Class 20s on mixed freight operations in BR Blue era?

[GraemeR BR (WR)]

Absolutely great Kenny, thank you for scanning those in.

[keefer]

ScR in the early 80s, in fife around the markinch area had mixed trip workings

 

http://brucegalloway.zenfolio.com/p599995334

 

particularly photos 27,49,56,57,60 (a double-header, both nose first!), 69,106,107,132

[TheSignalEngineer]

Hi Graeme

I have now scanned the photo of the single 20 (20158) at Bescot I took,

also the same day not a great picture but I took another one (20128) on its own with a brake van,

 

20158 approaches Bescot with engineers wagons from Wednesbury tip, 26/3/82.

 

 

20128 with brake van runs into Bescot, presumaby on local trip working, 26/3/82

 

cheers

When I was at Curzon St in the green/blue transition era, the trip from Bescot would often have a single Class 20. It conveyed mostly cripples for the wagon shop at Duddeston, so had a different mix of wagons every day.

[DVLR Dave]

The class 20 workings to Rowntrees in York continued until the rail connection closed in 1987. Until the closure of Redfern Glass in York a couple of years before they would also have worked through to Foss Islands Road Goods Station with soda ash for the works, domestic coal in 20 ton hoppers, and oil in TTA's for the siding at the fomer DVLR Layerthorpe Station. Pre 1981 there would have been 35 Ton Grain Wagons, Mineral wagons filled with scrap, further coal wagons, Vanfits carryng bagged fertiliser and 100 ton tank wagons (the latter going to and from storage) being worked from and to the DVLR. I would imagine that this would be as mixed a freight train as you would find at this time. The duties were shared with class 25s and class 31s.

[Guest Phil]

A interesting class of loco - which I have rambled on about before.

Outside of the OP's zone was the fact that the majority of EE type 1s replaced steam on a one for one basis up until the late 1960s, although there are also many photographs to prove pairs were also used significantly. On the LMR there appeared to be a noticable change in traction policy, where type 2s were split up and used singly, and type 1s were paired up, but there was still local work for single locos. You'll find plenty of images of single locos stabled "elephant style" on Bescot holding sidings proving they worked singly.

 

Jobs were as already stated. The Wednesbury trip engine was a single class 20 for a while, also an 08 for a period too. Apart from the "traffic" loco, the engineers trip engines were often single 20s, both the Walsall area engines, as well as the Wolverhampton Mill St job (T16 for a while). These trips were run midweek to outstable and recover wagons used in weekend engineering works, as well as tripping loads of ballast spoil to engineers tips, returning empties back into yards.

 

HTH

[Guest Phil]

Following up my last post - here are a few Flickr links to what I have mentioned ;

 

 

Single 20162 on No 5 holding siding 1985.

 

Single 20177 again on No 5 holding siding in 1984 - note shunting pole across the buffer and drawhook.

 

20166 towing a brake on the Down main approaching Bescot station in 1984

 

20026 or 36 trundling along the Up goods line towards the south end of Bescot in 1981 - very probably a P way trip engine.

 

With a centre headcode example in front of it !!!

 

20028 with a brake, on the UDGL behind the Downside platform at Bescot in 1986

 

20141 on what appears to be a raft of ZHVs which were converted from 16T mineral wagons, trundling along the same line as 20028 probably heading for Wednesbury tip

 

Two more single 20s nose to cab on Bescot No5 holding siding - 20151 being the visible loco - 1987.

 

 

HTH

[TheSignalEngineer]

According to my photo log I took some pictures at Banbury in 1980 of 34051 Winston Churchill en route to Didcot hauled by 20082. It had a BR standard brake van at the back IIRC. I don't know where it had been hauled from.

[GraemeR BR (WR)]

Thanks to everyone for the great replies - please keep them coming.

 

One more I've found recently on the now closed (but hopefully reopening) Eden Valley line in East Cumbria.

Weedkilling trains from 1990 (first two images on the page):

 

http://www.evr-cumbria.org.uk/evreightiestrains.html

[TheSignalEngineer]

According to my photo log I took some pictures at Banbury in 1980 of 34051 Winston Churchill en route to Didcot hauled by 20082. It had a BR standard brake van at the back IIRC. I don't know where it had been hauled from.

 

Thought I had posted these but it may have gone into the Black Hole during server changes

 

 

 

Photographs Copyright C E Steele

[Jack]

For a minute there I thought that was a 20 on southern metals ...

[brian daniels]

According to my photo log I took some pictures at Banbury in 1980 of 34051 Winston Churchill en route to Didcot hauled by 20082. It had a BR standard brake van at the back IIRC. I don't know where it had been hauled from.

 

And here it is at Oxford

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5759833104/

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5759843758/

[Thomas]

 

Not on the Southern, coming back from Temple Mills to Willesden (D8000 ) When at Stonebridge Park ,1968-71, all class 20's worked singly to Hither Green, Norwood ect., even had a job to Three Bridge's in the dead of night. No pictures I'm affraid.

 

Tom.

[GraemeR BR (WR)]

I wondered if anyone can think of an instance of single class 20 with HAA MGR hoppers - probably a small rake. I realise that this is not what they were designed for, and that the whole operation at power stations was designed to avoid shunting. But were there any factories or industries that took delivery this way. I can find many pics of two 20s hauling huge rakes to/from power stations, but not much else. I am building up my Railfreight livery rolling stock, but I'd like to include the HAA's I have if I can.

Many thanks

[Phil Bullock]

Hi Graeme

 

Dont have photo but....

 

MGR wagon repair shops at Burton must surely have been destination/source of such a train

 

Kind regards

 

Phil Bullock

[GraemeR BR (WR)]

Thanks for that Phil.

Yes I haven't found a photo of a 20 doing it (yet) but I have found this great Andy Williams shot of a 37 performing this operation:

http://www.bescot.plus.com/trains/37334_Burton/

 

P.S. Found 20's double-heading with MGR's north through Burton in 1985:

And then in the same set (and to return to the title of the thread) a mixed freight rake in the same spot also in 1985:

If anybody knows anything about this freight movement I'd love to have the details.

[Guest Phil]

Hi Graeme

 

Dont have photo but....

 

MGR wagon repair shops at Burton must surely have been destination/source of such a train

 

Kind regards

 

Phil Bullock

 

I don't think it ever was a single 20 for the simple reason it was a single manned job, and would have required a secondman in at least one direction (nose leading). The Burton cripples left Bescot around 2130, by which time a coal engine, as well as several trip engines would have returned to Bescot and would have been used in preference.

 

 

Whilst talkin about single 20s and Burton area, I am trying to find out about an alleged incident which happened one night, but which there is very sketchy anecdotal, non factual information. A young Bescot footplateman, who may have been a secondman / fireman, ended up in the driving seat of a class 20 running nose first back from Toton to Bescot. It is alleged the train / light engine was turned up the Goods lines at Burton despite there being a relaying possession in front of him, which wasn't altogether known about. The rumour goes that the engine ran out of track and the driver stepped off the footplate straight onto the ballast, possibly with full underpants as a result.

 

 

This is a tale, which I am sure has grown over the years. I have no idea when it was, what it was, and what actually happened, except the drivers name, who sadly passed on several years ago. There may well have been an element of the man who should have been in the driving seat not being present, but if anyone can supply any concrete facts about this incident I'd love to know. I have asked the ex Burton Driver Tony "font of all knowledge" Gregory but he hasn't been able to find anything out about it.

[Jamesb]

Not my picture, so all credit goes to the original photographer.

 

http://www.theironroad.net/DieselElectricLocomotives/Class-20/Class20-British-Rail/16231306_qFZpw9/1219331214_6V6Tr#!i=1219331214&k=6V6Tr&lb=1&s=O

 

James

[GraemeR BR (WR)]

Not my picture, so all credit goes to the original photographer.

 

http://www.theironro...=6V6Tr&lb=1&s=O

 

James

Great spot James, and yes great shot taken by Scott Borthwick. Not an area of the country I know well. Can anybody shed any light on this operation?

Many thanks again.

[Jamesb]

Hi Graeme,

 

Peak Forest is on the former Midland Railway route from Manchester Central (closed 1969) to Ambergate (and onwards to Derby and London). The countryside around Buxton is renowned for Limestone quarrying and has provided the railways with work for well over a century. The modern day route is freight only and runs from Chinley to Buxton, via Peak Forest and the massive Tunstead quarry complex. At Buxton, a second branch runs off to Hindlow, this being the former LNWR route to Ashbourne and Uttoexter. Another large quarry complex exists at Hindlow, with a small set of sidings named 'Briggs sidings', named after a quarrying firm that initially set them up. The whole route is steeply graded, with the route from Blackwell Mill halt up to Peak Forest summit at around 1 in 90 (against loaded Limestone trains) and the route up to Hindlow and Briggs being even more severe, at around 1 in 60.

 

My prized copy of 'Freight Only' (Michael Rhodes and Paul Shannon, 1987) lists the Briggs trip as running Monday to Friday under headcode 7T82, departing at 13.20 from Briggs. It would arrive at Peak Forest where the wagons would feed into the Monday to Friday Peak Forest - Walton Old Junction departure (7F17, departing at 1545).

 

Briggs sidings can be found on Google maps by entering 'Sterndale Moor' into the search box. Briggs are the curved sidings to the left of the two rows of stabled hoppers and below the incorrect wording 'Tunstead Quarry'. Tunstead can be found at its correct location by entering 'Green Lane, Buxton'. You can't fail to miss it. It is huge! Peak Forest 'SS' (stabling sidings) are further up the line where Batham Gate Road crosses the railway. It is a fascinating and busy location, even today.

 

No Class 20's (sadly), but plenty of thrash on this video of the area. At 1:12 the two Tractors are on the final assault to Briggs sidings, thrashing up the 1 in 60.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl1eQ4KwYt0

 

James

[royaloak]

Class 20s rarely worked on the Western Region

They worked regularly to Severn Tunnel jn via Gloucester.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

According to my photo log I took some pictures at Banbury in 1980 of 34051 Winston Churchill en route to Didcot hauled by 20082. It had a BR standard brake van at the back IIRC. I don't know where it had been hauled from.

 

Might've come from Derby Loco Works as it was there in 1980.

 

Peter

[Fat Controller]

They worked regularly to Severn Tunnel jn via Gloucester.

And as far west as Llanharan- saw a pair there in '76.

[pharrc20]

Hi Graeme,

 

Peak Forest is on the former Midland Railway route from Manchester Central (closed 1969) to Ambergate (and onwards to Derby and London). The countryside around Buxton is renowned for Limestone quarrying and has provided the railways with work for well over a century. The modern day route is freight only and runs from Chinley to Buxton, via Peak Forest and the massive Tunstead quarry complex. At Buxton, a second branch runs off to Hindlow, this being the former LNWR route to Ashbourne and Uttoexter. Another large quarry complex exists at Hindlow, with a small set of sidings named 'Briggs sidings', named after a quarrying firm that initially set them up. The whole route is steeply graded, with the route from Blackwell Mill halt up to Peak Forest summit at around 1 in 90 (against loaded Limestone trains) and the route up to Hindlow and Briggs being even more severe, at around 1 in 60.

 

My prized copy of 'Freight Only' (Michael Rhodes and Paul Shannon, 1987) lists the Briggs trip as running Monday to Friday under headcode 7T82, departing at 13.20 from Briggs. It would arrive at Peak Forest where the wagons would feed into the Monday to Friday Peak Forest - Walton Old Junction departure (7F17, departing at 1545).

 

 

 

Briggs sidings can be found on Google maps by entering 'Sterndale Moor' into the search box. Briggs are the curved sidings to the left of the two rows of stabled hoppers and below the incorrect wording 'Tunstead Quarry'. Tunstead can be found at its correct location by entering 'Green Lane, Buxton'. You can't fail to miss it. It is huge! Peak Forest 'SS' (stabling sidings) are further up the line where Batham Gate Road crosses the railway. It is a fascinating and busy location, even today.

 

No Class 20's (sadly), but plenty of thrash on this video of the area. At 1:12 the two Tractors are on the final assault to Briggs sidings, thrashing up the 1 in 60.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl1eQ4KwYt0

 

James

 

Hi all, to add to what James has posted, pairs of 20s started working from Buxton from May 1984 following trials on the ICI hopper workings to Northwich in 1982. Their main work initally was on the ICI services to Northwich and also some of the roadstone aggregates traffic to east and north Manchester. As James has posted the copy of the page, they were also used on the local trip workings that started/terminated at Peak Forest going to Earle's Sidings, Hope for cement traffic; Buxton for fuel oil and sometimes loco spares; and Hindlow Brigg's Sidings for powdered lime. They also turned up on the main feeder service from Warrington Arpley to Peak Forest in the early morning and mid afternoon return. In later years pairs of 20s could be found on the Tunstead to Hindlow limestone trains until around 1991 or so when they lost out to Buxton based class 37s which had themselves been dropped down the list by the then new class 60s. The feeder service from Arpley could generally be split into three portions; cement empties from Northenden; mixed wagons powdered lime/fuel oil/anything else e.g. repaired wagons, vans; and cement empties from Ditton. Likewise the afternoon train was formed in a similar manner; cement loads for Northenden; mixed wagons; cement loads for Ditton. I have a load of notes of these services passing Hazel Grove around 1986.

 

HTH

Paul