kandc_au Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Nah! BUT Toplights, Toplights and Toplights in all sizes would be a worthy lot. Khris ps: Did I mention Toplights........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Nah! BUT Toplights, Toplights and Toplights in all sizes would be a worthy lot. Khris ps: Did I mention Toplights........ I am not convinced it is going to happen in rtr. I have been building Geen, Mallard and Charlton toplights for some time as I believe it is the only way I will ever be able to run them. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I am not convinced it is going to happen in rtr. I have been building Geen, Mallard and Charlton toplights for some time as I believe it is the only way I will ever be able to run them. Mike Wiltshire I would agree - as we have both mentioned, there are so many variations of Toplights (both in original build and in ongoing modification) that a manufacturer would have to be very courageous (or foolish) to take them on. The 57' Collett bow-ended stock is a much simpler proposition. Including the K38 and the H33, I get 10 variants for them if the D94s were produced in right- and left-handed variants (D95rh, D95lh, D94rh, D94lh, E127rh, E127lh, E128, C54, K38, H33). Are there any others? Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I would agree - as we have both mentioned, there are so many variations of Toplights (both in original build and in ongoing modification) that a manufacturer would have to be very courageous (or foolish) to take them on. The 57' Collett bow-ended stock is a much simpler proposition. Including the K38 and the H33, I get 10 variants for them if the D94s were produced in right- and left-handed variants (D95rh, D95lh, D94rh, D94lh, E127rh, E127lh, E128, C54, K38, H33). Are there any others? Adrian Only the artics really which were drawn up at the same time and used common parts etc as BSL found out when he tooled them up in the 1970's. Even then they are nothing more than shorthened South Wales stock. Before I located a full BSL set and Hammond sides, I produced and artic 3rd triplet by shortening Comet South Wales 3rds/Brake thirds. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Only the artics really which were drawn up at the same time and used common parts etc as BSL found out when he tooled them up in the 1970's. Even then they are nothing more than shorthened South Wales stock. Before I located a full BSL set and Hammond sides, I produced and artic 3rd triplet by shortening Comet South Wales 3rds/Brake thirds. Mike Wiltshire Hmm... I'm still contemplating doing a cut and shut restaurant set out of about six Hornby H33s... The issue with the artics is that they tend to be on inconvenient-length underframes, both in their artic form and in their rebuilt solo form - although the A19 van first is sufficiently close that I built a representation with Hammond sides on a Hornby coach: Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I would agree - as we have both mentioned, there are so many variations of Toplights (both in original build and in ongoing modification) that a manufacturer would have to be very courageous (or foolish) to take them on. The same argument could be made for Gresley Corridor stock. There were a very large number of variations but that hasn't stopped a small slection of themn being comnmercial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Hmm... I'm still contemplating doing a cut and shut restaurant set out of about six Hornby H33s... Adrian A19 looks good. I produced the first twins artic by cut and shut the hammond sides. He also produced the artic version but messed up and missed out the three lav windows. Cut and shut was easier than cutting in three matching windows.Initially I only went down the cut and shut route because I could not track down the BSL sets. They were a private/special order only and never appeared in the BSL range lists(along with LNER and LMS 'specials'). It was only when Ron Coleman died, two complete sets became available. Personally, if I was starting now, I would just order the Worsley works sides http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_GWR.htm I appreciate that £76 sounds a lot for a three coach set but you do get ends and floor as well as sides for your money, and the kitchen car windows are right. There is a missing window on the BSL. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 If folk are so keen to have 'Rivieras' stock, 1920's colletts and Toplight coaches, they can have them tomorrow. There are plenty of kits out there! When I see cries for RTR coaches, I naturally look at the market with my commercial hat on. If I were producing GWR coaches I would go for the 9ft wide late 1920s stock and etch a few 9ft 7ins wide ends and wider floors for those wanting 'Riviera' coaches. The plastic RTR folk dont operate like that and would be better off producing the coaches with the maximum sales potential, ie: the 9ft general service range. They all featured recessed door handles regardless of width and most had a flat guards door. Later 'narrow' versions had flat ends instead of bow ends and it is a bit of a minefield as might be expected when it comes to GWR coaching stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welsh Yorkie Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I am not convinced it is going to happen in rtr. I have been building Geen, Mallard and Charlton toplights for some time as I believe it is the only way I will ever be able to run them. Mike Wiltshire I agree, but Slaters as well. I can't see 70' stock coming out either, the 57' and 60's would provide bigger markets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 http://www.worsleywo...4mm/4mm_GWR.htm I appreciate that £76 sounds a lot for a three coach set but you do get ends and floor as well as sides for your money, and the kitchen car windows are right. There is a missing window on the BSL. Mike Wiltshire Thanks for that link. I didn't know about them. There is also another link I will also chase up a few messages above. Coachman, I would agree, if I could get responses particularly from one supplier! With the link Mike has posted I may well be on my way. Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I am not convinced it is going to happen in rtr. I have been building Geen, Mallard and Charlton toplights for some time as I believe it is the only way I will ever be able to run them. Mike Wiltshire Mike, Is there a site for the Charlton Toplights please? Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Trevor Charlton ceased trading some years ago as far as I am aware. His zink etchings were top notch for lining out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Thank you Larry. Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary hill Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I don't have any use for further Cornish Riviera Centenary stock on my planned secondary mainline, as I already have one for my cascaded/scratch coach rake. I was researching the antiquity of the various Bachmann and Hornby GWR(WR) RTR coaches - excluding the excellent recent Hawksworths: Hornby "Colletts" - 1977/78 Airfix/Mainline/Hornby "B set Coach" - 1977 Airfix/Mainline/Hornby Auto-Trailer - 1978 Airfix/Mainline/Hornby Centenaries - 1980 Mainline/Bachman Colletts - 1983 I knew they were "old" but ......Surely something newer than 29 years old is more than well overdue. I wish a brave manufacturer would examine something like the Comet product list, as I have just done. They would find about 15 GWR Coach Diagrams where 50 or more examples were built(highest 243). The K40 full brake (49 built) just misses out but I'd bend the "rules" Surely it is possible to choose 4 or 5 examples with some sort of loose family resemblance to at least make a start towards enabling a modeller to represent the slightly "rag-bag" appearance a typical GWR(WR) rake? PS - I have built a handful of Comet coaches in case anyone thinks I am totally lazy and just want to open boxes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I wish a brave manufacturer would examine something like the Comet product list, as I have just done. Be careful what you wish for.....A brave manufacturer might examine your job one day.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Dave - good point re the K40 Full Brake.... bearing in mind Hornby's fine Hawksworth BG represents (I think) the K45, of which only twenty were ever built. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary hill Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Be careful what you wish for.....A brave manufacturer might examine your job one day.... They already have .... or at least an aggressive asset stripping venture capital group bought us and closed us down PDQ once they had what they wanted . But just to clarify my point, I could have equally said examine the Harris or Russell books to discover the most populous GWR coach diagrams - I just had the Comet numbers to hand. I don't think Comet need to worry anyway, as I think the Hawksworths might have been the GWR/WR's "turn" for new RTR coaches for the next few years, although I hope to be proved wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Trevor Charlton ceased trading some years ago as far as I am aware. His zink etchings were top notch for lining out. I agree. I do not think he produces any more. He used the letter press zinc plates process to produce the sides. As most print is now direct to plate, the old process houses closed as they were no longer required, Trevor would have an issue to continue to get them made at a reasonable cost. They were always quite expensive compared to brass but they were produced on an individual basis and what a list. Many rare clerestories/toplights that no one else would touch. I would buy them as I could afford and collected quite a stock. Only a D46 and L14 left untouched now. I suspect (I do not know for sure, conformation required) that he died in October 2009. Like my father (who died last week)he was a pro musician with modeling as a hobby. I had been told through the music world, at yet another funeral, that he was no longer around. I did find an obituary on one of the Birmingham theatre sites some time back, covering his death. On a happier nore, one existing supplier I forgot to include (and Steve is a good friend -sorry Steve) is Frogmore Confederacy. He makes some rare ones including a paneled full brake. Watch the D56 and D46 (latter no longer listed) as they have errors. The E82,G55, K19 & K36 are fine and can be used on Slaters bodies if you do not want to solder up the rest. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Regarding your late father, please accept my condolences coach bogie. As you have probably noticed, a feature of Charltons etched zink sides was the rounded edges on the raised panelling. This allowed one to put the lining on the edge prototype fashion. Etched brass or nickel silver raised panelling has a sharp edge. I don't know how Trever had the patience to manually cut out the windows though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Regarding your late father, please accept my condolences coach bogie. As you have probably noticed, a feature of Charltons etched zink sides was the rounded edges on the raised panelling. This allowed one to put the lining on the edge prototype fashion. Etched brass or nickel silver raised panelling has a sharp edge. I don't know how Trever had the patience to manually cut out the windows though! Thanks for you r thoughts larry. Really appreciated. My dad lived up the road from you in Deganwy. We had just manged to move him, my mother and a lifetime of modelling back to Manchester when he died. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium OnTheBranchline Posted July 4, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 4, 2013 Which Cornish Riviera coaches? There were special sets made on more than one occasion. If you mean the Centenary sets (as modelled by Airfix/Dapol/Hornby), there are several potential issues. First, there were 7 different diagrams of coach in the nominal 10-car sets (left-hand van third, third, dining car third, restaurant first, compo, right-hand van third, brake compo), and only 26 coaches were built (they made two sets plus some spares), Second, the windows were changed to have sliding ventilators three years into their lives (built 1935, rebuilt 1938), Airfix modelled the right-hand van third and the compo in as-built condition. Hornby's latest BR maroon release represented the ventlators with paint (quite effectively), so it is possible to have a moulding that could represent both (with different glazing units) if you were prepared to accept some small compromises. There are also underframe differences between the diagrams, although nothing that a common basis with different component positions wouldn't handle. If you mean the ~1930 bow-ended 60' set, I'd love to see them modelled. They wouldn't have the same sales appeal as the Centenaries because they aren't as distinctive, though. Adrian But Adrian, anything in Great Western flies off the shelves anyway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Whatever rake, it is important to stay with the one manufacturer, as matched colours change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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