West Kirby Town: narrow gauge is coming to town.

[alant]

Now sold as 'Toucan Studio Gum'... I guess you'll also remember galleys set on an IBM Selectric, Letraset and blue chinagraph pencils then – happy days? ;-)

 

David

I'm old enough to remember "hot metal" as we'll. I moved to the supplier side many years ago, still involved supplying publishing (both print and web) solutions.

 

Apologies for the small high jack Rod. New point work is looking good.

 

Alan.

[David Siddall]

Indeed, no hijack intended... Alan and I were just dodging the potholes down memory lane ;-)

 

David

Edited March 30, 2013 by David Siddall

[Dmudriver]

Hi David and Alan.

 

No need to apologise for the "hijack" or the trip down memory lane!!  In fact, I saw David's post just before I left for York and did wonder what on earth cow gum was!!  I'd never heard of it, nor had a few people I asked at York so your little bit of reminiscing has enlightened me!!  I've even looked up Toucan Studio Gum on Google!!

 

It does, however, raise questions such as: do you dilute with hot or cold water?  In what proportions?  How long does it take to dry?  When it's mixed is it thick or thin, i.e. does it flow easily?

 

See what you've started???!!!!  I'm really interested, though, if it cuts down the noise.  Even though I'll not be reaching high speeds on the layout, the less unwanted sound the better!!

 

Hopefully I'll be able to do more work on the layout this week so will update as and when.

 

Rod

 

PS        Thanks for the comment on the pointwork, Alan.  Not only does it look better, but it works better, too!!  Highly satisfying - which is what I think the hobby should be about.

[David Siddall]

Hi Alan, I know that the formulation of 'Studio Gum has changed over the years – back in the 1980s when Health and Safety seemed to be mainly concerned with obvious physical injury it was perfectly acceptable to handle and breathe all sorts noxious substances in the printing industry!

 

Cow Gum was readily spreadable out of the tin when its consistency was not dissimilar to EvoStick. We used to use lighter fuel to thin and dissolve it (it needs a petrochemical solvent). I'm just beginning to wonder whether there might be any chemicals still in Studio Gum composition which might effect plastics but I'm guessing its unlikely as you need an awful lot of Butanone to seriously soften the plastic C&L use for chairs and sleepers – not however something I'd have to worry about since my sleepers are ply timber.

Initially I'm going to have a go with Copydex as it can be bought in both small (tester-size) and larger quantities at very reasonable cost from our local DIY store. It's water soluble but its downsides are that it can go stringy as it dries and it stinks – I think it has something like ammonia in it even though its frequently used in schools!

 

The tracklaying approach I've seen suggested using either would be to spread the adhesive fairly thickly over the track bed, place the track and lightly pin it in place (Peco track pins?), shake ballast over the top and then tap the surrounding baseboard to settle the ballast grains.

With the usual provisos here's wiki page which covers both types of adhesive

 

David

Edited April 2, 2013 by David Siddall

[Dmudriver]

Hi David.

 

An interesting approach that you've seen suggested!!  My thinking is that you'd need a pretty thick layer of glue to get the ballast up to the top of the sleepers.  That's, I think, why I'd never considered this approach - I've always put dry ballast down and then soaked it with the adhesive.  [Assuming, of course, that you want it to the top of the sleepers!!]

 

I'll be interested to see the results.  You'll probably get to that stage before me, but if by any chance I get there first, I'll try that method and post my comments on here.

 

I do like the platforms on your layout!!  Most impressive!!  I'm a bit nervous about mine as a lot of the length of mine is on a curve but I'll give it a go when I get to that stage.  However, before that I must get the new pointwork and relaid track fully operational and replace the curved crossover outside the station.  Then I can play trains again!!

 

Rod

Edited April 2, 2013 by Dmudriver

[David Siddall]

My thinking is that you'd need a pretty thick layer of glue to get the ballast up to the top of the sleepers.

The depth of ballast using the method I've gone for would seem to depend on the size of the grains Rod and it does indeed require quite a thick layer of adhesive. What appeals to me about the technique though is that it's quick and gives a nice tidy consistent covering. I've certainly seen photographic prototype evidence of ballast not coming right to the tops of the sleepers. Maybe, since the ballast I'm using is quite fine, I might add a second layer. I'll wait and see how it looks when I've had a go at some more.

 

 

I have to say that your new pointwork's looking very classy... your new 4-car set's going snake across it in some style. I can almost hear the prototypical clatter of multiple 4-wheel bogies :-)

 

David

Edited April 3, 2013 by David Siddall

[hartleymartin]

P1020187 - Copy.JPG

 

This particular image helped me solve an issue with planning my own shunting layout. The use of two Wye points saves a few inches and also eases the radius of the curves.

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

Not much to say about my own layout at the moment, unfortunately, as I've been busy elsewhere!!

 

Thanks for the pics of your ballast, David.  It certainly gives me something to think about.  On the subject of spreading ballast, I bought a hopper a while ago that spreads the ballast for you.  I haven't used it yet, but I bought it knowing I'd have loads to do.  I'll take a pic or two shortly to show what I mean.

 

I've seen the bodies for the 115, on their bogies, painted blue!!  What I hadn't really appreciated was how long it is!!!  It will certainly snake over the pointwork!  I reckon I need at least 6'6" siding length for it.  Fortunately, the headshunt will be just that length when I've extended it and the long siding in the stabling point will accommodate it OK.  I could still lengthen the latter a bit if I need to.  Driving into the stabling point with the 4-car will be interesting!!  The lad who's building it for me was complaining about the number of door hinges he's had to fit!!

 

As I said above, I've been busy elsewhere:  these 2 pics are from the Club's layout (Preston 0 Gauge Group) just to show I don't rip up track only on my own layout!!  The first pic shows the site of 2 parallel tracks after I'd been at it:  

 

 

Then I put this back:

 

 

Apologies for the pic being a bit blurred - I used my iPhone.  The curves look a bit sharp on the photo (I think it's because I zoomed in on the crossover) but they're at least 6' radius.

 

Then last night I was laying track for a couple of pals who want a Scottish themed layout - an island platform and a couple of sidings - about 16' long!!  Didn't get a pic as it was a bit dark for the iPhone.

 

Now it's time to do more on mine!!  Will update soon.

 

Rod

 

 

[Dmudriver]

HI all.

 

I've done a bit more on my layout, but after a couple of senior moments, I thought I wouldn't stay in the shed too long.  The first was thinking my wood drill bits had gone blunt when drilling holes for the motors under the Peco Points (I'd got the drill running backwards!!) and then I thought my soldering iron wasn't working (I hadn't turned it on at the wall socket!!!)

 

I've taken a couple of pics of the ballast spreader I was talking about earlier.  It slides along the rails and the ballast drops out through the holes at the bottom.  The first is a general view and the second shows the "brushes" (as I call them) which keep the ballast no higher than the sleeper tops.  These fit in the square holes visible at the bottom of the spreader.  That's the theory anyway, and it worked well on the 4mm track demo.  I'll report back when I've used it myself, but anything to help with the amount of plain track I've got to ballast!

 

 

 

I've done some work on the Peco points (I mentioned in an earlier post that the covers over the tiebars really showed up, so I thought I'd take them off).   That looked better, but I thought the rounded centre didn't look right so I trimmed it - this was how it ended up:

 

 

It looks better, but I then found out why the centre of the plastic tiebar is rounded: if the fishplates attaching the blades to the other rails are loose, the tiebar moves and you end up with a gap in the rails - like this:

 

 

I'd already taken off the wires that connected the frogs to the point blades so I used some of that wire to bridge the gap where the fishplates are on the point blades: this ensures there is electrical continuity along the full length of the blades, but also stops the blades from moving apart  See the pic below:

 

 

I also used some of the wire to bond the point blades to the stock rails (in this pic, one was already done.  As is pretty obvious, the point had been used before!!).  There are 2 more to do, but I gave up after the first.

 

So I'm now going to watch "Plebs" on catch-up tv and then go to bed.  More tomorrow, hopefully!!!

 

Rod

[Jon Fitness]

So I'm now going to watch "Plebs" on catch-up tv and then go to bed.  More tomorrow, hopefully!!!

 

Rod

Good Man! Funniest thing on the telly at the moment!

 Is it just me or does "Grumio" remind you of a character regularly seen selling signal bits at exhibitions.. .?

JF

[Dmudriver]

I've just watched it, John.  It's the first time I've watched it: not quite what I expected, but it's really funny!!!  In fact, I'm still laughing!!  And yes, I do see what you mean about Grumio!!!

 

I watched the 3rd episode on TV, I'll have to watch 1 and 2 online.  Really looking forward to that.  Makes a change from railway modelling!!!

 

 

Rod

Edited April 4, 2013 by Dmudriver

[Dmudriver]

Just a bit of an update.

 

I've been refitting the Tortoise motors to the pointwork on my own and have found that double sided sticky tape is useful for holding them in place.  Not for ever, but it helps in positioning correctly and then inserting the screws.

 

It's not foolproof, especially when 2 are wired together but it does help.  One problem I've come across is that the wiring was fixed under the board for the original layout: the new positioning of the points means that some of that has to be moved too.  Not insoluble, but a nuisance!!

 

I've not posted any pics as they wouldn't add anything - all they would show is a jumble of wires and I'm sure you've all seen that before!!!

 

Not doing any work on the layout tonight, though, as I'm recovering from my Speed Awareness course!!!   [Actually, it was really very useful - it certainly made me think about my driving!!]

 

More soon.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Just to add to the jobs to do - I've taken delivery today of 2 x B8 turnouts from C&L for the trailing crossover on the curve on the approach to the station.  I'm planning to build them in situ - but not until I've refitted all the Tortoise motors and refitted all the wiring!!  The plan is to curve the points.  I did consider Peco curved points, which were a pretty good fit, but having built some C&Ls already and liking the way they look, that is what I went for.

 

I'll chronicle my progress when I get started.

 

Rod

[Jon Fitness]

Just to add to the jobs to do - I've taken delivery today of 2 x B8 turnouts from C&L for the trailing crossover on the curve on the approach to the station.  I'm planning to build them in situ - but not until I've refitted all the Tortoise motors and refitted all the wiring!!  The plan is to curve the points.  I did consider Peco curved points, which were a pretty good fit, but having built some C&Ls already and liking the way they look, that is what I went for.

 

I'll chronicle my progress when I get started.

 

Rod

Probably a good call on the points. We've used a few of the Peco curvy ones and the clearances on the crossing vees seem much wider on them than the straight ones. Don't half make the wagons rock!

JF

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

I've been a bit quiet on here recently but I have nevertheless been getting some modelling done!   I've got another point working on the layout: it was a bit fiddly as I couldn't put the Tortoise motor directly underneath the tie bar as the new position was too close to the power sockets under the layout.  I've mounted it to one side and put a short above-board operating wire in.  How I'll disguise it, I'm not sure yet, but the main thing is, it works!!

 

My main work has been to finish the 2 motor bogies for the Class 115.

 

These are 2 general pics from below and above:

 

 

 

A couple of things to point out:  I've added a piece of wiring insulation to each cross piece that holds up the chain - for 2 reasons, really: 1) to ease the running, hoping that the chain on plastic with be smoother than on metal and also hoping that the insulation will revolve (although, in all honesty, I can't be sure that is happening) and 2) hopefully thereby to reduce the noise (such as it is).  On that subject, they really are pretty quiet anyway.

 

I've also added some pieces of lead sheet to even out the weight distribution and improve traction and pick-up.   It's pretty effective as the balance point is between the centre pivot plate and the rear of the 2 sets of copperclad to which the pickups are attached.

 

Sharp eyed readers may well notice that the red wire to the motors is on the same side on each bogie and, when on the model, the bogies will be facing in opposite directions so you would think  I'd need to swap the wires around.  Wrong!!!  I actually did swap the wires around and, facing in opposite directions, they ran in opposite directions!!  Why, I don't know, but wired as they are and back to back or nose to nose, they both go the same way.  It works, so I'm not going to investigate any further!!

 

Holding the motors upright was a bit of a challenge and I solved it in 2 slightly different ways.  I hope the photos below will show what I did:

 

 

 

In the top pic, the motor is held steady by an arrangement of scrap plasticard, whereas on the second, I've used a piece of plasticard and some thick copper wire.  The latter is glued under the bogie to stop it sliding around (the first pic shows it well, on the left hand bogie).  This wire is bent over the spacing bar in the gearbox and prevents both fore and aft motion.  I had it too tight at first, but slackened it off and the bogie now runs beautifully.

 

The 2 bogies together run at the same speeds on my rolling road and have been run in for a good couple of hours each.  Once on the track, under the unit, they will be really quiet.  2 ABC gearboxes and motors is a bit expensive but I'll feel the benefit when they are fitted to the unit and it's running round the layout.

 

So now it's back to the pointwork.  I'll post progress as I complete it.  I have to admit that working under the base board is not my favourite part of the job, but it needs to be done, so it will be done!!  More soon.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Just a short update.  I managed to test out the 115 bogies on the Club layout this week.

 

They ran superbly!!  It wasn't dead quiet in the clubroom, but all you could hear from them was the wheels clattering over pointwork - no noise from motor, gearbox or transmission (ie the delrin chain!!)  They've got a fair turn of speed, too - well above protoypical 70 mph but I'll be able to limit that with the chip.  They also ran very smoothly at very slow speed too.  The bars holding the chain up stayed in position after some 20 minutes continuous running in both directions, so all in all, I'm well chuffed!    Now it's all go for fitting to the power cars.

 

The pic shows the "test bed" I used:

 

 

It's a strip of scrap plywood with the bogies bolted on!!  I wrote "Class 115 bogies" on it to try and avoid bemused looks, stupid questions and daft comments from other club members - it didn't work!!!   Still, it made a change from unpainted brass locos also on test!!!

 

I picked up the high backed seats for the unit from Shawn and Richard at Leigh yesterday, so hopefully we can now crack on with it.

 

More soon.

 

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

A further short update.  I refitted the remaining 6 Tortoise motors today.  As I've said before, not my favourite job (getting under baseboards is a bit trying - not only because of my age but wearing varifocal glasses makes looking up difficult!!!  I did fit some of the motors after taking my glasses off!!) and the air got decidedly blue at times, but it's done.  I fitted 2 back to front and forgot to reverse the wiring, but that soon got sorted.  All tested and all work correctly.

 

There will be 4 more to fit - 2 to the catch points when I've built those and 2 to the points in the trailing crossover on the curve which I'll be starting in the not-too-distant future.

 

For now, though, I need to fit fishplates - both brass and insulated - and then refit the wiring to the track I've relaid.  Both jobs that I look forward to.

 

No pics - you've seen one Tortoise motor, you've seen 'em all! - but I'll be back at the end of the week with more progress.

 

Signing off with a big sigh of relief!!!

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Evening all!! (Yes, I remember Sergeant Dixon!!)

 

As promised - a progress report, but this time from one (very) happy bunny!!!   Why????   ..... because the new pointwork and associated track remodelling is complete (apart from the DMU stabling point of which more later).  

 

I fitted all the C&L plastic and brass fishplates where required - plastic fixed with superglue and the brass ones soldered on.  The brass ones I soldered to one rail end only, leaving the other end free to move with temperature variations.  As the fishplates fit in the web of the rail, they hold the rails in alignment OK.  But with the plastic ones I glued them to both rails!  Why??  Not a clue!!  I did the plastics first and just never thought of it: if they do come off, I'll reglue them just to one rail.  I wired up the frogs to the switches on the Tortoise motors - got caught out by the 2 I'd replaced back to front, but soon sorted!  I then soldered feeds to each section of rail and managed it without any short circuits.

 

Refitting the wiring wasn't too easy as the previous had been cut to fit the old point locations and, as the new pointwork has needed the point motors resiting, the wiring didn't always fit.  However, determination, gritted teeth and numerous cups of tea got me through it!!  I tested each piece of track with a multimeter and couldn't find any dead spots so I then had a test run over all the new pointwork and realigned track with my Heljan 37.  Perfect!!  [Well, apart from an odd shaped sand pipe that catches the track, but that will soon be sorted.]

 

There's the headshunt to the DMU stabling point to extend, the siding behind the platform to shorten slightly (for the buildings) and then the crossover on the curve to relay.  As the stabling point tracks will be in the way of that job, I'll leave finally fixing them down and wiring them until the cross over is finished.  Then the new track will need spraying, then I'll start to fit the signals.  Ballasting will happen after the signals.

 

First, though, I'm going to have a couple of days playing trains!!

 

No photos, I'm afraid,as there's really nothing obvious that's changed, or that I've not put on before.  I do, however, feel quite relieved that the layout is up and running again: it was beginning to get me down a bit, but it's done and I'm looking forward to having a bit of a play and then doing the crossover.

 

More soon.

 

Rod

 

EDit:  PS  There's still the 2 catch points to make and fit, too!!

Edited May 5, 2013 by Dmudriver

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

I'm pleased to say I did get a running session yesterday and really enjoyed it!  It took a while to get used to the signalling system again  I did wrongly route a couple of trains and ran through a couple of wrongly set points in the trailing direction but that's what happens when you've not run for a while!!  It reinforced the idea of interlocking the signals with the points eventually - so that I can't pull one off until the route is correctly set.  The interlocking will have to be electrical but it's not high on the "to do" list at the moment.

 

What is high on the list is replacing the trailing crossover on the curve.  2 or 3 vehicles regularly derail on it and others threaten to, so it has to go - and pretty soon!!  That will be before the signals are fitted - much as I want to get those onto the layout.

 

Here's a couple of pics of the layout during the running session- minus platform, unfortunately.  Firstly, the station area, with (left to right) Ivatt 2-6-2T with 3 coach "Welsh Dragon" push-pull set,  03 shunting a parcels rake, 3-car 108 in the far platform and the 33 with a rake of 4 Mark 1s ready to pull out and reverse into the other platform

 

 

Next, the fiddle yard, with (left to right), a 2-car 108, 50021 "Rodney" on a parcels rake (there's actually a 37 on the other end!) and a 128.

 

 

And finally a close up of the 33 in the siding:

 

 

I'm going to work out a sequence for the operation and I was even thinking of doing 2 - one for a fairly intensive passenger service only and one for a reduced passenger service and parcels.  But I'll have a couple more sessions before I firm up on those ideas.

 

I've also realised that I could keep another 2 operators busy and possibly 3 - but again, I'll run it a few more times first.

 

All in all a productive and enjoyable day - and now the weather's going to break!!!  So maybe it will be the time to replace the troublesome crossover (sounds like something out of Thomas the Tank Engine, doesn't it!!!).

 

More soon.

 

Rod

 

[Dmudriver]

Evening all.

 

I've been quite busy recently, but not on my own layout building!!  I'm helping a couple of lads set up a Scottish 0 gauge layout and I'm doing some track and electrical alterations on the Club's DCC layout.  Add to that, another lad at the Club and I are planning a new exhibition layout - he's building the boards and will do the scenery and I'll do the track and electrics - the plan is to use C&L track and for me to build the points (C&L, obviously!)

 

In the meantime, I've fixed the lights on a pal's Heljan 26 - only on end worked, the other was wired back to front!!  Then I've got hold of 2 x Loksound v4 XL decoders with SWD sound - for a 37 and a 31.  The 37 chip has gone in my Scottish liveried 37 (37039) and the 31 in my new Heljan 31.  

 

The problem I find with fitting chips to Heljan locos is working out the wiring - every model seems to use a different system and different coloured wires!!  On both of them I've wired the red lights separate from the white so that I can switch them off when I've got a train behind the loco.  Unfortunately, as I'm not used to the CVs on a v4, I haven't got them working yet.   I've got a pal who's got a computer system which can do it easily (he says!) - is it "Lokprogrammer"?

 

I've fitted 2 rectangular 8 ohm bass speakers to the 37 but the sound is too muffled so I'll replace one with a "regular" speaker.  I'm exhibiting at Manchester this weekend (Oldham King Street Parcels again) so I'll get a couple from Digitrains.  Any advice on the best combination of speakers would be welcomed.

 

The 37 was pretty straightforward - not so the 31!!  I fitted 2 smaller bass speakers in the roof and found they caught on one of the flywheels.  So I took the fan motor and circuit board out and fitted them in the centre of the roof and all was then OK.  They are 2 x 4 ohm speakers; they sound OK at home but I'm not sure how they'll sound in an exhibition hall.  This weekend will tell!!  Prior to that I'd found one of the motors was rising up when running in one direction and the flywheel was hitting the fan assembly - a not uncommon Heljan fault!  Tightening the screw in the clamp didn't work so I loosened the clamp off, took the motor out and wrapped a piece of masking tape round it.  I then refitted it and it stayed put.  Yeeeeees!!

 

I like to check all my electrical circuits (as far as I can) and I found that, although the loco ran on the track OK, one side of both bogies was not picking up properly.  I traced the fault to a tab which is screwed against the pickup wire - it wasn't making proper contact.

 

Then I had a couple of spare wires from each cab which I thought were the cab lighting wires, so I arranged them so that the rear cab would be illuminated in travel, not the driving cab - or I thought I did!!  The wires, it seems are for the lights behind the dials on the desks.  The cab light is a LED behind the headcode panel light.  I couldn't see how to remove them, so I've stuck some Blutack over them and that has cut the light off.  Same procedure with the red lights as on the 37 - again the CVs need setting to get them to work.

 

I've had the 31 weathered and here's a couple of pics of it:

 

 

 

I chose the number 31 300 as I've seen a picture of it still with the side steps unplated in 1978.  I've also found a picture of it in 1979 and by that time they'd been plated over!!  I didn't fancy filling in the steps and respraying so I kept them.  Buying this loco meant another had to go, so my first 37 (37 029) has been sold - partly to pay for it and partly because the layout can't take more locos.  Long term, I want a 25 in place of the 33, as the 25s are more readily associated with the North West, but the 33 will do for now.

 

So, that's my progress so far.  Comments or queries always welcome.

 

More soon.

 

Rod

 

PS    The second pic shows the C&L pointwork quite nicely - you can also see that I shortened one fishplate to get it to fit!!

[pwr]

Great job. That 31 looks the part. I hope I can do my own justice.

 

Paul R

[Dmudriver]

Evening all.

 

Not much progress on my layout since the last post, but next week is half term, so no Grandad duties, and I'll get some work done on it.

 

Just for a change, though, I'm looking for some advice/ideas.  I've spent a great weekend at the L&Y DCC Society's exhibition in Manchester, helping to run Oldham King Street Parcels.  We were lent, on the Sunday, a model of a 2-car Class 205 Thumper, in blue/grey, fitted with a Legomanbiffo sound chip.  Superb!!  I've always liked them since seeing and hearing one chugging away on the East Lancs Railway a few years ago.

 

Basically, I'm hooked - I want one!! I'd like, if I can, to have some sort of plausible reason for running one.

 

 So the question is:

 

Setting aside Rule 1 for the moment (I know I can always fall back on it!!), can anyone suggest a scenario whereby a Class 205 (2- or 3-car) unit might have found itself allocated for a spell of operation on Merseyside, specifically on the Wirral??????

 

I look forward to some suggestions!

 

Rod

 

 

 

 

[flyingsignalman]

Not knowing exactly what a class 205 Thumper looks like, you could always say it has come up for trials to replace the 3rd rail units on some lines.......

 

[marsa69]

Fleet shortage of 3rd rail units led BR to transfer a 205 to cover whilst urgent remedial/modification work was carried out to the 3rd rail stock,

 

Or,

 

BR were trialling the 205 prior to cascading them to the Wirral after replacing them on their Southern stomping ground. The rationale is that the units could work electrified and non-electrified routes on Merseyside giving better flexibility,

 

Cheers,

[David Siddall]

We were lent... a model of a 2-car Class 205 Thumper, in blue/grey, fitted with a Legomanbiffo sound chip.  Superb!!  Basically, I'm hooked - I want one!! I'd like, if I can, to have some sort of plausible reason for running one.

I think you'd be struggling for 'plausible' there Rod, but I agree they are superb models – I saw Brian Daniel's take on one at the Bristol show ;-)

 

I once built a 4-mil layout where I could swap the semaphore signalling from upper quadrant to lower depending on whether I wanted to run BR(M) or BR (W); I could also swap the signal box which was the only region-specific building. Providing your layout's infrastructure isn't too tied to a region/location you could run in BR(S) mode from time to time – you've got a 33 after all!

 

David

 

 

 

David