Dock Green

[Jon Fitness]

Maybe a change of driver boards is all that is needed...maybe try  Heathcote or GF controls for alternatives.

Cheers

JF

[chaz]

Maybe a change of driver boards is all that is needed...maybe try  Heathcote or GF controls for alternatives.

Cheers

JF

 

I thought of that Jon. In fact the MERG driver boards worked absolutely fine when controlled from the laptop with the setting software and a USB cable. It was in the switches and/or their wiring that the problem lay. However things are moving (the die is cast!), I have ordered the Tortoises and this afternoon I rewired the switches on one of the boards. I know it may seem like a most drastic remedy but this particular gremlin first appeared last summer. I thought I had chased it away but its recent return caused alarm and despondency, only relieved by the decision to cut my losses.

Although I had chosen servos (mainly because of the price advantage) this was beginning to look like a mistake as their adjustment seems to be very easy to disturb. Although it is easy enough to to re-adjust them the last thing I would want to do at the start of an exhibition is get out the laptop to do this.

 

The servos will probably find use on my US On30 layout which will be underway once Dock Green is finished, but their use will be dependent on them proving more reliable.

 

Chaz

Edited June 22, 2013 by chaz

[chaz]

The ability to rearrange two of the legs so that they support a baseboard on bolts is really paying off as I change the point motors. The baseboard in the photo has a lot of very delicate detail on its top surface but with the side plates on to protect the edges it can be turned over with no risk of damage. At the far end you can see a G cramp which is holding the baseboard firmly against the supporting legs and stops it rocking as I work.

 

 

I have stripped off all the servos but one (I will probably leave the one that is powering the semaphore signal in place) and their electronic driver boards. I have also removed all the wiring from the switches. These cleaned up very well so I am able to re-use them, rewiring them as polarity changers for the Tortoises. The wiring from the switches is taken to a tagstrip. When the Tortoises arrive they will be wired back to the same tags. You can see a partially wired tagstrip half way along the board, with white and orange wires running from the switches. Rather then put the crossover wires on the back of the switches - which involves putting two wires into some of the solder tags - I put the X connection that made the switch a polarity changer on the tagstrip where there is physically more room (not the least in the holes in the solder tags). This means that only one wire need be soldered to each tag on the back of the switch.

 

The switching of the point crossings and of the relays that work the indicator panel can be done by the two internal switches in each Tortoise. I will probably wire all the tags on each Tortoise (8 in all) to a tag strip using a standard colour code. This will make it easy to put temporary connections in place using crocodile clipped leads so that the points can be set to move the right way in response to the panel switches, the polarity of the crossings can be correct, and the indicator relays can be turned on in the correct point position.

 

Chaz

Edited June 23, 2013 by chaz

[chaz]

More boring stuff yesterday. All the point switches are now wired to tags, but I can't go any futher until the Tortoises arrive (hope they don't live up to their name!).

 

I feel the need for something a bit more interesting today. I think the platform barrows might get some time spent....

 

Chaz

Edited June 25, 2013 by chaz

[N15class]

I do like the way you have made the legs work as a working cradle. I must bear it in mind for mine.

[RandyWales]

It's an ill wind...More sooty black sprayed on yesterday. In fact on the brickwork of the stairs down from bridge #1 (the one by the warehouse) to ground level I thought I had overdone it. This caused more than a little anglo-saxon until I hit on a lucky remedy. I thought I had nothing to lose, some very light application of a fibre-glass scratch brush may well lighten the brick by allowing more of the red to show. Of course it would be very easy to go right through the black, the brick red and even the buff, revealing the white of the foam board brick sheet - which is why the scratching has to be very gentle, taking off some of the black in a very controlled way. It takes a while to do even a small area but it's worth it, I think, and the result really does look like dirty brick. The patchiness adds to the effect. i wouldn't want use this effect on all the brick - there is a lot of it - but for one or two prominent sections it's a nice feature. There is more to do yet but I'm getting there. Again a photo shows up every little defect. The photos have made the surfaces look slightly shiny but in the flesh they are quite matte.Chaz

Hi Chaz....

I apologise for, as you said, potentially causing you lots of work!

To my mind, what you've done with your brickwork so far would satisfy me - looks fine to me, as it's all to the same very high standard.

It's just that I was 'lucky' that an experiment with DAS paid off.

I am still experimenting with the technique and it's application in 7mm, so it's a case of hoping that my luck holds.

I'm using Slaters bricks, and if I'm not mistaken, yours are SouthEast Finecast?

That shows my inexperience in 7mm, as I would have gone down that road for sure, had I been aware of 7mm Finecast.

The reason for that is the bricks are much better defined than Slaters, which potentially gives the DAS much more of a purchase area in the mortar courses.

Before you commit to using DAS, knock up a test piece ready painted. I'll try to explain how it's done on my thread, and maybe you can surprise yourself too.

I just hope you don't come running after me if it goes awry.

 

Randall

[chaz]

I do like the way you have made the legs work as a working cradle. I must bear it in mind for mine.

 

Thanks Peter. I originally did it to avoid any need to work underneath baseboards, but it also pays off in avoiding any damage to detail work on the top surface.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Hi Chaz....

I apologise for, as you said, potentially causing you lots of work!

To my mind, what you've done with your brickwork so far would satisfy me - looks fine to me, as it's all to the same very high standard.

It's just that I was 'lucky' that an experiment with DAS paid off.

I am still experimenting with the technique and it's application in 7mm, so it's a case of hoping that my luck holds.

I'm using Slaters bricks, and if I'm not mistaken, yours are SouthEast Finecast?

That shows my inexperience in 7mm, as I would have gone down that road for sure, had I been aware of 7mm Finecast.

The reason for that is the bricks are much better defined than Slaters, which potentially gives the DAS much more of a purchase area in the mortar courses.

Before you commit to using DAS, knock up a test piece ready painted. I'll try to explain how it's done on my thread, and maybe you can surprise yourself too.

I just hope you don't come running after me if it goes awry.

 

Randall

 

Thanks for you comments Randall. I will be interested to read your explanation of the "DAS method". I may or may not use it myself (you're quite right - a test piece is in order) but I have certainly resolved to paint my warehouse to look very sooty.

Incidentally one of the reasons for my choice of SE Finecast is the larger sheet size. However the Slater's version does have the advantage of being a brick type colour - no nasty white if you happen to go right through your paint anywhere.

 

Chaz

Edited June 25, 2013 by chaz

[RandyWales]

Thanks for you comments Randall. I will be interested to read your explanation of the "DAS method". I may or may not use it myself (you're quite right - a test piece is in order) but I have certainly resolved to paint my warehouse to look very sooty.

Incidentally one of the reasons for my choice of SE Finecast is the larger sheet size. However the Slater's version does have the advantage of being a brick type colour - no nasty white if you happen to go right through your paint anywhere.

 

Chaz

Hi Chaz....

I've just posted the method on my thread....

You can work DAS into pre-painted brickwork....you can touch it up before applying the final wash if necessary...

Hmmm...I wonder if a seal using Johnsons's Klear would stop you taking off too much paint?

Randall

Edited June 25, 2013 by RandyWales

[RandyWales]

I've just applied a coat of Klear to one of my (pre-painted) test pieces...

Will report back...

Randall

[chaz]

Hmmm...I wonder if a seal using Johnsons's Klear would stop you taking off too much paint?

Randall

 

Maybe, personally I don't like adding any sort of varnish over weathered surfaces. It always changes the look of them, even if only slightly, so I would rather rely on taking care not to. (Some modellers use a spray of varnish to fix weathering powders but when I tried it I found that I lost the dusty, gritty texture look.)

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I received the box of Tortoises that I ordered from Digitrains this morning. Having used them before I thought it a good idea to run wires from the PCB connecting tracks to an 8-way tagstrip. In fact I will be using one of the internal switches to switch the point crossing, the other will be an on/off switch to switch the relay for the indicator panel, so one of the eight connections wil be redundant - but for the small amount of extra work involved and with half an eye on possible future use I wired them all.

 

Peter and I spent the afternoon on wiring the nine motors for Dock Green. I am now waiting for some heavier gauge piano wire from Eileen's Emporium to replace the very light stuff supplied. when this arrives the motors will be installed and the wiring completed.

 

Chaz (yawning)

[chaz]

COMING SOON.....

 

I have made some progress with the first test build of a "Scotch Barrow" from Peter Harvey's superb etches.

 

 

Looks like some really crude soldering doesn't it? However, when you know that the deck of this model barrow is just 41mm long, and the spindles for the smaller wheels are 0.7mm wire, you will realise just how much magnified this picture is.  This first build model has a few dodgy compromises but having put this one together the other eight will be made as a batch with improvements based on what this one has taught me.

 

Coming soon? Well when I have the batch well underway I will put a step by step account on forum.

 

Chaz

Edited June 28, 2013 by chaz

[chaz]

I decided that soldering the castors in a fixed position is an acceptable compromise, although the brass etch does include enough parts to make them swivel - achieving this would be quite a challenge.

 

I must also try to get the wheel rims to fit better. I might well soften the brass to make it easier to form the tight cylindrical shape needed.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Here's the completed test build of an LNER Scotch barrow.

 

 

As usual the camera shows up every little defect - and I do mean little. I usually use my Lumix compact for forum photos but it couldn't cope too well with the size of this model so I had to use my "serious" camera. I found Peter Harvey's etches a joy to work with, each part fitting as it should (although I might have to have another go at fitting that end frame!).

 

It's not a quick job to build one of these - each of the wheels has five parts - but I intend the batch build to be completed, a little now and then, before Warley.  I had intended that all of the barrows should stand on the platform under the canopy but they will look so good I think that at least one should be standing near the front of the layout, possibly on the area of setts.

 

Chaz

Edited July 1, 2013 by chaz

[chaz]

today Pete and I installed four Tortoises and wired them back to the tag-strips already connected to the switches. I put temporary connections in using crocodile leads first to ensure that the points moved the right way in response to the switches - when a switch is up the point should be in its normal position. Next the crossing connections will need to be wired to one of the Tortoise switches and then back to the DCC bus. Again I will use a temporary connection to check that the polarity is correct, depending on the position of the blades. I know it should be possible to work it out and then put the wiring in but I think it's just as quick to decide the connections by trial and error. Finally the other Tortoise switch in each motor will be wired (via tag-strips) to the relays that work the indicator panel.

 

 

The (not very exciting) photo shows what was the trickiest Tortoise to install, it being tight up against the side frame. The orange and white wires are the motor connections and would have been reversed (orange to white and white to orange) if the points had moved "the wrong way" in response to the switch.

 

Chaz

Edited July 3, 2013 by chaz

[Donw]

I found that short leads soldered to the tortoise which then connect into a length of screw terminal strip (aka choc blocks) made it easy to swap leads around and chnage atortoise if needed. But I never had your cradle arrangement to invert the baseboard.

Don

[chaz]

I found that short leads soldered to the tortoise which then connect into a length of screw terminal strip (aka choc blocks) made it easy to swap leads around and chnage atortoise if needed. But I never had your cradle arrangement to invert the baseboard.

Don

 

I did consider using choc' blocks Don, but I prefer the security of a soldered joint. You are right that screw terminals would make it easy to change a Tortoise but in the eleven years that they have been in service on my home layout I have never needed to change one, only recently have I had to open up a couple to service the switches.

As to swapping the leads around I think it might be easier to move the crocodile leads, that I use as temporary test connections, on the tagstrips than it would be to screw and unscrew choc' blocks.

 

Chaz

Edited July 5, 2013 by chaz

[chaz]

Spaghetti, anyone?

 

 

All the Tortoise motors are in and all but one are wired back to their switches. The exception is the one which, because it's half of a crossover, needs to be connected to a switch on the next baseboard. I still have to do the wiring to the crossings (frogs), using one of the Tortoise switches as a polarity changer, and the wiring to the route indicator panel, using the other switch as an on/off. It's encouraging that all the problems associated with using Servos (particularly the need to get the adjustment of throw just so) are a thing of the past - no need to take a laptop to a show "just in case".

 

I found a source of wire-ended bulbs that might serve in the street lights.

 

 

I got them from Rapid Electronics (their part No. 41-0186, described as "rice grain" bulbs). They operate at 1.5V, so will either need their own dedicated supply or eight of them could be connected in series and powered from a 12V supply. More on this when I have had a chance to put them into the street lights. I'm still not sure I want the lights actually working, when I have seen layouts at shows with working lights they seem to me a distraction and unconvincing, looking too much like a Christmas tree, but I think it's important that the lights should look as though they would work.

 

Chaz

[Donw]

I had wondered about using servo motors, your experiences reinforce my suspiscions that it might not be that simple. I have found tortoises to be so easy because you just adjust roughly and the motor sorts itself out. I may try some  Cobalt motors on my micro-layout (2mm) as they are a bit smaller. This is one of the things I like about RMweb you get a useful exchange of information. Threads where people are happy to discuss problems are so useful. Thankyou.

Don

[chaz]

I had wondered about using servo motors, your experiences reinforce my suspiscions that it might not be that simple. I have found tortoises to be so easy because you just adjust roughly and the motor sorts itself out. I may try some  Cobalt motors on my micro-layout (2mm) as they are a bit smaller. This is one of the things I like about RMweb you get a useful exchange of information. Threads where people are happy to discuss problems are so useful. Thankyou.

Don

 

Using servos proved to be a mistake for me Don. But they would have worked well and given no problem in service if I had configured the MERG boards to maintain the power to them, rather than switching off after a second or two. This would have eliminated the problem of spring-back which made the adjustment so crucial and easily disturbed. I chose not to do this because they are not silent when constantly powered and to have all nine points constantly ticking is unacceptable to me.

 

You are quite right about Tortoises - there is ample power and the adjustment is not that crucial - the stalled motor holds the point blades firmly against the stock rails - if you do switch them off (my DCC accessory drivers on my home layout do this) the internal gearing prevents any back driving from the springiness of the drive wire AND they are silent once the motor has stalled. The downsides? They are expensive and when they move they are louder than the servos. They are also bigger than the servos and this gave me a problem on Dock Green - one of them is crammed in between the canal and a baseboard cross beam and it's drive wire had to be cranked to bring it into line with the hole in the

tie-bar.

 

Incidentally I discard the steel wire supplied by Circutron and replace it with 1mm piano wire.

 

Chaz

Edited July 8, 2013 by chaz

[Donw]

Interesting I did find creep back with my home  made 0 gauge turnouts not much but on applying power to the layout I would hear them all move a fraction taking up the tension I suppose.

I cannot remember now what wire I used something intended for model aircraft that felt about right (a higly technical assessment!).

Don

[chaz]

Interesting I did find creep back with my home  made 0 gauge turnouts not much but on applying power to the layout I would hear them all move a fraction taking up the tension I suppose.

I cannot remember now what wire I used something intended for model aircraft that felt about right (a higly technical assessment!).

Don

 

Assuming you are talking about Tortoise motors, Don, all mine buzz briefly when the layout power is turned on, but this is definitely not caused by the point blades which do not creep away from the stock rails. I suspect that there is some movement inside the Tortoise when power is removed. There is quite a long train of gears inside to achieve the slow motion from a small (and therefore high-revving) motor and a small movement of the motor spindle will be absorbed by backlash and does not, in my experience, produce any movement of the drive wire. In any case the gearing is very high in the reverse direction so you would need some impossibly springy blades to backdrive the Tortoise. I think that's the reason that Circutron advise against moving the drive manually - it would be quite likely to damage the gears.

 

Just to be clear, on my home layout the Tortoises are switched by MERG accessory decoders which are configured to turn off after a short time so if there were any creep of the point blades with power removed I would be suffering a blizzard of derailments.   Of course the "buzz" when power is restored when the points are changed is normally masked by the whirr of the motor moving the blades to the other position, so it's only on power-up that the effect is heard.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Now you see it....

 

 

Now you don't...

 

 

I don't know what it is - it's a bit too big to be a box for a phone - but it doesn't look out of place and I am happy with it. It certainly does a good job hiding that pesky T-nut.

 

Taming the spaghetti...

 

 

I have to accept the fact that the wiring can never be as tidy as I would like; too many afterthoughts, changes and wires emerging here and there all over the underside of the baseboard top (each section of rail has a dropper), but grouping wires in tight bundles with miniature cable-ties improves matters.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Woops!

When I modified the Peco points to remove the "coffins" I also trimmed the length of the plastic tie-bars, mainly to lose the moulded pips which are there to make it easy to operate the points by hand. However on the first point I dealt with I cut too much off on one side. I realised my mistake when the point would not throw properly - the shortened plastic tie-bar was able to move completely clear of the stock rail and could therefore lift a bit. When I attempted to throw the point back the end of the tie-bar hit the side of the rail and stopped the movement. There was a fair amount of Anglo-Saxon and I left the problem for a while. Fortunately the Peco blades project beyond the leading slide chair. This is not prototypical but it worked in my favour. I realised that I could solve the problem by soldering a small strip of brass to the underside of the point blade so that it runs under the stock rail as the mutilated tie bar should have done.

The photos show the solution.

 

 

 

The bright solder is rather obvious but the usual dull track colour will tone it down. Of course the repair was made tricky as the point is glued down and ballasted, so I was very relieved to get it done.

 

Chaz

Edited July 10, 2013 by chaz