Seeking help with mill buildings

[SquireBev]

If I may draw your attention to the diagram below, it shows a pretty rough idea of what I'm going to have on the upper (town) level of my layout.

 

In an effort to come up with a proper idea of what's going in the mill yard, I've made a second, slightly more detailed and proportionate diagram of the mill yard itself and of a couple of the buildings so far. The plan is to scratchbuild them.

 

 

Main mill front and side elevations:

 

Loading dock front and side elevations:

 

Now, the questions I have are like this:

1. First of all, do the proportions look alright to people? I've pored over pictures of a lot of local mills to try and get the density of the windows right, and I think I've got it about spot on.
   
2. Does the general style look right? I've got a nagging feeling at the back of my mind that it looks a bit American, particularly the loading dock, but I can't put my finger on why this is.
   
3. What should the workshop/boiler house building actually be? I've no idea of what sort of buildings would be part of a mill complex, really. I was thinking along the lines of a lower building with the "sawtooth" style roof, but that leads on to the next question
   
4. Roofs. Flat or sloped? A sloping roof on the loading dock won't be a problem as it's square to the backscene, but as the other two buildings aren't, the geometry of it blows my mind a bit.
   

Any advice you can offer is greatly appreciated.

[Edwin_m]

I agree with you about the loading dock - possibly something to do with the arches? In the British climate we'd probably need doors, and swing doors would get in the way so my guess would be sliding. To do that you'd need narrower openings with more blank wall between them.

 

The general proportions look reasonable to me, but the devil is in the detail and I suspect mills varied quite a bit from place to place. So it's worth researching the surviving buildings in your chosen area and perhaps choosing a single one to replicate the style of, though you'll probably have to apply selective compression as some of these buildings were vast. Google or Bing satellite images provide an easy and safe way to view the roof - here are some mills, or possibly more like warehouses, a stone's throw from Mill Lane, which certainly don't look like the brick Lancashire cotton mills I will be needing for my layout!

 

The engine drove the machinery via rotating shafts, so I think the engine house should adjoin the main building.

[halfwit]

I'd agree that the proportions look ok and sliding doors would be more suitable for the loading dock. Could the boiler house be the office block perhaps?

Looking at the plan view I'd add a second set of gates on the l/h side - remember that large vehicles need to get in and out of the yard easily.

[DerekEm8]

The general window proportions look fine - but the loading bay don't look so good. I certainly don't remember any mills round here with arches like that.

Remember the incoming material was heavy be it cotton, wool or whatever and it had to be taken up from ground level up to the higher floors. Generally there were twin wooden doors on each floor with a hinged platform and a block and tackle on an overhead beam which was used to lift the goods to the relevant floor. These access doors were aligned vertically so that goods could delivered to more than one floor from the same vehicle.

Also as above the boiler house would be next to the mill - but the chimney could be away from it - in one case in Oldham on the opposite side of the road via a long flue.

[jamie92208]

The type of building varied depending on it's purpose and the type of goods being dealt with. As far as I know Cotton mills tended to be much more single process than woollen ones. In Lancashire there tended to be one trade in each town (A generalisation) with spinning mills in one valley and weaving sheds in another. In Yorkshire the Woollen mills tended to be much more vertically integrated with the weaving spinning and associated trades all on one site. The ridged roofs tended to provide north light. Spinning sheds tended to be single storey as the spinning frames were very large. The multi storey ones tended to be weaving mills. Boiler houses tended to be lower in height and have pitched roofs. What might be nice is an engine house and chimney where you could model one end with the chimney on the back scene. There is a very good preserved one at Ellenroad near Milnrow, junction 21 on the M62, see link I would agree with the earlier poster about hoist access to the top floors from the loading dock as very heavy loads would nbeed to be taken to the top floors.

 

Jamie

[SquireBev]

Thanks chaps, I'll think on what you've all said and have a fiddle around with the plans.

 

I've been to the Ellenroad engine house and would love to model it, but I suspect it's a bit grand for my abilities...

[Edwin_m]

The link I posted to the mills in Bradford shows one with a set of doors on each floor as suggested by Derek.

[SquireBev]

Yeah, the aerial view tool is pretty useful! Thanks

 

I was trying to use Google street view for the same purpose yesterday, but everything above ground floor level comes out distorted.

 

Found a good spot in Halifax - http://binged.it/Hx1V8a

[SquireBev]

Right, updated plans of the overall yard and of the loading dock. Let me know what you think.

 

 

[Edwin_m]

Openings on the loading dock still a tad big? I'd suggest they should be the same size as the ones above, so all the doors can be slid back at the same time.

[SquireBev]

Yeah, it does look better with the doors all the same size.

Right, now to start on the weaving shed.

[SquireBev]

Ok, drawn up some plans for the weaving shed. 15cm long, 6cm deep. Might make it more like 8cm deep though, we'll see.

 

 

Also decided to make a 3D model of what the whole complex will look like, to try and get my head round the shape of the sawtooth roof once the whole building has been cut corner-to-corner.

 

Would definitely have to paint the rest of the building onto the backscene, as it'd just look weird otherwise.

Also the brick wall - going to get rid of it and instead have the weaving shed jutting further out - wall of the building is the boundary of the site, rather than having a separate boundary wall on that stretch.

 

As before, your opinions, comments, suggestions please!

[cornamuse]

how about doing the rest if the building as 2D, mounted on card and glued to the backscene? give it a tiny bit more relief, and make sure you have a colour match with the rest of the buidings?

 

Andy

[SquireBev]

Has to be worth a try at least

[R A Watson]

Thanks chaps, I'll think on what you've all said and have a fiddle around with the plans.

 

I've been to the Ellenroad engine house and would love to model it, but I suspect it's a bit grand for my abilities...

 

it's not your abilities which hold you back it's your perception of your abilities!

 

Give it a try and surprise yourself and widen your abilities at the same time, you will only improve if you actually make mistakes and then realise how to correct them, but you have to make the mistakes first, give it a go a d show us what you can do.

[SquireBev]

I suppose that's true, but I'm still loath to try

[carl1962]

Just a small point and it prob won't help you any. Yorkshire was wool, Lancashire was cotton. All down to climate. Lancashire was too wet to spin wool. Or so I remember from school. Might be the other way round tho and Yorkshire was too wet. Haha

[jamie92208]

Just a small point and it prob won't help you any. Yorkshire was wool, Lancashire was cotton. All down to climate. Lancashire was too wet to spin wool. Or so I remember from school. Might be the other way round tho and Yorkshire was too wet. Haha

 

That makes sense. From what I can remember from O level Geography (more than 40 years ago) average rainfall east of the pennines is less than half of that to the west.

 

However there were a few cotton mills in Yorkshire. Where I grew up at Settle the 4 mills on the Ribble (2 of which were still going when I moved there in 1959) were all cotton mills feeding to Lancashire. However 4 miles along the A65 at Long Preston the wool trade was in evidence with a wool sorting warehoue. Received raw wool in bales from Liverpool and Manchseter docks,via the station then sorted it and sent it out by road to the Bradford area. It's now Magna Print books. There were also other minor trades from the woollen industry such as burling and mending in Settle and Hellifield.

 

Jamie

[SquireBev]

Think I've got it sorted. Just need to find a source of windows and then alter the plans to suit their dimensions.

[SquireBev]

Well, it's taking shape.

 

[SquireBev]

The basic shape is done, but I can't proceed til I get some more Slaters stonework.

[SquireBev]

So instead, I can decide on a font for my sign. Opinions please:

 

[R A Watson]

First question is the sign a part of the masonry of the building? ie cast into the walls, if so when was the building constructed as it will be of the popular font of the day.

 

If not

 

Second question is the sign fixed to or painted on the wall? if painted has it been there a long time and when was it originally done, as it may well be faded and will reflect the ideas of that date not the date of the building.

 

There is a distinct time defined corelation of styles of this sort of feature. what was considered modern then will not be in favour today!

 

Sorry to add to your problems but this is the sort of research that comes from this sort of project and, to my mind at least, adds to the fascination of this branch of modelling.

[SquireBev]

The idea is for the name to be on a long wooden board and for the sign to have gone up sometime during the 1950s.

As the layout is set in vaguely 1961 the paint may be peeling a bit.