Pete Harvey Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 You need a 32 hour day mate , hope you get time soon He will need the extra hours as he will have a fire escape to build as very soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) The etched-brass parts for the fire escape (see previous post!) arrived in the post this morning. The usual careful accurate design work from Peter Harvey. First picture is of the structural parts. On the left are parts for the "frames" for the landings. You may just about to make out the half-etch along the top edges into which the deck plates will fit. On the right are the side plates for the stair flights. These are half-etched to receive the treads and their strengthening ribs. Next is a fret for the treads, landing decks and the plates which will be on the back of the brackets. The longer strips with a central half-etch form the flanges which fit the edges of the brackets. I think the real brackets would be cast iron so would need a thickened edge for strength. The treads and landings are half-etched with a very fine chequer plate effect. There are two of these frets in the set. This is the underside of the treads and decks etch.... You can see the half-etched lines down each tread into which the strengthening ribs will be soldered. You may also be able to see (just) the half-etched rebates on the edges of the deck plates which will help locate these on the structure. Very thorough design but only practicable if it's all spot-on accurate, which my past experience of Peter's brasswork suggests it will be. The last picture is of possibly the most impressive fret - the brackets which transfer the weight of the structure to the wall. The brackets are quite magnificent! The words masterpiece and genius are flung around far too often (and their meaning has been squandered many times on the second rate) - but I am tempted to wheel them out now to express how outstanding I think this work is. I am very grateful to Peter for taking such care over it. I do need to spend a little time getting the last bits soldered on to the tube wagon, and I also need to find ways of speeding up the repetitive tasks on the fire escape (eg - soldering the strengthening ribs to the treads) but when I start building I will photograph the steps and post here. Chaz Edited May 14, 2015 by chaz 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted May 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 14, 2015 I posted an agree to you because I think you are spot on in your appreciation of Peter's work. Good job you are pretty nifty at this soldering lark. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 I posted an agree to you because I think you are spot on in your appreciation of Peter's work. Good job you are pretty nifty at this soldering lark. Don Thanks Don. I must admit that when I am faced with work of this quality I do get a bit twitchy. I am eager to get started but also a bit hesitant - I really don't want to c*ck it up! The last thing that beautiful chequer plate needs is an excess of solder. Care will be taken. Chaz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puddlejumper Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Looking forward to this as I will be needing something similar for my North eastern coal drops. Frets look excellent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted May 14, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 14, 2015 Chaz, I met up with Pete tonight to collect some kindly donated scrap ns and brass strip. Very generous chap and, judging by those brackets (which are a thing of beauty), very skilled. Having spoken to him there's a good chance that I've a little etching project for him for Pencarrow. Looking forward to see how the fire escape goes together - no pressure ;- p 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 No, certainly not. But we're all watching, intently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Those fire escape etchings are a piece of art!!!! Great work that. Looing forward to the build. Lovely tube wagon, Jim's kits do go together well, I'm after one of his 20t Toad brakevans and the BR 20t one too, and already looking forward to them. Jinty ;-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) Chaz, I met up with Pete tonight to collect some kindly donated scrap ns and brass strip. Very generous chap and, judging by those brackets (which are a thing of beauty), very skilled. Having spoken to him there's a good chance that I've a little etching project for him for Pencarrow. Looking forward to see how the fire escape goes together - no pressure ;- p I met Peter at a show (Warley* I think) and we had a quick chat - at that time I had finished the streetlights and platform trolleys. I found him to be both friendly and interested in what I had done with his brass parts. If he does some work for you you won't be disappointed. Chaz Edit - *Sue tells me it was at Guildex in Telford last year. Edited May 16, 2015 by chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) On the home straight with the tube.... Putting on the last of the WM castings, the door controllers (yes I know the wagon doesn't have doors - it's half the side that drops down) , the works plates and the label clip - but first some tinning with 145..... The photo above highlights just how difficult it is easy to put just enough solder on. Here I had cut an absolutely minimal shaving off a reel of 145 but it still proved too much! Look closely at the photo above and you can see a line of bolt heads that have been etched on the strapping, one of which is going to be under the top bracket of the door controller. I was going to file these off but then realised that I could use them to help me to position the door controllers. This is what I did... Put the casting in position and then twist it slightly from side to side turning the casting over reveal a scratch in the back surface where the etched bolt head rubbed with a pin-chuck drill a 0.6mm hole in the centre of the scratch - the hole only needs to be deep enough to accommodate the bolt head Soldering the casting in place was now a little easier. Holding it in position with my thumb on the top section with the hole located on the etched bolt I soldered the bottom section of it to solebar. This joint held the casting in place and the upper bracket could now be soldered. I added the solder to the section of the strapping immediately above the casting using plenty of flux to carry it under the casting. Provided there is plenty of flux and heat to boil it the solder runs like water and seems to "want" to go into the joint - which is certainly where we want it. One side done BUT the door controllers project outwards so will be vulnerable if we just turn the wagon over to do the other side. A couple of bits of carefully positioned pine to lift the wagon off the bench does the trick. I was about to crow that I have finished the build and the paint shop is next and then I remembered the chains*..... Ho Hum. A small job but probably tomorrow.... Chaz edit - *and the brake pipes! Edited May 16, 2015 by chaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) For the fire escape Peter Harvey sent me a PDF with two very helpful drawings. The first is a dimensioned elevation showing the layout. This is based on my sketches but tightened up and will make an excellent basis for setting up the wall on which the fire escape will fit. The second drawing is a useful key to show how the parts that Peter has designed will fit together. I obviously don't need a set of instructions but this drawing will be just the job in identifying parts, some of which are only slightly different. I don't think I can hold off making a start on this model - some progress this evening? - WTS Chaz Edited May 16, 2015 by chaz 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) This evening I started work on the fire escape. Looking for a job I could get done in a couple of hours I decided to make up the brackets (or some of them at least). There are two sizes of bracket in the set... ...and there are the parts. I need four of the large brackets and two of the small. I started each bracket by soldering the top flange in place. As the main body of each bracket has tabs that project through slots in the top I drilled some holes in a piece of MDF to allow me to press the joint together on a flat surface. Above is a photo of a small bracket about to have its top soldered. It's sitting on the drilled MDF so it can be gently pressed down to keep the joint in contact. Between the bracket and the five pence piece are two tiny pieces of 145 solder, cut from a reel of solder wire with a Stanley knife. Plenty of solder for this joint - I don't want to have any excess on the nicely etched decorative plate - almost impossible to clean up. Above are the first two brackets. All the soldering on the brackets was done with the work held by hand. With such small workpieces this works fine, and without singed fingers - provided you work quickly and don't dwell too long. And here's my evening's work with just a good wash needed to finish. A few observations... Looking at the lower of the two small brackets in the photo above I think it might need replacing - the back looks rather misplaced. Fortunately I have spares I can make up. The right angles of the flanges (edging?) on the body of the brackets must be set by eye. They are only a couple of mill' wide and an engineer's square is of little use. MDF proved a poor choice of material to work on. Hot liquid soldering flux caused the top surface to swell unevenly and I had to use a coarse nail-board to flatten it a couple of times. A few of the edging parts have fret tabs which I left to be file off later. These will be easier to remove with the parts soldered. That's all for now - I am zonked! Edited May 17, 2015 by chaz 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted May 17, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 17, 2015 I said you were pretty nifty, nice work. MDF always seems like a good idea but it does have a lot of issues. I wonder if the green moisture resistant stuff is any better (having some bits left overfrom bulding work) Don 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) Looking at the brackets in the cold light of day I am wondering whether I should add more solder to produce a curved fillet along the joints to better represent a casting? I'm not at all sure - there is the risk that the attempt will cause the existing work to come adrift and it has to be admitted that the difference will be small - is life too short? I might have a go, making up one of the spares and see a) how much extra work is involved and whether the improvement is evident and justifies the extra effort. Chaz Edited May 18, 2015 by chaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherKay Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I think I'd be tempted to leave well alone, Chas. the real thing would be caked in that black bituminous paint, so a heavy dose of Matt black when you're finished will probably suffice. I'm looking forward to seeing how this progresses. =o) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 I think I'd be tempted to leave well alone, Chas. the real thing would be caked in that black bituminous paint, so a heavy dose of Matt black when you're finished will probably suffice. I'm looking forward to seeing how this progresses. =o) Thanks for that Heather. I do have enough parts to make up a spare bracket or two so I could experiment without putting what I have done at risk - all it will take is a little more time. Chaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 I said you were pretty nifty, nice work. MDF always seems like a good idea but it does have a lot of issues. I wonder if the green moisture resistant stuff is any better (having some bits left overfrom bulding work) Don Problems with MDF? Quite so, but the totally flat surface and lack of any grain plus the poor heat transfer makes it very attractive for soldering jigs. On reflection what I should have done is drill a lot more holes so that as soon as the surface bulged I could move on to a different set. Chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) I think my next job is to solder the stiffening strips to the underside of the stair treads - should be straightforward but it will be essential that the ends line up accurately if the stairs are to make up neatly. And then I need to make up either the wall or a temporary wall onto which the model can be built. This will involve transferring all the dimensions from Peter's drawing so that the various parts can be assembled together accurately. Everything I need is on the drawing and I am confident (my confidence based on the accuracy of other etches Peter has made for me) that if I lay it all out to these measurements the parts will come together correctly. (Although I do doubt my ability to mark the job out to two places of decimals - hundredths of a millimetre? What are they?) I have said before that I am planning to make the wall out of two layers of thick card, spaced apart by square section wood. The front will be faced with brick sheet - the rest of the buildings on Dock Green have SE Finecast HIP vacuum-formed (?) brick sheet and I am inclined to use this again - although I could go for an embossed printed card - this would have the merit of being fixable with PVA. Or - what about finishing the factory to look like the dirty concrete temporary view blocker that might yet do one more show - tempting! Would give a bit of variety and is less work - I only need paint the card, no bits of brick sheet to fit in and around the windows and doors. The sandwich approach should make a very stable structure and will make the window openings easier to deal with. Sections of the square wood will be placed in position so that I am not relying on holes in card alone to support the brackets. Two 0.7mm NS wires will be soldered into the brackets and will pass through the wall. On the back of the wall the wires will be soldered into a washer plate. Chaz PS - I have checked with Peter that he is happy for me to post stuff like the drawing on the forum - it is otherwise copyright. Edited May 18, 2015 by chaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Chaz The only thing I would of done be to run a file around the outer edge of each of the brackets just to remove the cusp on the edge. You have spares you have some practice pieces. Good Progress. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Chaz The only thing I would of done be to run a file around the outer edge of each of the brackets just to remove the cusp on the edge. You have spares you have some practice pieces. Good Progress. Pete AH - OOPS - I didn't do that as I didn't want to interfere with the fit! I should have checked with you. I will have a go at an improved set later. As you say I have enough spares to make a second set. Chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 The sort of job where it's best to just pick up the tools and go for it...... On the left the stair treads and the stiffeners - 44 of them - with the tabs trimmed off and ready to be soldered. On the right the second set of bracket parts. I am going to follow Peter Harvey's suggestion and file off the etch-cusp on one of these and solder it up. If it turns out nicer than the others I did I will do all six and put the first batch on one side. Here's a close-up of a stair tread and the stiffener... these are etched in 0.22mm brass (that's 8 thou' if you still "think imperial" ) so they are best trimmed with a sharp pair of tinsnips. If I did need a file to finish off I used a genuine Swiss No. 4 grade needle file. Most needle file sets are No. 2 grade which is a bit too coarse for such fine work - the last thing needed is for the file to snatch and buckle the job. I sat down with the tinsnips and worked my way through the fret freeing and then trimming the parts, with Mahler's magnificent "Resurrection" symphony on the CD player. I have to solder the stiffeners into that half-etch groove in the underside of the tread plates. As there are 44 of them to do it's definitely going to be worth making some sort of jig to help hold the two parts at right angles and in line. Chaz 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSnapper Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 . ....... I sat down with the tinsnips and worked my way through the fret freeing and then trimming the parts, with Mahler's magnificent "Resurrection" symphony on the CD player....... Hi Chaz I bet you had to put down the tinsnips for the last 5 minutes....! Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 Hi Chaz I bet you had to put down the tinsnips for the last 5 minutes....! Tim Well yes Tim. Simon Rattle and the Birmingham SO! In my little workroom he rattled (sorry) the windows. My first choice will always be Otto Klemperer but Rattle's performance and recording are superb. Chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSnapper Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 ........... Rattle's performance and recording are superb............. Totally agree. I prefer it to his later Berlin Phil recording. Sorry, we digress.......... Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) Just a bit tricky. Yesterday I assembled the first flight of steps. First tread being soldered to the side rail... Wood offcut with a (checked) square edge and with pencil lines (yes they are there!) to help get the tread square. Brass fret offcuts to hold the wood flat across the side rail.Second tread soldered in... And then (I forgot to take a snap) I put the second side rail in place with the assembly flat and tacked it in place. The third tread sprung into place and ready to solder. At this stage I used tiny amounts of solder to avoid clogging the half-etched recess for the strengthening strips.Next snap shows most of the treads in place and the first three strengthening strips added. As these are thin and narrow they spring into place with a bit of twisting and pushing with tweezers, clicking into the etched recesses in a most satisfying way (thanks to Peter's accurate design). To finish things off I went over all the soldered joints, adding a bit more solder and paying particular attention to the joints to the side rails. Top view. One down, three to go! Chaz PS - listened to a couple of Wilhelm Kempff's recordings of Beethoven piano sonatas while I did this work Edited May 22, 2015 by chaz 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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