Philip Jackson Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Hi All I've finally found a place where I can set up a layout after a few years of having stuff in boxes. I'm thinking about a depot scene with a short running loop for my sons thomas engine to whizz around on. Do either systems support running a DC engine? I'd be grateful to hear of any personal experiences with either systems. Thanks Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Depot Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Phil I looked at the Bachmann one when i was looking at DCC, in the end a number of people recommended the NCE Power cab and I have found for my small depot layout its ideal. Have no idea regards continuing to run a DC loco mind... good luck cheers Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ian Posted October 13, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2009 The Dynamis will not run a DC loco but the Elite will. TBH running a DC engine on DCC isn't a good idea. You can get away with the occasional test run around the main line, but leaving it on the track for a whole operating session won't do the loco any good. My advice would be to only use DCC equipped locos - convert sufficient locos to cover your minimum needs and then convert others as time and funds permit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Just to add to what Ian says.... Running DC-only (non-fitted) locos on a DCC powered layout is not a good idea. Most DCC systems do not have this feature, which normally only appears on older designs. IMHO it was put there as a sop to lure people over in the early days. Quite why Hornby felt they had to include it, I don't know; especially as the Elite operating manual warns against using this feature.... It is possible but not recommended that a locomotive that is not fitted with a decoder (analogue) can be operated on a digital layout. This locomotive is given the address ???0???.....When an analogue locomotive is placed on the tracks it will emit a high pitched noise when stationary which will become louder when running ??“ this is normal! . They don't mention that if left on the layout for any length of time, the motor in the analogue loco is quite likely to burn out. I'm sure your son won't be too pleased if he see's Thomas smoldering his way to an early demise, right before his very eyes. Note the Dynamis and PowerCab sensibly don't allow running analogue locos on address "0" . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan McCormick Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Hi My pick from both mentioned would be Dynamis but that is just my opinion. I would not run any locos DC locos on DCC as pointed out by Ron. Can I suggest lots of research on the subject before you spend your money on a controller you may not like in 3 months time. Here is a good starting point and you dont have to buy from here but the info and help is excellent. Ten Steps Towards A Great DCC Decision http://www.dccconcepts.com/index_files/DCCtenstepsdecision.htm Which "controller" brands do we like, what are our ???likes and dislikes??? about the brands??¦. and why? http://www.dccconcepts.com/index_files/DCCbrandecisions.htm It really is a good place to start. Cheers Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmg Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Those are some great links. And I liked the conclusions. Here??™s my take on the Elite and Dynamis. They are very different both in appearance and functionality. The Elite is a tethered system, meaning that the controller is wired to the track. It??™s not recommended to walk about with it. The Dynamis is primarily a handset that communicates to a base station (which connects to the track). It communicates via infra red which can give problems in some cases. For example under some fluorescent lighting conditions. The Elite has far more programming ability and can both read and write CV??™s. Currently you can download software updates free of charge from Hornby. My son much prefers the Dynamis. Speed is changed via a joystick as are selecting locos. Direction control is via simple buttons and sound function selection is generally a one stop action. It really is very easy to use. It feels modern and has an xbox or Play Station familiarity especially for children. Although it feels old and clunky I actually prefer the Elite except it is a pain to use with sound. It has 2 nice large control knobs and I can??™t loose it. But which would I advise you to buy now? Neither. Take a trip to a specialist retailer with your son. Do a road test of controllers. You??™ll both have fun and learn lots. If I were buying now I think I would still have a Dynamis for my son (he loves it) but I would have something different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 ..... Note the Dynamis and PowerCab sensibly don't allow running analogue locos on address "0" Though also note that systems without address 0 capability will still smoke a DC loco just as effectively as those with address 0 ! The difference is that you can't run the loco on the newer systems before the motor expires..... Neither case is recommended. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Though also note that systems without address 0 capability will still smoke a DC loco just as effectively as those with address 0 ! ..... Neither case is recommended. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Most DCC systems do not have this feature, which normally only appears on older designs. IMHO it was put there as a sop to lure people over in the early days. Quite why Hornby felt they had to include it, I don't know; especially as the Elite operating manual warns against using this feature.... For most people buying DCC from Hornby it still is 'early days' which is probably why Hornby included it, plus their design seems to follow Lenz in other aspects anyway. There two systems are very different in what they can do and how you use them, both have good and bad points. Its worth finding a model show that can show you them in detail or downloading the specs on each and seeing what you like. Wireless handset vs control desk decent function buttons vs a bit of a faff no reading cv's without pro box vs good cv read modes etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 009matt Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 If it is for purely home use, I would go with dynamis, however if you are exhibiting, use a tethered or r/c system as the dynamis has caused me no end of trouble with reflections and interference. I have only used the cheaper Hornby dcc controller which was OK but had its limitations, I now use a gaugemaster prodigy which I picked up for ??100 matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 For most people buying DCC from Hornby it still is 'early days' which is probably why Hornby included it..... .....included it and then recommending it isn't used! A trifle bizzare perhaps? They even warned against using the feature in their forum. I can only guess that they thought it ought to be included when planning the spec., but subsequently found out it was a bad move when it was too late? Back to the OP. Here's a link to a Bachmann video featuring the basic Dynamis. It's in Germanese (for those with smartly pressed trousers) but the pictures are pretty. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 .....included it and then recommending it isn't used! A trifle bizzare perhaps? They even warned against using the feature in their forum. I can only guess that they thought it ought to be included when planning the spec., but subsequently found out it was a bad move when it was too late? Probably got a few complaints about melting things after Select was release and modified the manual for the Elite and posted to the forum. "Well we did say we don't recommend it" can now be used when people phone up to tell them their Wrenn melted itself . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poindexter Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I have an Elite. No probs so far. Used it with Bachmann, Hornby, ESU and TCS decoders. Selecting sound functions can be a pain, but it's nice to be able to control two locos at the same time without having to toggle between them. My big problem is it's tethered and I have a large twin track roundy that's hard to use properly with the Elite so I probably need some kind of remote hand set for it. I don't fancy using a select for this purpose, so I'm stuck till something compatible comes out. If I had to buy a contoller I probably would go NCE then upgrade it to powerpro? spec when I had the money. The NCE feels workman like when you hold it, like it was designed for the user rather than thrown together. Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDMJ Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Having played with the Dynamis, I'd give it a very wide berth for my own systems. Loco selection is by the same joystick as loco speed and it's far too easy to knock the stick sideways to another locomotive, get into a situation where you need to make a change and realise all too late that you're no longer controlling the loco you thought you were. In the expression, "don't touch with a bargepole', the longer the bargepole, the better, IMHO! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahill Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 i would personally go with something like the gaugemaster prodigy, the elite feels cheap and too bulky and the dynamis is a bit annoying if you turn your back to the base unit forgetting its wireless. i think only the ez command supports 1 dc engine, the ez command is a good controller if you dont have a lot of locos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Kendall Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 ...trouble with reflections and interference... Hello Matt, Firstly, It was nice to see you in Wickham a couple of weeks ago Right, now down to task - I've got both a Dynamis & a Prodigy (because I'm greedy! ) And have just managed to run SQP under DCC. I was considering taking the Dynamis down to Weymouth, but can you elaborate on the statement above about the Dynamis - Causes & Resolution etc - and what you've done to overcome them (OK - otehr than buy the Prodigy! ) Having played with the Dynamis, I'd give it a very wide berth for my own systems. Loco selection is by the same joystick as loco speed and it's far too easy to knock the stick sideways to another locomotive, get into a situation where you need to make a change and realise all too late that you're no longer controlling the loco you thought you were. In the expression, "don't touch with a bargepole', the longer the bargepole, the better, IMHO! Haven't you heard of "being adventurous" John??? I always found that half the "fun" of DCC in my first few months of having DCC was the "panic" factor as you realise you've just set your two voyagers running up and down on the same line!!! thankfully the "all stop" button works very well!! Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDMJ Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Haven't you heard of "being adventurous" John??? How do you think I discovered the problem? I was trying to run 3 trains round 009Matt's East Hants Light Railway. Don't think even Matt's tried to be that adventurous yet! When you're in a panic coz the train you think you're controlling isn't, there's not much space on that layout other than to hit the all-stop! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Stone Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I use an Elite. A little bit of button pushing at times but I find it quite okay. Had no issues with any decoder, even the early Hornby ones. 3.5amp which is useful too! Cheers, Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the fuzzler Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I had a NCE Power cab which died after very little use, and went and bought an elite. Cant grumble too much with it, altough function controls can be awkward. It is a little slower than the powercab to read Cvs, but the power cab never felt "right" in my hands, and I thought I had big hands. Also, my powercab and another one at a club running day got my Hornby sound 60 in a terrible state. It works fine with the elite !!Had a go with the dynamis. Didnt like the flimsy feeling controller, the fact that it needed batteries (always sure to go when you need it) and found the display hard to read. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted October 22, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 22, 2009 Funny how opinions change, this topic (Elite vs Dynamis) has been chewed over many times and in the early days most people came down on the side of the Dynamis. Now opinion seems to be more evenly divided the biggest differences being Elite is tethered but Dynamis is mobile and Elite has better programming facilities, it is a matter of choice and what suits you best. The Dynamis system now has the pro box which makes it more versatile and expensive. Talking to Simon Kohler recently he said that the IR hand controller was abandoned because of technical problems, however they are developing an Elite hand held for want of a better term which will release the tether but probably still have an umbilical connection to the main Elite, this is just a guess though. Hornby are apparently developing some 'Exciting' downloads according to SK. At present the Elite downloads are free. I have an Elite and the methodical rather than intuitive style of control suits me fine. I would love to buy a Lenz 90 or 100 but cannot afford it at present. The good thing is that there is a multitude of systems on the market and there will be one that suits you, so have some fun and go try some Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 being Elite is tethered but Dynamis is mobile and Elite has better programming facilities, The Elite also has two throttle knobs, the Dynamis only one. Saves a lot of button pushing to select and run two locos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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