Dtwo Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I have two N scale locos that I would like to repaint into Florida's Tri-Rail present livery. I have a set of Microscale decals to finish off the locos. However, I need to start painting. The decal's instructions say to use Conrail blue. I have gone as far as I can without painting, so now I need to know what colours, sorry, colors to use. For the white, I was thinking either NSE silver white or reefer white, but for the blue I'm not so sure. Looking at the photos I've found, Conrail blue doesn't seem quite light/bright enough. Does anyone have any suggestions for alternatives available on this side of the Atlantic. For anyone not familiar with Tri-Rail here's a few links to show what I'm after:- EMD GP49H-3: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=144687&nseq=52 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=156040&nseq=47 EMD F40PH: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=27765&nseq=93 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=44797&nseq=78 For the GP49 I am using a GP40-2. I know that a GP40-2 isn't 100% correct, but they do look very similar. For the F40PH, I am using the Kato model. However, I cannot work out how to remove the cab windows. Has anyone have any idea how to remove the glass from this model? Thanks for your help. David S. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEngineShed Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 The shade of blue looks like the Rock Island's "Bankruptcy Blue". That color has been described as Caribbean blue, so that might be a direction you want to research into... If you catch the units whenh the sun is low, and you don't overexpose, the blue does look darker and closer to Conrail's shade: http://www.railpictu...d=8637&nseq=105 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigZ Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 On the 39 I'd use a Rock Island style blue; the F40s something more like a Conrail blue. If you can get a hold of a GP50 you'll get the extra-tall radiator grills. The 49s are oddballs anyway - they started life as Southern Railway GP39Xs, got modified at EMD into GP49s, then sold to TriRail and chopnosed and kitbashed into what you see there. The tall grills and the extra intakes down low on the walkway would get you the main effect of a TriRail GP49. The shorter grill of the GP40-2 will look odd with extra space between the top of the strip and the bottom of the grill. But...did anybody do a GP50 in N scale? And just for fun, some pix of the 49s in their Southern days...Southern tended to run 'em in matched sets...and long hood forward like God and nature intended! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbonnetuk Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 David From a quick look at the pic of the GP and a comparison to the PollyScale colour chart on Model Junction's website, Great Northern Sky Blue looks a reasonable match According to the website Model Junction have that particular colour in stock Cheers Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtwo Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 On the 39 I'd use a Rock Island style blue; the F40s something more like a Conrail blue. If you can get a hold of a GP50 you'll get the extra-tall radiator grills. The 49s are oddballs anyway - they started life as Southern Railway GP39Xs, got modified at EMD into GP49s, then sold to TriRail and chopnosed and kitbashed into what you see there. The tall grills and the extra intakes down low on the walkway would get you the main effect of a TriRail GP49. The shorter grill of the GP40-2 will look odd with extra space between the top of the strip and the bottom of the grill. But...did anybody do a GP50 in N scale? And just for fun, some pix of the 49s in their Southern days...Southern tended to run 'em in matched sets...and long hood forward like God and nature intended! Thanks for pointing out the different sized grills. It's something that I hadn't noticed, and you're right it will be quite noticeably different to the way it should. I shall have to look in my spares boxes to see if there's anything I can use. Kato produced a GP50 sometime ago. I found a couple on eBay and the box looked like one of the earliest Kato productions, but they're not cheap, especially when the tax and shipping are added. Thanks for the pictures of the GP49s as they were originally. They are very different today, even if you forget about the high and low nose. I was quite surprised when I recently found out that the Southern's diesels were built with the long nose as the front of the loco. I have a soft spot for the US Southern because I was born and brought up around its namesake in Britain, and my dad actually started his railway career on the Southern Railway (just), in 1947. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtwo Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 David From a quick look at the pic of the GP and a comparison to the PollyScale colour chart on Model Junction's website, Great Northern Sky Blue looks a reasonable match According to the website Model Junction have that particular colour in stock Cheers Dan Thanks, Dan. I shall definatly try the Great Northern Sky Blue. I received a reply from Model junction today saying that they're expecting their next full re-stock of these paints will be about 6-8 weeks away. So I'll probably get the Conrail blue too when they're restocked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted July 3, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 3, 2012 I am pretty sure I used Railmatch ENglisg China Clay blue to touch up my Athearn GP39 in Tri Rail livery. Will it the loco out and the paint in next day or two when I get chance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I have an F40 in pieces at home (it was on its way to becoming an erzatz VIA F40, but may end up in GO colours). I'll try and remember to take a look at it tonight. I do remember it being a bit complicated to disassemble. Bachmann have done a 'trainset' psuedo-GP50 that is still available and if accurate could potentially be used as a kitbash (it's a high-nose), but whether it is accurate is another question. I have one of those at home too, so I'll look. You can check for yourself here: http://www.visi.com/...4&Submit=Submit Edit: I may actually have a Kato GP50 shell somewhere - I'll check for that too (although shipping from Canada may be prohibitive anyway). Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I was quite surprised when I recently found out that the Southern's diesels were built with the long nose as the front of the loco. A lot of railways specified the long nose as the front for their first-gen diesels (it was a holdover from the steamers). I think Trainmasters were probably the only major ones that weren't set up that way. By the time the second-gen diesels came around there were only a few holdouts like the Southern. Even the 'Standard Railway of the World'* had stopped going its own way by then. *PRR - of course it was in financial difficulties and not long for the world by then... Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigZ Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 A lot of railways specified the long nose as the front for their first-gen diesels (it was a holdover from the steamers). I think Trainmasters were probably the only major ones that weren't set up that way. By the time the second-gen diesels came around there were only a few holdouts like the Southern. Even the 'Standard Railway of the World'* had stopped going its own way by then. *PRR - of course it was in financial difficulties and not long for the world by then... Adrian Even stranger....the GP7s and GP9s bought new by the Southern were designated short hood front. The RS2s and RS3s were long hood front. The Southern's GP30s were short hood front. Only with the GP35s did the Southern start designating long hood front...weird. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Ok, disassembling the Kato F40PH: The rear glazing is one piece, held in by the light guide. With the shell upside-down, lift the forward end of the light guide and its frame. This wil allow it to clear the two pins in the roof that hold it in place. Pull it back to remove it. This will reveal the single piece rear glazing that then needs to be sprung past the vertical ribs on the sides that hold it in place. The front glazing is a little trickier. Again, the light guide frame is the key. There are two pins near the front of it that engage in depressions in the glazing on the sides. Spread the shell sides while pushing back on the light guide frame. This should slide back and come free with the headlight guide and the number board guides attached to it. It has to slide straight back as it is trapped by the top of the glazing parts. Once it is free the two glazing parts can be removed by levering the rear away from the sides and then by pulling back. Replacing is the reverse - start by sliding the windshield through the front of the shell (from inside) and then rotate until the side windows engage. BTW. I do have a surplus Kato GP50 shell (non-dynamic brake version) Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtwo Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 I am pretty sure I used Railmatch ENglisg China Clay blue to touch up my Athearn GP39 in Tri Rail livery. Will it the loco out and the paint in next day or two when I get chance Thanks, that's great! I'll pop over to Alton soon and get some. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtwo Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Ok, disassembling the Kato F40PH: The rear glazing is one piece, held in by the light guide. With the shell upside-down, lift the forward end of the light guide and its frame. This wil allow it to clear the two pins in the roof that hold it in place. Pull it back to remove it. This will reveal the single piece rear glazing that then needs to be sprung past the vertical ribs on the sides that hold it in place. The front glazing is a little trickier. Again, the light guide frame is the key. There are two pins near the front of it that engage in depressions in the glazing on the sides. Spread the shell sides while pushing back on the light guide frame. This should slide back and come free with the headlight guide and the number board guides attached to it. It has to slide straight back as it is trapped by the top of the glazing parts. Once it is free the two glazing parts can be removed by levering the rear away from the sides and then by pulling back. Replacing is the reverse - start by sliding the windshield through the front of the shell (from inside) and then rotate until the side windows engage. BTW. I do have a surplus Kato GP50 shell (non-dynamic brake version) Adrian Hi Adrian, Thanks for the help with getting the F40 apart. I shall attempt it soon. I have just ordered a GP50 body from Kato's website along with some other items I needed. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtwo Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 If you can get a hold of a GP50 you'll get the extra-tall radiator grills. The 49s are oddballs anyway - they started life as Southern Railway GP39Xs, got modified at EMD into GP49s, then sold to TriRail and chopnosed and kitbashed into what you see there. The tall grills and the extra intakes down low on the walkway would get you the main effect of a TriRail GP49. The shorter grill of the GP40-2 will look odd with extra space between the top of the strip and the bottom of the grill. But...did anybody do a GP50 in N scale? Hi Craig, Following your advice regarding the grills, I have obtained a GP50 shell only (no cab, walkway etc), without dynamic brakes, from Kato (excellent spares dept too). What would you advise the best course of action for replacing the grills on the GP40 body should be? I have thought about replacing just the grills, but then as I'd lose part of each of the access doors under the original grills I could replace them with BLMA's Diesel Locomotive Hood Doors, which also includes some small grills I which could be used for the extra intakes. Or, I could replace the entire side from the grills down, but I thought that may weaken the body too much. I did think about replacing the entire end too, bit that may not be all that strong either and fixing the body to the walkway could be a problem too. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigZ Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Is the GP50 body a better place to start? Can it be made to fit the GP40-2 mechanism? Or just the long hood from the cab back? Otherwise my personal attack would be to cut the grills out of the GP50, file/sand them thin, drill out the GP40-2 grills, shave down the door tops a bit, and lay the GP50 grills over top of the openings... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtwo Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 Is the GP50 body a better place to start? I thought it could be at first, but unfortunately it's slightly longer than the GP40-2 body. Can it be made to fit the GP40-2 mechanism? Possibly, if I had a complete body, with the cab & walkway etc. Or just the long hood from the cab back? I thought about this too, however, just from the dynamic brake bulge back, as the GP50 has none. But, to me, the fan grills on the GP40 body look better. Otherwise my personal attack would be to cut the grills out of the GP50, file/sand them thin, drill out the GP40-2 grills, shave down the door tops a bit, and lay the GP50 grills over top of the openings... This is what thought would probably be the best option. While writing this post I checked the two bodies again and I noticed that the GP50 body is about a millimetre or so wider than the GP40. I'm glad I started this thread as I've got the answers I was after, which is the point! But, I've also learnt things I didn't even consider, like the grills. I realise that using a GP40-2 still won't be 100% accurate, but with the new grills and a close approximation to the correct blue hopefully, it'll look more or less right and how many people on this side of the Atlantic will notice? (apart from everyone on this forum of course ) I think that I might wait to start the F40PH though. Kato are about to release a new commuter train version of the F40PH with new tooling for additions like ditch lights and roof mounted air conditioners. So I'm hoping that they'll release more undecorated bodies. ( http://www.katousa.c...40PH/index.html ) David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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