Jon Gwinnett Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Can I add a query? It all looks superb, but the scenic areas look very deep. How do you propose to reach the rearmost areas to work? Will you have access hatches, or a topside creeper? Hasten to say not a criticism, I'm looking forward to watching this grow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 9, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2012 Amazing structure Jeff, but as you say, it has to last and NOTwarp, at the rate you are going you will be laying track next week. P.S I cant sleep tonight as I am planning another project. Yes, I'm staggered - look at the time! 3 in the morning! I often find my brain gets hyperactive and doesn't want to shut down at night - normally, as you said, when something new and exciting is in the offing. Have you still got all your previous layouts, and, if so, where do you store them! The frame is just about done and I'm very pleased with it. It is only a base for what goes above and things will now grind to a halt as I've got to buy all the track...and that's budgeted for the end of July. So you'll have to be patient for further progress! All the best, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 9, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2012 Can I add a query? It all looks superb, but the scenic areas look very deep. How do you propose to reach the rearmost areas to work? Will you have access hatches, or a topside creeper? Hasten to say not a criticism, I'm looking forward to watching this grow. Hi Jon, If you have a look at post 34 you'll see a plan of the layout. I've left access areas in the corners of the room. There will be a couple of small hatches, but I've learnt from experience to avoid these where possible. Access to the fiddle yard will be from the door-side: the fiddle yard will be underneath a rising hillside. I'm sure I'm going to make a lot of botches as things progress. Not least of which is the location and fitting of the risers on which the baseboard will sit. The board itself will be 25ish cm above the subframe - I'm trying to avoid problems that beset my last layout where I had poor access to fitting stuff like point motors under the baseboard. But I love problem-solving, and this project is like one giant jigsaw puzzle. At the moment it's gone exactly to plan, but I can't see that continuing...! Cheers, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Makes sense. Presumably a crawl way into the middle operating well. Rather than a lifting section? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 9, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2012 Makes sense. Presumably a crawl way into the middle operating well. Rather than a lifting section? Quite right, Jon. A crawl - and it's a sign of increasing age that crawling under the layout starts to become an issue. Nevermind - in a few years time I'll maybe modify the door-fiddle yard access. Btw, as I said on your other thread, many thanks for the S&C photos. I've assembled a collection, but you can never have too many. And congrats on your imminent 1000 posts!! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) And congrats on your imminent 1000 posts!! Jeff Never noticed. Wasted the 1000th too. Never mind Edited June 9, 2012 by Jon Gwinnett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 You're notching up the Westerns now Jon, for some of us it's an interminable trudge through the shunter fleet!* * for diesel fans, that is. I understand a steam railway also had a fleet with these numbers... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 9, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2012 OK, the big moment...after 5 days cutting, drilling, screwing and fixing, the subframe is completed. Now I'll have a rest and save my pennies so I can order the track next month! On the other hand, there's the risers and the ply baseboard to start on...umm, no-brainer really!! Attached 2 pics showing completed subframe, along with 3 more added legs. And I wonder if eagle-eyed Mike (The Stationmaster) notices anything? Jeff 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 looking good mate, cant wait to see the risers going on and then it will really take shape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 9, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2012 looking good mate, cant wait to see the risers going on and then it will really take shape. Cheers Andy. I've spent the last 3 hours looking at my trackplan, subframe plan and working out where to fit the risers and how to cut the ply baseboard. But thinking just drives me mad - I think I'll just get on AND DO!! Probably try a few things in the coming week. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 9, 2012 OK, the big moment...after 5 days cutting, drilling, screwing and fixing, the subframe is completed. Now I'll have a rest and save my pennies so I can order the track next month! On the other hand, there's the risers and the ply baseboard to start on...umm, no-brainer really!! Attached 2 pics showing completed subframe, along with 3 more added legs. And I wonder if eagle-eyed Mike (The Stationmaster) notices anything? Jeff I spy with my little eye - something beginning with 'glue' in some of the joints (well it might be something else but I reckon it's glue ). So now some sort of 'broad brush' cuts of ply sheet are laid on the top and 'jiggled' before marking for final position and cutting (and to achieve best economic use of the sheets of course) and at the same time the positioning of the risers is worked out, and marked (from underneath?). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted June 9, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2012 I never spotted that; all I saw was a cat flap that appears to be a long way up the blue door and I have to admit, I did wonder why Jeff was wondering whether Mike had spotted it... Jeff, you really should have a go at building your own turnouts, even if they are just PCB ones like mine. After all, if a cack-handed fool like me can do it, then you are sure to make a far better job of it. Brian Harrap and Gordon S have put up an encyclopaedic amount of info on RMWeb on how to go about it, Martin Wynne is on hand to find your way around Templot, it will give you a lot of satisfaction and will save you a fortune that you can then spend on 4F's, 5MT's, 9F's, etc. :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 9, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2012 I never spotted that; all I saw was a cat flap that appears to be a long way up the blue door and I have to admit, I did wonder why Jeff was wondering whether Mike had spotted it... Jeff, you really should have a go at building your own turnouts, even if they are just PCB ones like mine. After all, if a cack-handed fool like me can do it, then you are sure to make a far better job of it. Brian Harrap and Gordon S have put up an encyclopaedic amount of info on RMWeb on how to go about it, Martin Wynne is on hand to find your way around Templot, it will give you a lot of satisfaction and will save you a fortune that you can then spend on 4F's, 5MT's, 9F's, etc. :-) Don't tempt me Jason! Even a few years ago I wouldn't have dreamed of doing some of the stuff I now take for granted. And it's the expertise on Forums like this that encourages us all. Only 6 months ago I was still thinking of sticking with Peco code 100, now it's SMP. Hell, Andy P has almost got me thinking about weathering. And yourself, Ben Alder (Richard) and Jam (Southern Region Steam) have got my fire up for scratchbuilding. Add to that the S&C group - hell, where will I find the time? I know - I'll retire... Which is exactly what I'm doing in 6 weeks time! Hey, hey!! Oh well, turnouts...umm... Best wishes, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 9, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2012 I spy with my little eye - something beginning with 'glue' in some of the joints (well it might be something else but I reckon it's glue ). So now some sort of 'broad brush' cuts of ply sheet are laid on the top and 'jiggled' before marking for final position and cutting (and to achieve best economic use of the sheets of course) and at the same time the positioning of the risers is worked out, and marked (from underneath?). I knew you'd spot the tell-tale glue smears. I don't doubt the efficacy of my joinery, but just to add even MORE strength I added PVA to all the joints I could easily get at - which came to 48 out of 60... not bad! Over a litre of PVA, in addition to 3" screws...I think the garage will collapse before the subframe!! As for the ply...Mike, you've done this thing before. Exactly right! Cheers, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I thought the cat flap was part of the plan to provide access to the fiddle yard... Nick 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) Glad to hear you're using SMP although remember that much of the S&C was relaid in FB rail relatively early I think? For that, respaced Peco 75 (as used on Outon Road) or Exactoscale easitrack (yes I know they have the wrong clips, but the rail section and sleeper spacing are better) would look better. Or go the whole hog and use the Colin Craig etched parts! Although I haven't started a thread yet for my Eden valley plans, I'm coming to the conclusion that with the need to turn back in barely 7ft width, fine scale OO will be the way ahead. Unless we win the lottery and I build KSW in a barn somewhere. Edited June 9, 2012 by Jon Gwinnett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 9, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) Glad to hear you're using SMP although remember that much of the S&C was relaid in FB rail relatively early I think? For that, respaced Peco 75 (as used on Outon Road) or Exactoscale easitrack (yes I know they have the wrong clips, but the rail section and sleeper spacing are better) would look better. Or go the whole hog and use the Colin Craig etched parts! Although I haven't started a thread yet for my Eden valley plans, I'm coming to the conclusion that with the need to turn back in barely 7ft width, fine scale OO will be the way ahead. Unless we win the lottery and I build KSW in a barn somewhere. That's another new thing I've learned today. I want to be careful about how far I go down the prototypical route, otherwise I'll stop myself and triple-question every decision I make. So I'm going for the "spirit of the S&C" which means homage to a typical S&C style station and the all-important landscape. I've always enjoyed the design and actual build of the project more than the precise detail. But, as your post and Jason's above show, it's very easy - if we choose - to get very close to the real thing. With all the photographic evidence you've provided - and I must single out Ian Macdonald here (his excellent Kirkby Stephen West layout may be familiar to you) for sending me megabytes of photos and research - I have no excuses for not attempting scratchbuilds of S&C structures. But I think I'll be happy with the SMP - and hope my trains are too! Cheers Jon, Jeff Edited June 9, 2012 by Physicsman 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 9, 2012 As for the ply...Mike, you've done this thing before. Exactly right! Jeff Essential difference is Jeff that I did it with 12mm MDF and made a slight horlicks of some of it (apart from ending up with 'lightweight construction' for 'portable' baseboard units which required the help of Hercules to move them (and I'd put in the cross braces before figuring out the point positions) .... So the most recent portable board used a top of 5.5mm ply (but that needed a bit of stiffening of course). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 9, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) Essential difference is Jeff that I did it with 12mm MDF and made a slight horlicks of some of it (apart from ending up with 'lightweight construction' for 'portable' baseboard units which required the help of Hercules to move them (and I'd put in the cross braces before figuring out the point positions) .... So the most recent portable board used a top of 5.5mm ply (but that needed a bit of stiffening of course). Interesting! My last layout - where I used a 44mm x 44mm half-lap frame - had an 18mm (should we say 3/4 " in old money?) chipboard top and that weighed a ton. I added various bits using 6mm MDF - great material - but for the present layout I'm trying 12mm ply. I got to like the stuff when building the walls for the garage conversion. And I'm convinced I'm going to make a "horlicks" of the next stage too. However, (a) I will do a bit of experimenting first, and ( b ) if I cock it up, do you think I'll put it in the thread? Well, actually, I will!! Cheers, Jeff Edited June 9, 2012 by Physicsman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 ...I must single out Ian Macdonald here (his excellent Kirkby Stephen West layout may be familiar to you) for sending me megabytes of photos and research - I have no excuses for not attempting scratchbuilds of S&C structures. But I think I'll be happy with the SMP - and hope my trains are too! Cheers Jon, Jeff I'm sure you'll be happy with SMP and the rest of us will admire your achievements. It will look so much better than just plain Peco. Not the place to rehash the debate but if only Peco or someone with their manufacturing clout would do UK outline track in OO. I may have to tap up Ian Macdonald if I do ever model KSW - in the meantime if you need any detail shots or different angles on the buildings please shout, if I don't already have the photo you need it'll be a good excuse to go visit mum. I'm lucky it's only a few hours away from Edinburgh. When I first travelled the line as a child in the 1980s, I never for one moment imagined we would live alongside it. It seemed very romantic, if that's the right word, sweeping majestically through the fells. Quite an experience for boy from Basingstoke! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 9, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) I'm sure you'll be happy with SMP and the rest of us will admire your achievements. It will look so much better than just plain Peco. Not the place to rehash the debate but if only Peco or someone with their manufacturing clout would do UK outline track in OO. I may have to tap up Ian Macdonald if I do ever model KSW - in the meantime if you need any detail shots or different angles on the buildings please shout, if I don't already have the photo you need it'll be a good excuse to go visit mum. I'm lucky it's only a few hours away from Edinburgh. When I first travelled the line as a child in the 1980s, I never for one moment imagined we would live alongside it. It seemed very romantic, if that's the right word, sweeping majestically through the fells. Quite an experience for boy from Basingstoke! Hi Jon, Does your mum live near the S&C? My dad lives in Barrow-in-Furness, and I go over to see him 6-8 times a year. My path takes me past Kirkby Stephen station, so it's like an old friend to me. A mate and I plan to have a good few days on the S&C this summer, driving to KS, parking and away we go! Ian Macdonald sent me a dvd with all his KSW research, photos, past articles, magazine photos, layout development etc. All from a simple remark I made re. the Huddersfield MRS and whether it had any info on "their" KSW layout - which is actually Ian's. Hope I'm making sense! The generosity of people on this Forum has to be seen to be believed, including your very kind offer. If you hadn't already worked it out, I'm retiring soon. I worked in research, and have been teaching Physics for nearly 30 years. Time to get out, so I have. Hopefully this will free-up plenty of time to do lots of modelling, visit interesting places and chat to all you guys on RMW. Best wishes, Jeff Edited June 9, 2012 by Physicsman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Hope retirement leaves you enough time for modelling, a lot of people say they wonder how they ever fitted work in! Yes, my mum lives in Kirkby Stephen, my parents moved there in 1990, so from then on uni holidays etc were spent in KS, and after finishing my degree I lived there until work took me to Edinburgh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted June 9, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2012 Hope retirement leaves you enough time for modelling, a lot of people say they wonder how they ever fitted work in! Yes, my mum lives in Kirkby Stephen, my parents moved there in 1990, so from then on uni holidays etc were spent in KS, and after finishing my degree I lived there until work took me to Edinburgh. Well. as they say, it's a small world! Though having said that, with nearly 16,000 members of this Forum, I suppose it's inevitable there are a few people who live in proximity to the S&C. No doubt you are heavily into the Waverley with 'CHARD, Max Stafford and the "crew"? Again, a great bunch - I may know a lot of Physics but my railway knowledge is minute in comparison to many here. No problem,,,expertise on tap when you need it. I've been to Edinburgh on a number of occasions - though not recently (1995 for a Star Trek exhibition!!). I'm off for my beauty sleep - hoping to dream-up solutions to the next stage of the project! Cheers, Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 SMP is a sound choice, well I would say that having just invested heavily in same, and conscripted myself to a long and comprehensive programme of relaying on Teviotbank. I think we can add Dave (Max Stafford) who's made a similar choice for Ruberslaw, into the OO FS mix with SMP too. Problem I have now is, seeing your frames Jeff, I'm half minded to reconstruct portions of TK to iron out some known problems with twist and distortion that I feel sure will be unforgiving with my new SMP direction. Your structure is a work of art, man! I'm sure you'll be happy with SMP and the rest of us will admire your achievements. It will look so much better than just plain Peco. Not the place to rehash the debate but if only Peco or someone with their manufacturing clout would do UK outline track in OO. ..... I'm lucky it's only a few hours away from Edinburgh. When I first travelled the line as a child in the 1980s, I never for one moment imagined we would live alongside it. It seemed very romantic, if that's the right word, sweeping majestically through the fells. Quite an experience for boy from Basingstoke! I think 'romantic' is precisely the word. Perversely, I don't recall us using the word directly about the Waverley, although we've explored manifold areas of its peculiar allure, which brings me on to: No doubt you are heavily into the Waverley with 'CHARD, Max Stafford and the "crew"? Again, a great bunch - I may know a lot of Physics but my railway knowledge is minute in comparison to many here. No problem,,,expertise on tap when you need it. Hehehe! Well if you're not Jon, you'll be made very welcome at the WR Group; we're a well meaning bunch, albeit driven by a burning desire to forensically evangelise about our adopted 98 miles of main line! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Jeff, What a great thread! Just read it for the first time. In some respects our philosophies are diametrically opposed but nothing wrong with that (I once built a recording studio in a double garage and it was a literal pain when I had to move - not many people need them). Now my studio is in my Imac and I just stop when a jet goes over, much cheaper...). Similarly I'm going lighter and lighter with regard to construction of baseboards - maybe it is because I see layouts as ephemeral, when I've finished them they get stripped down almost immediately (I'm not one for operations and get bored quickly when I become proficient at something - my most annoying trait). I'm now heading to Foamboard baseboards. Anyway thanks, again. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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