RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 17, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2014 If the worst comes to the worst and you end up losing a couple of foot off the length, the one advantage of that pillar will be that it will afford you the perfect access point to operate and shunt the yard. It does look like a massive pillar though; what the hell is it going to be holding up? THAT seems to be the $64000 question! Maybe the builders got a cheap, bulk-buy of roof girders made of super-dense neutron star material?! It'll all be built by this time next week so I'll know the definitive answer by then. Whatever, it bl**dy well isn't going to muck up my plans!! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted June 17, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2014 Introduce the pillar to your friend the Sthil saw.... It might help set the baseboard height if you only want to remove one block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 17, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2014 Introduce the pillar to your friend the Sthil saw.... It might help set the baseboard height if you only want to remove one block. Yes, Mick. I have a feeling they are going to become "intimately acquainted", before an untimely "break-up"!! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 You could rotate the plan somewhat and then maybe lose or drastically shorten the goods sidings... rotate.jpg or, if there are any structural engineers or builders around here to verify that it's safe, perhaps chop a couple of blocks out of the buttress to allow for the track to flow through - the top of the blockwork you remove could even support the baseboard at that point... chop.jpg Er, no, I don't think it wouldn't be safe like that! Agree utterly, that the column seems insanely large - even if you were going to sling two steel roll-a-doors (one each side) from it. I'm not a design engineer, but am a Civil Eng - I know that you could *reasonably* safely core a couple of holes through - the advantage being the circular holes would be less likely to crack, as the column should just have a downward force in it. But you can't remove the majority of the volume of the column in any one place, or the load will tend to make the column want to buckle outwards. Even the dead load - the weight of the column bricks above the cut - might compromise the while thing if you took 60-70% of the load bearing area away at the mid poiint of the column. By coring it, you keep the column footprint the same, and just increase the pressure the material would be under in that area - less area carrying the same load = more pressure, right? - and cinderblocks in compression are reasonably durable. As it's a new building, and there would be warrenties involved, be aware Jeff that if you modify it, you may well be voiding any claim for repairs should there be any other problem with the bunker. It may cost a little bit of cash, but I'd recommend getting some written advice if you do plan to core/cut; it would be a tragedy if something you did came back to haunt you a few years down the track... Cheers Scott 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Er, no, I don't think it wouldn't be safe like that! Agree utterly, that the column seems insanely large - even if you were going to sling two steel roll-a-doors (one each side) from it. I'm not a design engineer, but am a Civil Eng - I know that you could *reasonably* safely core a couple of holes through - the advantage being the circular holes would be less likely to crack, as the column should just have a downward force in it. But you can't remove the majority of the volume of the column in any one place, or the load will tend to make the column want to buckle outwards. Even the dead load - the weight of the column bricks above the cut - might compromise the while thing if you took 60-70% of the load bearing area away at the mid poiint of the column. By coring it, you keep the column footprint the same, and just increase the pressure the material would be under in that area - less area carrying the same load = more pressure, right? - and cinderblocks in compression are reasonably durable. As it's a new building, and there would be warrenties involved, be aware Jeff that if you modify it, you may well be voiding any claim for repairs should there be any other problem with the bunker. It may cost a little bit of cash, but I'd recommend getting some written advice if you do plan to core/cut; it would be a tragedy if something you did came back to haunt you a few years down the track... Cheers Scott See this is why I'm a graphic designer and they don't let me loose with building materials! Sound advice Scott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Don't mind me - I'm a Civil Engineer, and Jeff won't let me near photoshop anymore!!!! Something about a bird named Julia and a mankini wearing fireman.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 that's another thing - I bet we've got enough trades between the lot of us to do just about anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 17, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2014 Don't mind me - I'm a Civil Engineer, and Jeff won't let me near photoshop anymore!!!! Something about a bird named Julia and a mankini wearing fireman.... Very sensible advice in that post, Scott. I'm looking forward to examining that pillar as I couldn't get near it last week because of all the construction paraphernalia nearby. As for Photoshop. Well, Mankini Man was hilarious, Julia gorgeous and that viaduct/spoof Model Rail picture was inspired! In recent TV coverage of the Giro d'Italia cycling event there was a man in a green mankini running alongside the cyclists, 2000m up a mountain road. He (well, parts of him) must have been bloomin' freezing! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2014 Here's one answer Jeff - get your trowel out and do this (see pic) then you have a continuous wall at one side and can safely reduce the pillar to a max of 1.5 bricks each way (in plan) using screw-in wall ties. I know the brickwork won't match precisely and the bond will look slightly odd but that apart it's a simple answer for someone of your building skills and it reduces the opportunity for draughts. Are the other internal piers clear of your railway planning 'envelope'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock67B Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Jeff, qualifying as a MechEng, I prefer working in steel, and so if the builder gives you a convincing reason for the necessity for such load bearing capacity, a steel tubular beam of fairly slender diameter would certainly do the job of half the thickness of the block structure in compression.Cost then of course comes in to the equation. Whatever you decide to do, you are absolutely right in your comment that nothing can be finalised until you get close enough to conduct a proper survey. I would definitely ask the builder the reason for putting in such a massive pillar however. Good luck and kind regards, Jock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2014 Jeff, qualifying as a MechEng, I prefer working in steel, and so if the builder gives you a convincing reason for the necessity for such load bearing capacity, a steel tubular beam of fairly slender diameter would certainly do the job of half the thickness of the block structure in compression.Cost then of course comes in to the equation. Whatever you decide to do, you are absolutely right in your comment that nothing can be finalised until you get close enough to conduct a proper survey. I would definitely ask the builder the reason for putting in such a massive pillar however. Good luck and kind regards, Jock. The idea of the pier is to add to the strength of the brickwork in the pillar between the two doors by spreading the load on that pillar so a steel beam would have to do the same and somehow 'strengthen' the brickwork. I was interested to see that in Jeff's 'hobby room' the strengthening is done using lightweight blocks instead of bricks and I do wonder if that is why they extend so far into the interior of the building (blockwork is of course much cheaper than brickwork as it can be thrown up built much more rapidly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 17, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2014 The idea of the pier is to add to the strength of the brickwork in the pillar between the two doors by spreading the load on that pillar so a steel beam would have to do the same and somehow 'strengthen' the brickwork. I was interested to see that in Jeff's 'hobby room' the strengthening is done using lightweight blocks instead of bricks and I do wonder if that is why they extend so far into the interior of the building (blockwork is of course much cheaper than brickwork as it can be thrown up built much more rapidly). Yes, Mike - I think you're probably right. But I'm not worried as there's always a solution to any problem (well, nearly). And how can I possible whinge when I'm lucky enough to have an entire double garage to "play" with?! Jeff 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted June 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2014 It is not clear from the pictures what they have done. If the roof is arranged so the ceiling level inside is above the wall plate it would not be possible to put a tie beam across to resist the outward force due to the roof. I suspect Mike has hit the nail on the head the centre pier should be re-inforced due to the width of the openings either side but 18ins deep should have been sufficient. However for cheapness they have used blocks and a signle blok pier not bonded in would have had the same strength hence such a big pillar. I would put the FY there and cut a block out and put a brick at the outer edge. You would have to shift some roads a bit. However it would probably invalidate the NHB guarrantee. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 18, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 18, 2014 Busy day today, so no contributions on here from me. Final Physics exams tomorrow and lots of help needed with astrophysics, thermal and radiation physics. Jeff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted June 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 18, 2014 Busy day today, so no contributions on here from me. Final Physics exams tomorrow and lots of help needed with astrophysics, thermal and radiation physics. Jeff Jeff, Are these 'A' level or GCSE? Can't beat some star gazing, a bit of heat and a dose of radiation. Now who needs model railways when you can do physics? (? Discuss. Answers on a postcard please.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrkirtley800 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 ChrisN, or, another teaser, ---- rearrange the following into a well known phrase or saying ---- off sod !! Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 18, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 18, 2014 I do love my Physics.... Astrophysics has always been my first love. Combined with railways it'll make for a 24 hour day! Off sod, eh. Sorry, Derek, I can't work that one out. Never been too good with anagrams! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 18, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 18, 2014 Jeff, Are these 'A' level or GCSE? Can't beat some star gazing, a bit of heat and a dose of radiation. Now who needs model railways when you can do physics? (? Discuss. Answers on a postcard please.) Sorry, Chris. They are A level. Despite a bit of watering-down over the years, the Astrophysics Option offered by the AQA exam board is excellent, giving the chance to look into stars, nebulae, cosmology and the like in some depth. Jeff 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock67B Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Although I studied mechanical engineering Jeff, I soon realised that none of it works without the physics! My dad always had a fascination with the 'heavens' and instilled it in me although, my interest in astro-physics was simply recreational. I still take the 'New Scientist' thanks to his teachings. Keep up the good work - I was lucky enough to have a physics lecturer with enthusiasm like that of a Patrick Moore, he gripped his audience of students so much so that you could hear a pin drop during his lectures. He also ran a 'forum' after a lecture to ensure full understanding. Some poor devils still suffer the notes on the blackboard type of teaching! I admire your obvious commitment and hope you have a good crop this exam season! Kind regards, Jock. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Good instructors- it doesn't matter what the way of conveying the info is. Blackboard, electronic, or "more primitive visual aids, as they say in the Ed Biz", all are aids to the understanding of the students. Some form of aid is good if you are teaching HOW to do math/physics, out of preference I like PowerPoint and a white board, but that's me. (most of my course materials are in PP, as there are about 6 of us who teach the courses on rotational basis...and consistency is fairly important) My courses have a lot of applied physics. If you don't apply the 4x4 to the hole correctly, you discover buoyancy, and Archimedes bath overflows...or, you get rather warm... (about 573 k warm or so...). The place will be on TV in the near future, again. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock67B Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Good instructors- it doesn't matter what the way of conveying the info is. Blackboard, electronic, or "more primitive visual aids, as they say in the Ed Biz", all are aids to the understanding of the students. Some form of aid is good if you are teaching HOW to do math/physics, out of preference I like PowerPoint and a white board, but that's me. (most of my course materials are in PP, as there are about 6 of us who teach the courses on rotational basis...and consistency is fairly important) My courses have a lot of applied physics. If you don't apply the 4x4 to the hole correctly, you discover buoyancy, and Archimedes bath overflows...or, you get rather warm... (about 573 k warm or so...). The place will be on TV in the near future, again. James Morning James, Agreed, but I must make clear what I meant by 'notes on the blackboard' teaching. Had one lecturer who did just that, copied out his uni. notes on to the board, we copied them down and trotted them out in exams. Got us through but we all disliked the method because it simply didn't feel like learning! Kind regards, Jock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrkirtley800 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 In my early student days, one of our lectures was at the hands of the head of chemistry at the local college. He wrote a long physical chemistry equation on the board and while we were trying to scribble it down in our note books, he decided that this quantity cancelled out that, and this number was insignificant compared with the other. All the time rubbing out so when we looked up, what he had bore no resemblance to the thing he started with. All we could do was wonder what the hell was going on. Derek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 19, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 19, 2014 In my early student days, one of our lectures was at the hands of the head of chemistry at the local college. He wrote a long physical chemistry equation on the board and while we were trying to scribble it down in our note books, he decided that this quantity cancelled out that, and this number was insignificant compared with the other. All the time rubbing out so when we looked up, what he had bore no resemblance to the thing he started with. All we could do was wonder what the hell was going on. Derek Derek, you almost make me wish I was going back to teach in schools/colleges again. Giving me ideas like that.... I was obviously far too kind as a teacher. Mind you, some of the students probably thought that the Physics I put on the blackboard/powerpoint/interactive white board was gobbledegook, however complete it was. It was Physics - supposedly a tough subject..... Jeff 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted June 19, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 19, 2014 Sorry, Chris. They are A level. Despite a bit of watering-down over the years, the Astrophysics Option offered by the AQA exam board is excellent, giving the chance to look into stars, nebulae, cosmology and the like in some depth. Jeff Jeff, Thanks. I wondered as I thought all 'A' levels were over at the end of May. Different exam board I assume. I will not go on about how important inspiring teachers are as it is supposed to be a model railway thread. Physics/model railways? I think we have both made our decision. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 19, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 19, 2014 Jeff, Thanks. I wondered as I thought all 'A' levels were over at the end of May. Different exam board I assume. I will not go on about how important inspiring teachers are as it is supposed to be a model railway thread. Physics/model railways? I think we have both made our decision. Maybe, but it's my thread and I don't mind. We seem to have a similar outlook on many things. And the Physics / model railway interest. Coincidence? I think not. Looking forward to getting the telescope out in the darker skies I'm moving to.... Jeff 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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