

Good luck!

Edited March 4, 2012 by Neal Ball

[billtee]

Many thanks to all who have replied to my questions (which have been merged from two different forums to keep everything simple!).

I am very much favouring a method sold by DCC Supplies, because (a) the shop is only about 35 miles from where I live so I can go there and TALK to the very knowledgeable lass who works the shop, and ( B) they also sell DCC Concepts stuff. I very much like the Flicker-Free lighting kits, and I'd LIKE to add a red tail light, but I'm not absolutely sure I can add one yet. I'll have to ask (one of the benefits of actually talking to a knowledgeable sales assistant!). DCC Supplies also sell fine pick-up wipers which only have to be Araldited to the bottoms of the bogies - brilliant! (PS: I'm just a very satisfied customer of DCC Supplies!)

Anyway, thanks to those who mentioned conductive paint - I had never heard of that before, and it would overcome the problem of getting power to the axles. Perhaps they sell that at DCC Supplies!

I'm still a bit mystified as to the method of getting the power from the bogies into the coach without upsetting the close-coupling cam arrangement, as I can't go 'through' the bogie pivot - it is a very short screw, and there is a little 'stop' moulding right next to it to restrict the swinging of the bogie, so I couldn't just run a wire up close to the screw! Perhaps I could use the screw as a current conductor if I am able to see the other end (inside the coach, which I haven't yet pulled apart). This particular problem is causing me a bit of a headache (again!) - I can see that there is an 'open' section of floor right above the bogies to let the close-coupling mechanism move, but if I threaded a wire up through there, it would restrict the bogie swing and possibly restrict the close-coupling as well. Oh dear!

All the best,

Bill

Edited March 4, 2012 by billtee

[beeman]

I hope those contemplating flick free lighting appreciate they have to remove one of wheels on each coach axle and re position correctly to fit the pickup springs,also this method connects only 4 wheels with the track. Still maintain 8 is better, and the likely reason for the additional units, and why bother assembling lighting strips when available in ready made up sticky back strips one can cut to desired length as 'cheap as chips', ' You can take a horse to water' etc., c'est la vie Beeman.

Edited March 4, 2012 by beeman

[Softvark]

I also don't use a decoder for coach lighting. In my era of modelling, the late 70s, lighting was quite dim so I set the light output from the LEDs to be low. it is not noticeable that they are on in daylight but look realistic when dark.

 

The other advantage is that it's easy to create your own flicker free circuit - simply take the voltage from the pickups through a bridge rectifier to a capacitor placed before the series resistor to supply the LEDs.

 

Simple and cheap.

 

Julian

[Marty Mc]

Hi

 

Warning Photo intensive ( photos explains far better)

 

Thanks glad you liked them.

 

OK figures are Pressier, most I hand painted but you can also buy pre painted ones. Most shops stock them, last time I purchased them I got a bulk order around 400 Euro from Minitur Wunderland. Great place to visit by the way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can add as much or as little detail as you want.

 

I have a couple of full sets of the Brighton Belle waiting at home for me and I am building 1 set for a guy in France. He wants everything working sound lights plus DCC Concepts new Pullman lamps added in every coach. They look far better than Hornbys plus the have a table setting ready for you to paint if you wish. I will get some photos of that up when I have time. Just another detail you can add if you wish.

 

Tail lights. DCC Concepts manufacturer working 4mm LMS and LNER lights which are pre wired and have 3 or 4 different resistor values. Again available from most shops.

 

 

 

 

Susie mentioned the Zimo 8 function decoder highly highly recommended. I love them you can do so many things with them. Here is one in a BOB tender using 8 functions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If your stuck for space you can use DCC Concepts pre wired nano lights. They are tiny and less than 0.8mm long. Here they are in a Dapol coach.

 

 

Make sure you get the right light for your era, you can see the difference between modern and post 70's

 

 

Silver conductive paint good for about 100-120mA. That sorts out the problem of double insulation on the wheels.

 

 

Coach lighting

 

It can make a real difference with a lick of paint. These are the Jubilee coaches and I think the mould is 30+ years old. Some lights and paint change all that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Decoders so many on the market today. If you want full control thats the only way to go. If your game you can also use 1 function for auto coupling. I know DCC Concepts will soon release a new function only decoder and a new Digital flicker free 3.

 

Hope that helps and answers most of your questions and dont let your imagination limit you.

 

.

 

Beeman Biltee wants digital control so it does require a decoder. I respect what you suggest and they are great cheap options. However I am time poor so I will buy products which you consider expensive to save me 1 hour here and there. I would love to build my own function decoders but it just is not an option for me.

 

Have fun.

 

Martin

[billtee]

Blimey, those photographs of coaches, etc with interior lights are just amazing! I'm seriously impressed!

Thank you, everyone, for your help in this matter. I think I will be able to make a reasonable job of lighting my whole TWO coaches! I probably won't purchase any more because my layout is primarily an engine shed (yes, I know - yawn!), but it displays my collection of diesel locomotives very nicely, and now that I've made a complete circuit, albeit the rear of the layout is not scenic in any way (think of it as a fiddle yard where you drive in, and drive out!), I can watch my locomotives running past the TMD all day if I want. I've got to say that it is VERY relaxing.

Now I'd better get that ballasting done - a job I've been putting off for ages because I don't want to 'finalise' anything until I'm VERY certain that everything works perfectly, all the time, and under all conditions. Think of my layout as being in 'beta' stage of development!

All the very best to you all,

Bill

[Neal Ball]

Hi

 

Warning Photo intensive ( photos explains far better)

 

Thanks glad you liked them.

 

OK figures are Pressier, most I hand painted but you can also buy pre painted ones. Most shops stock them, last time I purchased them I got a bulk order around 400 Euro from Minitur Wunderland. Great place to visit by the way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

......

 

Have fun.

 

Martin

 

The pictures of the waiters and kitchen staff are particularly good. I think I need some of those in the Centenary project! - Are they also Preiser?

 

Someone else also commented about conductive paint and taking wheels apart. As long as you reset the back to back, it should not be a problem.

[Poe]

Hi

 

I use DCC Concepts Flicker free 2 for all my lighting along with TCS/ DCC Concepts Function only decoders. DCC Concepts will be releasing a new product soon again for coach lighting which is right up your alley.

 

Just about everyone of my coaches has a 4 function decoder for lighting. DCC Concepts FF2 also has pick ups and all the bits you need plus different LEDs to suit your era.

 

To give you an idea here are some photos and videos of full DCC Control. This one has 4 functions controlling main cabin lghts, bar or down lights, red tail light and kitchen lighs

 

 

 

As you can see in this shot the Pullman table lamps are off.

 

 

 

 

Maunsell coaches with dcc control.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYZ0zELwcho

 

Farish Stanier with DCC control.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Qh01LkJaU

 

Decoders are so cheap these days why not????

 

Hope that helps.

 

Martin

 

Thats amazing!

[@Jc]

I realise 

 

I also don't use a decoder for coach lighting. In my era of modelling, the late 70s, lighting was quite dim so I set the light output from the LEDs to be low. it is not noticeable that they are on in daylight but look realistic when dark.

The other advantage is that it's easy to create your own flicker free circuit - simply take the voltage from the pickups through a bridge rectifier to a capacitor placed before the series resistor to supply the LEDs.

Simple and cheap.

Julian

I am hoping to be able to run coach lights in a similar manner to this using just the power from the dcc track. I was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction of suitable capacitors and bridge rectifiers for this type of project as I am not sure what specifications I am looking for. I am hoping to use self adhesive led strip for the actual coach lights and have already got the coach pickups sorted. Thanks in advance for any help and guidance offered.  

[Suzie]

You are unlikely to find a suitable bridge rectifier, but instead will need to use four diodes like UF4001 to make a bridge. The capacitor should ideally be rated at 35V but size will depend on the lighting load and how good your pickups are.

[Tangoman69]

I realise 

 

I am hoping to be able to run coach lights in a similar manner to this using just the power from the dcc track. I was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction of suitable capacitors and bridge rectifiers for this type of project as I am not sure what specifications I am looking for. I am hoping to use self adhesive led strip for the actual coach lights and have already got the coach pickups sorted. Thanks in advance for any help and guidance offered.  

 

Follow this link, it describes everything you need to make lighting for your coaches. I have just bought all the components (resistors, capacitors, LED's, strip board, Bridge rectifiers and flux) to complete 8 Hornby Mk3's for £50, there is another £20 for the axle pickups.

 

 

Regards,

 

Karl

[Suzie]

The round bridge rectifier shown in that picture is unlikely to be suitable for DCC. It will most likely get hot and if you have more than a few coaches it will overload your command station resulting in difficulty powering up your command station and giving unreliable running with some decoders. You must use four fast diodes for DCC like UF4001 or similar. They are not expensive - probably cheaper than the bridge rectifier shown.

[melmerby]

Adding to what Suzie has said:

 

On AC when there is a polarity reversal there is a slight time delay before the diodes become non-conducting.

This can mean the "off diode" (reverse biased) is still conducting for a short period at the same time as the "on diode" (forward biased).

This produces a momentary short circuit.

 

UF (ultra fast) diodes do not exhibit this problem to the same degree and are preferrable on anything above mains frequency.

 

Keith

 

EDIT (added more info & clarity!)

 

IMHO There are better ways to do it than shown in the video.

To illuminate items on my layout I am using surface mount LEDs, either in flexible strips ready wired, or seperately on plastic strip

N.B. most Hornby coach wheel axles have one conducting and one insulated wheel (AFAIK Bachmann are both insulated)

A piece of phosphor bronze wire on a small piece of PCB  is all you need to use as a pick up. You can then pick up on both wheels - I have done this to pick up on all wheels of a Lima DRC.

Edited February 9, 2014 by melmerby