Support vehicle solution for N Gauge steam

[NZmodeller]

Hi Everyone,

 

Given that in many cases a DCC sound installation in an N gauge steam locomotive can be too theoretical to be practical the alternative would appear to be a support vehicle, perhaps a brake coach with the decoder and speaker in the guard's compartment.

 

My concerns with this solution are

 

1 it may be apparent that the sound is coming from the wrong place

2 syncronising with the locomotive's actual movement may be difficult or even impossible.

 

No doubt someone has done this and would be in a position to report on their experiences, if this is the case I would welcome any comments.

 

Peter

[Nigelcliffe]

Sound position... less of an issue than you might think provided the sound is fairly near the loco. The human brain will tend to associate sounds which are from approximately the right place with an object which should make the noises. Obviously if you watch/listen from very close the sound will appear to be from the wrong place.

 

Sync... this is more of an issue. Clearly if the decoder were connected to the loco, then its OK. Its no different to decoder/speaker in tender of a steam loco. But, trying to get movement to match sounds without feedback from the motor is much more difficult. It can be done, its probably easier with diesels if the sound project has "manual notching". Its much harder with steam due to difficulty of synchronising wheel movement to sounds.

 

It might be no harder to put the sound "under the layout". You benefit from having speakers and amplifiers of any sizes rather than being limited by the speaker size. There is software which can move sounds around under layouts using surround-sound speakers (similar to a home cinema setup). Four options which spring to mind, but there will be others;

• a sound add-on to Traincontroller software (commercial model rail control package),
  
• a hardware box (but expensive, and do read carefully the requirements on decoders, types of sounds offered, and train detection) from SoundTraxx called "SurroundTraxx",
  
• some part-finished capabilities within JMRI (which is free!),
  
• use an audio player (iPod, etc) and a stereo/surround audio mixer to move the sounds around - the layout "Mostyn" uses this approach to great effect.
  

- Nigel

[NZmodeller]

Thanks Nigel,

 

I agree, diesels are easier and probably more satisfying in operation. I was temporarily seduced by the idea of a simple installation in a Gresley brake 3rd. We're on the same page with sound faders though, I think that will be my solution for an 04 that lives entirely in a small goods yard.

 

Thanks for the ideas, I will look at them all. I've only just begun with sound and still at the stage where I'm not sure how far I want to go with it. The pace of change in this scale that I would not have considered sound a couple of years ago but now it's much more viable and compelling. It's safe to assume that possibilities will continue to expand too. It might be better to concentrate on tried and tested solutions with diesels for the moment, Perhaps more possibilities will emerge in the future that will make steam sound more viable and with a credible effect.

 

Peter

[Marty Mc]

Hi

 

As posted Diesels are far easier. I have converted about 25-30 farish/Dapol steam locos to DCC sound. The Aus US and Euro locos are far easier plus I find they appreciate and understand the work that actually goes into the conversation.

 

Graham Farish B1 with DCC sound and lights.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0RbyoGNOVM

 

Graham farish A4 with DCC sound duel smoke generators and lights.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuATRsce0mo

 

Dapol class 66 with 8 fully independant lights.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br5s7PYLdok

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[jagman]

Hi Martin

Thanks for the video clips. What can I say but Brilliant. I would love to know how you fitted the decoder, lights and smoke genorator. Do you have pictures of your

installation? I have a Class 37 with DCC 6 pin and want to fit the Digitrax SDN144 sound dcoder. Any hints/tips your aware off?

Cheers

Giles

[roundhouse]

We used the Soundtraxx Surroundtraxx system for the first itme at a show at the weekend. WHilst the majority of sounds are USA style, it does have some generci British steam (no British diesels though). We have used it so far in its basic format whereby the box is connected to speakers under the layout. Eventually we will set up block sections and as this box requires a Digitrax system to communicate with it, it uses their Transponding feature to move the sound between the speakers. Boht DCC Supplies and Sunningwell can get these units for you.

The other solutiuon we have used is as mentioned above by installing a sound decoder in and adjacent support coach. This has also worked well.

 

Ian

[Steven B]

Dapol's light-bar ready coaches are the place to start with this project - along with the current (and last?) issue of one of the modelling mags that describes fitting a sound decoder in a Mk3 for use with both Dapol and Farish HSTs.

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

[Marty Mc]

Hi Jagman

 

Yes I find removing the PCB and hard wiring the decoder is the way to go and dont forget to fully seal your speaker. Buy the best quality wire, LEDs, decoders etc. Buy cheap buy twice thats the best advice I can give.

 

The Farish class 37 has a ton of room. You can get 2 decoders into it plus 1loksound micro and 1 function only decoder plus 2 x "DCC Concepts stay alive" without losing weight or the cabs.

 

The smoke Generators can only be fitted to the older models which are die cast. I have tried with the new ones but I cannot get rid of the heat.

 

I build a storage tank and add a pre heater so I can keep the smoke oil at a fairly constant temp. The advantage of this is it hugely reduces the "spluttering effect" and you get much more smoke. Of course it is only on off as between the smoke and pre heater when both running it can pull nearly 500mA. So you need to also add a micro relay to protect the decoder.

 

 

Weight is critical in n gauge so what is removed must be replaced. I weight a loco body machine it then add what is needed. Take this photo it is the firebox wall which is made out of lead, giving me 14 grams. That can be 15-20% of some locos, plus it adds extra detail.

 

 

I have a slight advantage as I have access to some very specialised CNC equipment and let the machines run at night taking 0.5mm to 0.1mm cuts. Their is more time spent making the jigs to hold the bodies than the actual machining.

 

Class 37 with DCC Sound

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FJCllAAm88

 

 

Slow run of 37

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUcUYXrl1vk

 

 

Hope that helps.

 

Martin

[jagman]

Hi Martin

 

Thanks for the tips, they will be put to good use. I aslo enjoyed the other video clips. Surperb running from the 37s.

Did you get your decoders from DCC supplies?

 

Cheers

Giles