NSE Coaches

[kimitrain]

Is there any possibilty that Dapol will make NSE coaches in N Gauge?

[Revolution Mike]

Unless they are going to compete with Farish on Mk1s and Mk2s I would have thought it unlikely.

 

Even more unlikely given that Farish have only recently bought out new Mk1s with new Mk2s due in the next 12 months, though of course nothing in NSE.

 

Cheers, Mike

[ThaneofFife]

But Dapol brought out the Mk3 and Farish have been making those for years although with the latest retool it might put Dapol off looking at the Mk1 now.

 

If they were to add Mk1s to the range no doubt they could get one up on Farish with coach interior light bar capability but other than that it would have to be a big step up in quality and detail over the new Farish version and Im not sure how much demand there is for N gauge rolling stock to have interior lighting - it may not be such a big draw for people to swap from Farish.

[justin1985]

I really don't think it would be sensible for Dapol to try and compete on BR Mk1's and Mk2 coaches. The Mk3s were a bit of a special case, where there was no sign of Farish upgrading their geriatric model (i.e. there was no Mk3 in the Bachmann OO range). However the new Farish Mk1 is pretty much "definitive", as I imagine, will be the Mk2z / Mk2a coaches which are due this year. Lighting is perhaps a minor issue - Farish could easily add pickups and a recess for a lighting bar if they saw fit, but I think its not yet really "mainstream" enough for them to bother.

 

Mk2 d/e/f air cons are, however, a different matter, as there is no Branchline OO model, and the Farish model is again geriatric. However, only one or two of these appeared in NSE livery!

 

I agree that it is a bit of a shame that things have played out this way, as Bachmann's large batches and conservatism when it comes to liveries means that the vast majority of the exciting liveries which Mk1 and Mk2 coaches have worn over the years either won't be produced, or at least not for some time! Perhaps time for someone to commission some limited editions?

[Karhedron]

I wonder about that. Models like the NSE liveried 159s were notorious for ending up int he bargain bin but that was some years ago. IIRC the Dapol NSE bubble cars seem to have sold as well as other liveries so perhaps sectorisation is starting to gain in popularity. Also the various Sprinters seem to have been most popular in RR livery. We can but hope that sectorisation will become more popular in the same way that Banger Blue is now.

[DapolDave]

NSE bubble cars sold well? Nope

NSE Class 86401 sold well? Nope

NSE Class 73 s sold well? Nope

 

Are we seeing a pattern here? ;-)

 

Well at least I'm happy we gave NSE a chance.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Karhedron]

Well at least I'm happy we gave NSE a chance.

Thanks for correcting me Dave. I am also grateful that you took the chance, sorry it did not pan out. Just out of curiosity, how have your other "sectorisation era" models sold (RR 153s and 156s, IC 86s and HSTs)?

[kintbury jon]

That's fair enough, though I would say that 86401 was a bit of an oddball in the first place. Out of interest, how many NSE DMU's, 86401's and NSE 73's were made?

[DapolDave]

Hi chaps,

 

Sorry I cannot/won't name figures, but I will say that the 86 and bubble were made in reduced numbers compared to 2-3 years ago production numbers.

 

Cheers

Dave

[kintbury jon]

Understood, I do wonder whether NSE has had its time as standard release models. It's a livery I love and I have plenty of (OO) NSE items but is it getting less popular as the years pass?

[Adam1701D]

Possibly one of the big issues with Network SouthEast is that many of the routes were both electrified and very heavy on multiple-units, both of which still seem to be a turn-off with many modellers. There is a small but growing core of fans in N Gauge but probably not enough to justify the huge costs of producing runs of coaches - just yet, anyway!

 

I'd love to see more RTR stock in NSE - despite the drop in vinyl sales but it could be a little way off yet.

[Karhedron]

Possibly one of the big issues with Network SouthEast is that many of the routes were both electrified and very heavy on multiple-units, both of which still seem to be a turn-off with many modellers.

Never a turn-off for me, I just found it too hard to model as there are very few MUs RTR. Back when I was modelling in 00 gauge, the only NSE multiple units were the Lima 117/121. If you wanted any EMUs of any sort, the only option was kit-building. I managed to make a few MTK EMUs but by the time I had I was ready to go to University and the layout I planned to run them on had not progressed beyond the bare track stage.

 

These days things are looking up slightly with the offerings from Bachmann, RTP catenary from Dapol but there is still a long way to go. The only Mk3 suburban EMU are the Bratchell offerings. While they do fill a niche, they are overpriced and underdetailed compared to the mainstream RTR offerings.

 

It is a chicken-and-egg scenario. People do not model NSE because of the lack of MUs and manufacturers do not produce suburban multiple units because people do not model them. Catch 22.

 

Regional railways in the same period is a much easier proposition because there were many more 2-car units and loco-hauled trains were much shorter out in the provinces. I still hope that NSE will have its day in the sun but until then I shall stick to N gauge GWR.

 

Any chance of a Castle and some Hawksworth coaches Dave?

[Paul B]

Quite an interesting thread this.

 

My modelling zone is squarely set in the NSE era and whilst it frustrates me that a greater amount of RTR items aren't/haven't been available I'm not entirely suprised it's difficult subject matter for the manufacturers.

 

Personally I totally agree it is chicken and egg as you need some fairly brave product decisions to provide the catalyst for more modellers to start considering the prototype in general.

 

Karhedron, you sum this up perfectly in terms of the availability of MUs in RTR. The bulk of the Southeast's stock was/is third rail emu's with other NSE realted stock, 50's, 47's and related coaching stock more limited in terms of where you would see it.

 

I think it was good that Dapol have tested the water on a number of occassions but without a selection of EMU's, around which to model a wider theme, there is always going to be limited take up of any NSE stock. More importantly because of MU factor it will take a brave decision from one of the manufcaturers to start prodcuing a wider selection of MU's - look how long it has taken to get just one on the market!

 

For now I'll be saving the pennies and turning to more specialist providers to cover my needs for NSE stock - it's eye wateringly expensive at times and I fully appreciate out of the reach of most but at least the likes of CJM and Mercig can turn out NSE liveried locos and coaches in the case of CJM. Thankfully Adam produces a great variety of Vinyls for NSE which at least mean those of us who are willing to turn our hand to a bit of braso/quickies stripping can create perfectly adequate coaches.

 

I can't help thinking though that a loco like the Class 50, which was heavily reliveried in two NSE schemes, that if it was updated might just provide enough support for a run of RTR NSE liveried coaches - that I guess is going to be a decision for Bachmann given their recently announced Mk2 stock.

[Tequila Sunrise]

Frankly, I don't see NSE as a goer in N gauge. I thought about it once, but there are so many missing pieces. You would have to be very careful about your choice of location.

 

It seems a better prospect in 4mm scale, as lots more is available - either new or secondhand. I get a feeling that new NSE stock hangs around in this scale too though - like the NSE Bachmann EMU Class 416 collectors club special which hasn't sold out yet and various NSE coaches being sold by box-shifters at low prices.

[kimitrain]

Thanks for all these comments. Thanks to Dapol Dave who added his comments too. I understand they have to make items that make money rather than items that we idervidualy would like. I did buy a NSE bubble car and the NSE 86 happy days.

[Mike W]

The title of this topic is NSE coaches; as Paul B has mentioned, you can do your own Mk1 & Mk2 coaches relatively easily.

 

To elaborate, Electra Railway Graphics (http://www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk/) do overlays for Farish Mk2s and the older tooled Mk1s. After taking the coaches apart, Brasso will get rid of the factory paintwork and then the overlays just stick on. Happy times!

 

To get more advanced, you can then start detailing the coaches and that's where the fun starts (for me anyway!). A brief list of detailing parts I've used is below.

 

Mk1

Ultima make detailed underframe kits (or, if flush, you could cannibalise some new Blue Riband mk1 underframes)

Ultima also sell commonwealth bogies, which slightly close the massive coupling gap

If using Farish bogies, N Brass sell some coupling modifiers which close the gap (there are other alternatives too!)

TPM sell gangway rubbing plates

 

You can also use some of these detaling parts and the Electra overlays to produce NSE EMUs based on Farish Mk1s; BH Enterprises will sell you all the cab ends and underframe parts seperately. They go to several shows a year.

 

Mk2

NSE coaches are earlier mk2 a/b coaches, Farish only do later air con equipped coaches

Ian Stoate sells underframe replacements for earlier Mk2 coaches; alternatively, you can alter the Farish underframe yourself with a razor saw

Ultima sell BR coach air vents which can be used in the rooves (sandpaper will get rid of the air con details on the rooves first)

TPM sell gangway rubbing plates

BR Lines sell Mk2 coach interiors

 

After doing numerous NSE coaches in N gauge, I can highly recommend having a go. The end result can be something which won't look out of place when used with a modern 'blue riband' loco.

[Paul B]

After doing numerous NSE coaches in N gauge, I can highly recommend having a go. The end result can be something which won't look out of place when used with a modern 'blue riband' loco.

 

Mike W - good summary of the various bits and bobs that you can lay your hands on to put together some very respectable Mk1 or Mk2 coaches.

 

 

 

Above should be an example of what can quickly be achieved with Electra's vinyls.

 

This Mk2 was prepared using a stripped brand new Farish Mk2 bought for about £8 and the overlay which when bought for a rake of say coaches works out at less than £5 a coach.

 

This one was done really quickly to see what could be achieved with Electra's overlays and is still very respectable in my view and not at all difficult to do.

[kimitrain]

Thanks for that. I will have a go.

Thanks

[justin1985]

It seems a better prospect in 4mm scale, as lots more is available - either new or secondhand. I get a feeling that new NSE stock hangs around in this scale too though - like the NSE Bachmann EMU Class 416 collectors club special which hasn't sold out yet and various NSE coaches being sold by box-shifters at low prices.

 

I'd personally say that NSE in 4mm is far less likely to be a goer, because when we're dealing with 4, 8 or 12 coach MU trains for the majority of services, very few people will have the space to make it look realistic, or do anything but shuttle them in and out of a hidden siding into a terminus. In N, however, all those lovely bright trains can glide by in the landscape!

 

Regarding the previous Dapol releases, I wouldn't have thought any of those so far can be regarded as that representative? The cl.73s were released in such large numbers that they flooded the market, with only the ultra-collectable Pullman livery examples selling "really well". The NSE cl.86 was a real odd-ball (with no matching coaches). However, I had got the impression that both the cl.86 and the cl.121 had sold at least reasonably well - you don't see many hanging around (as you do Farish 66s in the Bardon livery etc) and neither have been aggressively discounted by the box-shifters (whose stock is getting low).

 

I've bought an NSE cl.73, and a cl.121, but haven't taken the plunge on the cl.86 (it would be number three, after 86s in Intercity Swallow and Virgin) as its just a bit too esoteric. Still waiting for that Anglia cl.86 though Dave!

[TomJ]

Thanks for the advice on how to produce NSE coaches - that one looks very good indeed. Knowing my luck I'll finish a rake and then a rtr range will be launched! Will keep my eye out for cheap Farish mk2 coaches.

 

I wonder if part of the problem is that its a relatively short lived livery (mid 80s to mid 90s), with the loco-hauled coaches being mostly even shorter lived. And uptill now modelling EMUs has been very much a niche interest. Not upto date for those who want to model the current scene but not quite as retro to get the nostalgia thing like blue/grey? I rather like the livery and would like a few coaches to brighten up the blue/grey and add a bit of colour.

[rob D2]

Off topic slightly, but I am surprised NSE isn't becoming more favoured now- those who were teenagers then wil be mid -late 30s now and possibly in the zone of returning to models/ more disposable income.

Hope bachmanns emu experiments in 4mm worked sales wise, so we may see some more 3rd rail

[grahame]

 

Possibly one of the big issues with Network SouthEast is that many of the routes were both electrified and very heavy on multiple-units,

 

 

Yep, and, of course, none of the three items that Dave mentioned were an EMU.

 

Worse is the dumbing down of modelling aspiration these days. Many see a third rail or catenery as something 'too difficult' for them, and won't have a go at doing some real modelling - hence the recent comments by Dennis Lovett (from Bachmann in the Railway Modeller) about people not even attempting to bother to re-number a locomotive, and the increase in people whittering away about wanting the manufacturers to provide them a locomotive in a certain livery and with xx number on it despite that particular class of locomotive already being available as a very good model.

 

Now how am I going to go about re-painting that new Desiro in to SWT livery?

 

G.

[grahame]

Mike W - good summary of the various bits and bobs that you can lay your hands on to put together some very respectable Mk1 or Mk2 coaches.

 

 

Above should be an example of what can quickly be achieved with Electra's vinyls.

 

 

Snap;

 

[Karhedron]

Off topic slightly, but I am surprised NSE isn't becoming more favoured now- those who were teenagers then wil be mid -late 30s now and possibly in the zone of returning to models/ more disposable income.

I would have hoped so too (I fall into that demographic, apart from the disposable income bit) but so far there does not seem to be much sign of it. Is it just that most of the railways on NSE were either very heavily used or (in the case of minor routes) saw operation by usually just one or two classes of multiple unit?

 

Regional Railways (same era, different location) seems very popular. Does it just boil down to how easy it is to model densely served areas?

[Paul B]

Off topic slightly, but I am surprised NSE isn't becoming more favoured now- those who were teenagers then wil be mid -late 30s now and possibly in the zone of returning to models/ more disposable income.

Hope bachmanns emu experiments in 4mm worked sales wise, so we may see some more 3rd rail

 

I fall squarely in this category - although I've never totally 'left' the hobby. I grew up in the southeast and the bright livery was very fresh at the time and has I guess stayed with me.

 

I'm hoping some of the 4mm models make it down to N too. More variety is needed to truely test whether the market has the appetite but it is chicken and egg.