Underground Train Red

[Metr0Land]

Some of you will know I’ve been trying to get Underground Train Red ‘right’ - bearing in mind colour is very subjective, and the emulsion on old colour film types can vary.

 

Train red in the 50’s and early 60’s was darker than bus red (though later on it all became bus red ).

 

One of the problems (even allowing for variations in film) seems to me that train red was very bright when applied - to the extent of having a slight orange tint. It quickly greyed, so for stock that had been around for a while the colour was quite different from when cars were released to traffic.

 

Peugeot Cherry (Red) was said to be good for representing the red but I wasn’t sure when I tried it at first (but see later).

 

I’ve had a couple of Little Bus Company resin kits for several years that I got on a well known auction site - a Q23 driver and a Q38 trailer. I was hoping for some Q27 or Q35 bodies to come up but they never seem to - trying to get a varied rake.

 

Anyway, I thought I’d have a go at these. Since I have nothing else to complete the set, I might as well have 2 different Q body colours in order to practice. First up, the Q38 trailer which I sprayed Nissan Flame Red. This feels ‘right’ to me for newly overhauled stock, and although it’s bright, I don’t expect to have many (if any) more cars this colour, feel it is ok.

 

 

Next up, the Q23 driver. The top coat on this is Peugeot Cherry. I wasn’t altogether happy with this until I started weathering. This seemed to bring it to life a lot, especially as the Q23 has many panels for dirt to get caught in the corners.

 

My normal method (above the frames) is to coat with a mix of Joes Model Trains acrylics. These are sold for weathering track and rails but I find them equally good for weathering stock. My mix for this was 3 parts Dark Brown with 1 part Shale and 1 part water.

 

Before the mix dries, most of it is wiped off with Q tips or a cloth leaving plenty of dirt trapped in all those places that Q23’s seemed to be covered with.

 

 

All being well, these should be on display at the May exhibition:

http://www.rmweb.co....rail-expo-2012/

 

Some additional Q stock pics on my Aylesbury Junction thread:

http://www.rmweb.co....sbury-junction/

[Xerces Fobe2]

Games Workshop Citidel paints Blood Red and then weather with Badab Black wash.

 

We could form a long Q at the Thames Valley Expo Show!

 

XF

[Metr0Land]

Black is good but I'm not sure it's quite right. To my eyes, well-travelled underground stock seems to have a dusty brown layer and a layer that has more of a dark grey note to it rather than black. I know one modeller who uses enamels rather than acrylics uses Humbrol anthracite as a thin wash.

[Xerces Fobe2]

Here is another photo of my Q Stock using the acylics detailed in my post above

 

 

XF

[Metr0Land]

Should definitely be a grey tinge to them

 

[Xerces Fobe2]

As an aside Citadel "Sunburst Yellow" is perfect for Underground departmental stock

 

XF

[Metr0Land]

As an aside Citadel "Sunburst Yellow" is perfect for Underground departmental stock

 

XF

 

Not for my era it isn't! Maybe ok for some of these young fella me lads, but I'd need something with a lot more maroon in it

[Matloughe]

I've never seen a 'real' Q stock I am about 15-20 years too young for LT Red trains

 

My example which I am quite pleased with; it is Halfords Red Primer with Vauxhall Carmine Red over the top. 2 coats of primer (3 for roof) and two coats of Carmine Red on the body. I love the weathering on your Q23 Metro its ace! Look forwards to seeing more. I am tempted to remotor my Q23 with a black beetle in the future I can't stand the spud's screeching noise. Its quite an old photo - I apologise. While I was mocking up my layout; the interior has been painted now but still no number or fleetname to proclaim she is loved.

 

Cheers,

~ Gary

[Karhedron]

My example which I am quite pleased with; it is Halfords Red Primer with Vauxhall Carmine Red over the top. 2 coats of primer (3 for roof) and two coats of Carmine Red on the body.

That is the same shade I use for BR Crimson and was my initial thought too. I wonder if we can find any colour shots of red LT stock next to crimson Br stock? Somewhere between QP and Watford perhaps or maybe Finsbury park? I am guessing it is unlikely.

[Metr0Land]

I love the weathering on your Q23 Metro its ace!

Cheers,

~ Gary

 

Thanks. For weathering the sides of locos and stock I use a limited palette of 4 colours. I’m not a fan of enamels so use Joes Model Trains acrylics. These are sold for track weathering but are equally useful for stock.

 

The 4 colours are Shale, Dark Brown, Brown Rust and Weathered Black. For the Q23 I used 3 parts dark brown + 1 part shale, watered down slightly as I wanted a long-in-the-tooth effect. The mix was then applied, and left for a few mins. Before it sets, rub down with a damp cotton bud or J cloth.

 

ie basically what I’m doing is what’s recommended in most weathering articles at present except I don’t own an airbrush and don’t like enamels!

 

Roof and under-frames are of course a lot more grey/black. In some articles using enamel paints, people recommend mixing talcum powder into the paint. My under frame technique is similar. I paint on a mix of grey/black/whatever depending on how weathered the stock is meant to be. For well-used items, I stipple in some dark grey powder whilst it’s drying to get the ‘granular’ feel of dirt-encrusted oil. If the colour isn’t quite right then when it’s dry I over brush with more powder of a colour that’s appropriate to what I’m aiming for.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention - good practice with weathering is always to start from a pic - don't guess with weathering if you can avoid it. eg:

[Matloughe]

Indeed some lovely Q23 photos on there. But call me an idealist I do like to see my rolling stock clean - I am slightly leaning towards some minor weathering on running gear etc or smudges in the corners where its hard to clean but aside from that I prefer my stock pristine at the moment.

 

Anyone else thinking we should have a Q Stock meet?

"I'll show you mine if you show me yours..."

 

Cheers,

~ Gary

[SRman]

I'm using the Cherry Paints Underground train red. It is a good representation of a freshly outshopped shade (IMHO) but a little dark for a vehicle that's been in service for a while. See my avatar on the left.

 

I do like what I have seen in this thread. Nice to know there are a few of us LT modellers around.

[GoingUnderground]

....I've never seen a 'real' Q stock I am about 15-20 years too young for LT Red trains ....

 

You're not too late to see one. Visit the LT Museum in Covent Garden, they have a Q23 DM on display, http://www.ltmcollec...5&_IXFIRST_=364

 

The Museum Depot's 4 car Q Stock set is currently being restored. I'm not sure whether it will become another heritage set in full running order like the '38 Tube Stock. I believe the '38 Tube stock 4 Car set heritage train in the Depot is finished in Train Red. It certainly has the gold lettering that goes with Train Red.

[Metr0Land]

I’d say the 1938 set is probably train red. This 2005 pic was taken with the front almost in daylight at the Feb 2005 Acton open day. It looks a bit bright for train red but this is probably because it was painted in the museum and isn’t let out much to get worn.

 

 

This shot shows the 3 x Q-cars which I’d say are definitely in train red taken from the inside end of the shed. (Same day)

 

 

This shows the front of the Q38 driver and you can just see a small portion of the red of the 1938 car also in the darker end of the shed, and I’d say both reds are the same. (Same day)

 

[Matloughe]

As a friend of the LTM yes they are magnificent machines - what I meant by not seeing a 'real' one is actually running on the system. I was on the Northern Line 100th Birthday tour on the 1938 tube stock and that was an unforgettable day to say the least.

The Q23 DM in the actual museum is in the most awful location for photography - no natural light; stuck up against a grey wall so its useless trying to take the colour off of that but as far as I am aware its in the same colour as the above units - which is darker richer then the colour scheme I painted my own Q23 DM in I think.

 

Cheers,

~ Gary

[Xerces Fobe2]

Paid a visit to Games Workshop today and purchased some ot there new range of Citidel paints colours - One of the colurs I ontained is "Wazdakka Red" which whilst a little on the light side if small amount of black is added could be a good likeness to the the per bus red red which was carried by 1927,1938 Q & R stock and others.

 

XF

[JohnRT4760]

It's a few years since I modelled soem Underground (red) trains from scratch. I initially used humbrol 19 but of course this was nearer bus red than train red.

In the end I did use Peugeot Cherry Red but was disappointed that it seemed the same as the humbrol, BUT what I hadn't realised was the need for a red oxide undercoat. Once this was done the shade was to my eyes very acceptable as train red.

The few trains I built in the (correctly applied) cherry red were sold but here's an F stock in the humbrol. http://www.flickr.com/photos/kingswayjohn/4396227112/

[Metr0Land]

Looks good. I liked this shot of yours which conveys the colour and atmosphere well:

 

[JohnRT4760]

Thank you.

With scratchbuilt stock from plasticard running on Hornby bogies, it was very much done with the emphasis on what I thought it should look like, rather than detailed to the last rivet. After all, running only three car trains, reality has to be suspended from the very start! Much of the stock remains in a box somewhere, as I got diverted to tramways see http://www.flickr.com/photos/kingswayjohn/collections/72157623410822909/