chaz Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) I too always tap 10BA, but then, unless I get silly about Avonsides (I do have a fondness for little dock tanks), there wasn't a great number of outside valve gear locos with Great Western on the tanks in the early 30's, so not much call for return cranks in my repertoire. Philosophically, tap & countersink the rear of the wheel, screw in a 10BA screw with a smear of araldite, maybe secure a suitable washer to the face if the wheel too. Screw on a tapped bush, which might have already been shortened to get it to a suitable length, ensure that the screw is not proud, and solder on the crank, maybe the merest fraction to the anticlockwise side of where it should be. A wipe with the file across the wheel end of the bush should allow it to snug down at the right orientation. Do keep the story going! Simon Seems straitforward enough, Simon. A few questions if I may.... Can I assume no harm will come to the Slater's wheel when soldering the crank on? "solder on the crank, maybe the merest fraction to the anticlockwise side of where it should be" Why? Why not in the right place? Soldering the crank on with Araldite on the 10BA threads - isn't that going to mean that the only way to get the wheels off is take all three down as a unit? Using Loctite at least offers the chance to disassemble once the wheels are off... "Do keep the story going!" Pretty much guaranteed, we are on page 77, and posting progress here has become a habit. Chaz Edited September 15, 2014 by chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 ... posting progress here has become a habit. At least you have no fear of your Doctor telling you to "kick it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 At least you have no fear of your Doctor telling you to "kick it". Quite so. As you live near Basingstoke might you be going down to Wimborne in October to see Dock Green? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted September 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 15, 2014 Prompted by Chaz's photos above I had a look at the Premier website and their frames and rods. I note that the LMS, LNER and GWR are well catered for... Interestingly you can get the loco frames etc for a T9 but not the tender. I wonder if they would do a Beattie Well Tank chassis to go with the Laurie Griffin (ex shedmaster, ex jedenco) body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 Prompted by Chaz's photos above I had a look at the Premier website and their frames and rods. I note that the LMS, LNER and GWR are well catered for... Interestingly you can get the loco frames etc for a T9 but not the tender. I wonder if they would do a Beattie Well Tank chassis to go with the Laurie Griffin (ex shedmaster, ex jedenco) body? As I said I'm not sure if they are Premier but the frames I am using for the K3 rebuilding are pretty basic. There will be quite a lot of work to do on them to represent details such as springs, ashpan etc. There is no provision for either springing or compensation. Frames for a watercart tender would be easy enough. Chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) Quick reply before boarding plane Screw is araldited to the wheel - SCREW GOES IN FROM THE BACK - sorry, should have made this clearer!!! Crank is soldered to the tapped bush Slight offset to allow for repeated disassembly & tightening during loco build - final tightening position can be adjusted by filing the end of the bush More later Edited September 16, 2014 by Simond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 The final batch of photo's from Telford, all taken by Sue... Peter (nearest the camera) and Dave, in full concentration mode as they operate. Looks like I'm ticking someone off! I wasn't - Sue caught me in full expostulation mode.... I can never understand why some model railway exhibitors hide away behind their layouts - much more fun to engage with your public. The back of Dock Green is not so pretty with all those connecting cables dangling. When I designed the layout I hoped that it could be set up with no need to go underneath. In the event there are just two items that require this. One is the coupling to the signal - which I am hoping to modify and the other the connection to the handset socket at the warehouse end - an afterthought to allow the operator to see the action in the warehouse siding. That's it, unless you have some you could post..... 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Quite so. As you live near Basingstoke might you be going down to Wimborne in October to see Dock Green? I suspect that there are a few of us that would love to but with the S7 bash at Mark, Somerset on 18th, the chances of 2 pass outs for the same weekend are remote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) I suspect that there are a few of us that would love to but with the S7 bash at Mark, Somerset on 18th, the chances of 2 pass outs for the same weekend are remote! Oh well, just a thought, there will be other chances. Hang on, wouldn't Wimborne be on the way back from Somerset? - "Darling, I will be down there anyway, just need to stop over. It's on the way home, it won't cost any more petrol....." Edited September 15, 2014 by chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 Some technical stuff which might be of interest. Those of you who gasp "Old hat, get on with the good stuff!" can click on to something more interesting.... Found myself needing to tap a couple of Slater's crankpin bushes. Drilled them out to 1.4mm, tapping size for 10BA first. To start the thread I used my cheapo Chinese pillar drill. Job in a machine vice, 10BA tap in the drill chuck. Belt of the drill off the pulleys so that the spindle will turn freely. Don't be tempted to cut the thread under power. I put a mark on the top of the bush with a pen so that I can see if the bush is rotating in the vice and therefore the thread not being formed. Turn the chuck gently by hand at the same time exerting very gentle pressure on the feed handle. Keep backing off to clear the swarf from the tap. I only use this set up to start the thread - with larger threads you could cut the whole thing here but with a size as small as 10BA I prefer to finish the cut by hand. With the tap still engaged in the part-cut thread remove from the vice and chuck. Put the bush in a pin-chuck and the tap in a tap-wrench. I hold the job as in the photo - It's easier to keep everything in line if you ignore the tap wrench's tommy bar - any tendency to bend the set-up will snap the tap! Complete the cut - not forgetting to back off half a turn frequently to clear swarf - if the tap jams and you force it - the tap will snap! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A problem arose with the Slater's wheel sets..... Tightening the Allen screw that holds the wheel on the axle revealed that it was proud rather than flush. With space at a premium on any loco with outside valve-gear this must be corrected. A good quality countersink will do the job but be gentle! Don't go too deep - keep checking by offering up a screw and stop when it's flush. The photo above shows a wheel pushed right on to the axle - there is a gap in the hole between the bottom of the countersink and the top of the squared end on the axle, so you can safely deepen the countersink. Both of these operations can be done without the pillar drill but using one makes it easier to be accurate. I think it's the first machine tool a modeller should buy. Chaz 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikks Posted September 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2014 First time I've visited this thread........congratulations, absolutely brilliant modelling. Rgds....Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 First time I've visited this thread........congratulations, absolutely brilliant modelling. Rgds....Mike Mike, thanks for the comments, much appreciated. Chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 Golly! Just received some 1F super caps from RS. Here's one.... Although I had checked with their catalogue before ordering, in the hand they really are very small. Granted they are only rated at 2.7V so a keep alive will need 6 in series, but even that many will be easy to fit into most 7mm models. Chaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 This morning I countersunk all six of the wheels sufficiently so that allen bolts that secure them to the axles are flush to the wheel boss (whilst doing this I couldn't help thinking that it shouldn't be necessary). I then re-assembled the wheels and couplings rods. All three crankpins visible are different! From L to R... The rear axle has a crankpin bush mounted as Slater's intended, on a steel 12BA screw. The centre axle has a crankpin tapped 10BA and mounted (for the moment) on a brass CH screw.The coupling rods are retained by a nut and washer, but later when the valve-gear is added this will be replaced with a second tapped bush, reversed and carrying the return crank. The front axle has its crankpin bush tapped 12BA and reversed, with the flange thinned as much as I dared. There is a little stiffness when pushing the frames on the wheels which I will eliminate before moving on to the next step. WTS Chaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) My memory is definitely going.... Just remembered this little gadget, an ESU decoder tester. It has a motor and a speaker on board, and a neat little connector in which the decoder connecting wires are clipped. The two yellow wires go off to the DCC. This will allow me to test a home-made keep-alive without having to disassemble a loco. In fact I can use the V3.5 decoder taken from the Peckett (which is now running with a V4 and ESU Powerpack - see above). I have made up a keep-alive as a testing piece - using 4 x 4700uf electrolytics and including the current limiting resistor and bypass diode. I will hook this up to the decoder from the Peckett and see what effect it has if any. I will post later with news of whether it worked or not. Edited September 16, 2014 by chaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted September 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2014 My memory is definitely going.... Just remembered this little gadget, an ESU decoder tester. It has a motor and a speaker on board, and a neat little connector in which the decoder connecting wires are clipped. The two yellow wires go off to the DCC. This will allow me to test a home-made keep-alive without having to disassemble a loco. In fact I can use the V3.5 decoder taken from the Peckett (which is now running with a V4 and ESU Powerpack - see above). I have made up a keep-alive as a testing piece - using 4 x 4700uf electrolytics and including the current limiting resistor and bypass diode. I will hook this up to the decoder from the Peckett and see what effect it has if any. I will post later with news of whether it worked or not. Where did the tester come from CHaz? Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Where did the tester come from CHaz? Don http://www.esu.eu/en/products/decoder-tester/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Don it's ESU just Google it Regards edit faster than a speeding bullet Daifly zoooooooooms ahead. Edited September 16, 2014 by Barnaby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 They are quite right - it's an ESU stock item. However it's really only a flash connector - there are no electronics on the board unless you count the LEDs which show the state of the function outputs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Short video showing the compensation in action. http://youtu.be/tjoEw28LHNo Firm downward pressure produced not a trace of rocking. It feels totally solid on the track in a way it only would if all six driving wheels are contact with the rails. In my experience compensation needs weighting to overcome any inertia in the beams - but no more than is required to get the loco' to pull a load. Chaz PS I can't believe the other videos Youtube has selected to fill the page once my little effort has run - seem to come from a strange other dimension..... Edited September 16, 2014 by chaz 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Chaz I amended my comment on the crankpin / return crank posts, I meant to say that the screw goes in from the back of the wheel. I see you appear to have worked this out, but sorry for any confusion my hasty response may have caused. I do agree that a steel screw is preferable. The ESU chip-tester is a neat bit of kit - I'd never seen such a thing, though £33 for "a fancy socket" is a tad pricy. Bet it's useful, tho'. I'm very interested in the difference in results you obtain between the "six pack" of 1F caps, and the four big 4700uF ones. Do tell. Best Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 Chaz I amended my comment on the crankpin / return crank posts, I meant to say that the screw goes in from the back of the wheel. I see you appear to have worked this out, but sorry for any confusion my hasty response may have caused. I do agree that a steel screw is preferable. The ESU chip-tester is a neat bit of kit - I'd never seen such a thing, though £33 for "a fancy socket" is a tad pricy. Bet it's useful, tho'. I'm very interested in the difference in results you obtain between the "six pack" of 1F caps, and the four big 4700uF ones. Do tell. Best Simon Simon, yup, quite right I worked it out. The chip tester is useful - BUT I will have to change the speaker to test V4 decoders.... Can't tell you anything about the difference between the six and the four yet as in tonight's test it didn't actually work! When/if I get it working I will, of course, post the results. Chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 17, 2014 Author Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) I fitted the motor and gearbox and added a touch of oil to all the bearings. I put the frames up on a couple of blocks of wood and connected the motor to my bench PSU. I ran it for a couple of hours, slowly at first and reversing the motor every ten minutes. It runs very smoothly, with no hint of tight spots. -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Martin Finney tender that is part-built needs some changes. I had started it as a high-front tender but on checking my copy of part 6A of the "Green Bible" it seems that most K3's had a low-front. One of the necessary changes is the type of coping plates fitted. I spent some time this afternoon removing the one type and fitting the other. The original coping plates were soldered on before the sides were fitted - rather than dismantle the assembly I replaced them in place - not too difficult with plenty of aluminium hair-grip type clips. Chaz Edited September 17, 2014 by chaz 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) The plan is now for a determined effort to finish the K3's frames viz spring the pony truck do the return cranks fit the cylinders and valve gear (should be a straitforward transplant from the old chassis) fit the pickups (the much maligned Slater's plungers) add brake gear ashpan sand pipes, cosmetic driving axle springs etc (that etc covers quite a list) install decoder, keep-alive and speaker paint What do you think, an hour or two? Edited September 18, 2014 by chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The plan is now for a dtermined effort to finish the K3's frames viz spring the pony truck do the return cranks fit the cylinders and valve gear (should be a straitforward transplant from the old chassis) fit the pickups (the much maligned Slater's plungers) add brake gear ashpan sand pipes, cosmetic driving axle springs etc (that etc covers quite a list) install decoder, keep-alive and speaker paint What do you think, an hour or two? My experience is that tasks always take longer than expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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