Ashton Meadows Bristol to Wapping Wharf: Info and pics needed for operations in the 1970s until closure

[Devonbelle]

What a great thread. I chased the coal working in 1985 when Western Pride the 0-6-0 Hudswell Clarke used to work what was then HEA air braked coal hoppers. I recollect from the start of my railway career that some mornings a class 45 peak would be waiting at Parson St to head round the corner to Ashton JN, as my train to work a Taunton BTM loco and coaches headed on the up line. Two years earlier the Hudswell broke down and for 3 weeks Henbury the 0-6-0 saddle tank hauled the wagons Ashton JN to Wapping wharf and it was then replaced for a short while by a Port of Bristol authority sentinel 0-6-0 - without delving into diary I think it was number 39 - I bunked off school to see Henbury going along the cut - at high tide because of the unstable wall.

 

I went on a school trip to see the SS Great Britain in summer 1976 and an 08 was shunting HTV wagons on the quayside.

 

The coal traffic to Wapping finished in May 1987 and one night thereafter Western Pride went under its own power to the coal depot at Filton JN -my father John (well known to Rivercider) planned the move. Thereafter the civil engineers traffic ran to Ashton Gate until 1990, a DCE class 50 would sometimes work the tunnel inspection train, to and from the depot at Ashton Gate which was a motley collection of wagons, lowtrols with extractor fans etc. The very last BR train to Wapping Wharf was in about August or Sept 1990, I published it on the Brustol Area Engineering Train Notice and involved a class 08 shunter and some ganes, used to collect rails from the Wharf. The move also conveyed a bogie weltrol wagon for the industrial museum. The junction at Ashton Gate came out in 2001 when the Portishead brach was rebuilt, there wasn't a business case to leave a junction in, plus additional cost of new signalling.

 

Love Riverciders and Eggesford box photies - they bring back many happy memories.

 

Paul

 

 

[roundhouse]

I just remembered that when I travelled on the GWR 150 services to Portishead in 1985, I took these shots.

[Rivercider]

Imperial Smelting Corporation? These were the people who had the smelter off Smoke Lane in Avonmouth, which generated quite a bit of rail traffic in the 1970s.

 

I don't think so in this instance Brian, there were to be 3 Offices in the area, Bristol West, Bristol East, and Avonmouth,

but only 2 actually opened, Avonmouth and Bristol Temple Meads.

 

In the event 'TOPS' Offices were officially known as Area Freight Centres, but I think one of the suggested names was

'Input/Output Centre', so perhaps I.S.C. could have stood for 'Input/Output Supply Centre'?

Perhaps Mike (Stationmaster) may have had dealings with them in the early 70s

 

cheers

[Devonbelle]

Slightly off topic, but involving Ashton JN, seeing Riverciders shots of then SB at Ashton JN, it was gas lit until it closed, I did a box visit in 1990 and saw the gas lighting pointed out by Jim Barnes the Area Signalling Inspector.

 

Finally on the last day of the Portishead steam specials, a Sunday in September 1985 the signalman put a detonator down for every year the line was open (upto 85) as the little Ivatt 46443 came up from Ashton JN with a staggering load 8 on - I worked in Bristol Travel Centre and pass numbers on the steam specials had risen through the summer, so from what started load 5, at the start if the season in May 85 ended up load 8!

 

Paul

[The Stationmaster]

I don't think so in this instance Brian, there were to be 3 Offices in the area, Bristol West, Bristol East, and Avonmouth,

but only 2 actually opened, Avonmouth and Bristol Temple Meads.

 

In the event 'TOPS' Offices were officially known as Area Freight Centres, but I think one of the suggested names was

'Input/Output Centre', so perhaps I.S.C. could have stood for 'Input/Output Supply Centre'?

Perhaps Mike (Stationmaster) may have had dealings with them in the early 70s

cheers

Far too much! I was an Asst A.M. at one of the two W.R. trial sites and then moved to another area following the 'Field' Reorganisation only to find a few that we were in the midst of setting up our TOPS office and then moving on to cut-over (in mid 1974). I never came across the term ISC in connection with TOPs and it could well be some sort of thing that Baynton Hughes (the WR TOPS Project Manager) had come up with or his assistant. I know there were references to things like Terminal Areas and various other terms and sets of initials which seemed to change every time there was another meeting. If anything I suspect ISC was probably something to do with field reporting (to the local TOPS office) as the idea of those maps etc was to show where reports would be made from and what they were covering in order to help establish communications requirements and calculate the TOPS office staffing.

 

But at implementation they were always referred to as TOPS offices (the term AFC came along sometime later).

[Rivercider]

Thanks Mike, perhaps it means, 'Industrial Service Centre' .

 

Anyway, whatever it means, it it is clear that there was enough freight traffic in 1972 in the Bristol West Depot,

Ashton Meadows, Wapping Wharf, Portishead area to justify the planning for its setting up its own TOPS office.

Traffic levels must have been in decline in the Bristol Area then though, as the 2 planned Bristol offices became just 1 on implementation.

 

cheers

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks Mike, perhaps it means, 'Industrial Service Centre' .

Anyway, whatever it means, it it is clear that there was enough freight traffic in 1972 in the Bristol West Depot,

Ashton Meadows, Wapping Wharf, Portishead area to justify the planning for its setting up its own TOPS office.

Traffic levels must have been in decline in the Bristol Area then though, as the 2 planned Bristol offices became just 1 on implementation.

cheers

Several things changed after 1972. The first one was the technical change to using different terminals (the originals were Ventek and looked similar to those in the pic of Bristol TOPS office you posted earlier in this thread) - these machines were much faster than the original IBM kit for doing things like shunt lists so, in effect, they increased the productivity levels of the clerks if there was a lot of that kind of work.

 

But the real decider was the number of wagons per day through the office's area and that almost certainly declined before the Bristol plans were finalised although again experience with the two WR trial sites showed that staff were capable of a far higher workload than some of the early estimates had suggested would be the case (possibly also because of a difference between US and UK working practices?).

[Andy Kirkham]

Andy,

I presume that large building is the Wills Tobacco Warehouse? If so, what is the light-coloured building with much bigger windows that appears in some of the other shots?

 

I think all those big buildings were tobacco warehouses. The brick ones are still there (one is used as the city records office) but the concrete ones have all been demolished.

[Richard E]

Absolutely correct regarding the bonded warehouses although not all were tobacco, some were originally for sherry and tea. I believe those in the pictures were all tobacco however. I recall when some were still in use for tobacco in the 60's.

 

Never knew the name of the depot but used to pass it twice a day. Always wondered what went on there though.

Edited July 20, 2012 by Richard E

[Rivercider]

Paul,

have you seen the Middleton Press book 'Branchlines to Clevedon and Portishead' by Mitchell and Smith?

There is a section on the Bristol Harbour Lines, which will be useful to you although the map of Ashton Meadows

is from 1918 which obviously does not show the Engineers depot and additional sidings.

 

The book has useful info for Wapping Wharf, Western Fuel Co. took over the operating of the

line from Ashton Meadows from 26/8/77.

 

I have found one instamatic picture I took of the ex PBA pilot at Wapping

Western Fuels ex PBA 0-6-0 D1171 standing at Wapping Wharf, 17/7/79

 

cheers

Edited July 20, 2012 by Rivercider

[Devonbelle]

Cracking shot by Kevin (Rivercider). I'll send the link, with your lovely shots of the loco to the present day owner of the Hudswell Clarke loco - it presently resides at Long Marston.

 

I walked back from the balloon fiesta this evening (too windy to launch any) - the buildings of the Ashton Gate CCE Depot are pretty well intact - there's a newly upgraded cycle/walkway alongside. Then walked down alongside the line to Wapping Wharf, telling my son aside from the Hudswell Clarke, a Black 5 (5000) ventured down here in 1983 and a class 37, plus of course Ivatt 46443 in 1985 along with Peckett 'Henbury' and Avonside 'Portbury' being regulars over the last 15 years.

 

Paul

[rob D2]

Did the loco take loaded coal elsewhere after dropping off those for wapping ? Ive seen 2 pictures of 37s leaving the exchange sidings with loaded HTVs

[Rivercider]

I do not recall an instance of loaded coal leaving Ashton Meadows.

The other local CCD at Filton was always served by its own service from Severn Tunnel Junction, (later from Stoke Gifford).

 

There was however a period when the train from Severn Tunnel Junction was permitted, if traffic requirements dictated,

to be marshalled with a short portion ( up to about 12 SLUs), for either Lawrence Hill or Kingsland Road which after arrival

at Ashton Meadows was tripped back up as required, it is just possible that traffic for Filton was worked this way.

 

The other possible explanation would be that due to the structural problem with the wall on the route to Wapping

if traffic was sent from Severn Tunnel and was unable to be accepted into Wapping it would have to be returned to somewhere secure,

as to leave it overnight or over the weekend at Ashton Meadow could mean the doors would be dropped.

 

cheers

[rob D2]

Ah right OK that makes sense.

It was a CF class 37, so I guess that would be from STJ ? Not from somewhere else.

[Fat Controller]

I do not recall an instance of loaded coal leaving Ashton Meadows.

The other local CCD at Filton was always served by its own service from Severn Tunnel Junction, (later from Stoke Gifford).

 

There was however a period when the train from Severn Tunnel Junction was permitted, if traffic requirements dictated,

to be marshalled with a short portion ( up to about 12 SLUs), for either Lawrence Hill or Kingsland Road which after arrival

at Ashton Meadows was tripped back up as required, it is just possible that traffic for Filton was worked this way.

 

The other possible explanation would be that due to the structural problem with the wall on the route to Wapping

if traffic was sent from Severn Tunnel and was unable to be accepted into Wapping it would have to be returned to somewhere secure,

as to leave it overnight or over the weekend at Ashton Meadow could mean the doors would be dropped.

 

cheers

I didn't know they used Kingsland Road for coal traffic- I thought that was the Full Loads Terminal.

[Rivercider]

 

 

I didn't know they used Kingsland Road for coal traffic- I thought that was the Full Loads Terminal.

Sorry Brian, I was not making myself clear there, I did not mean coal traffic, but any ordinary traffic that was left off an earlier service.
If there was room on the Ashton Junction train and Severn Tunnnel Junction Yard had surplus or urgent ordinary traffic for either Lawrence Hill or Kingsland Road left over from the early morning service then they could attach a short portion to the coal train, this was in the 1980s by which time the train was running fully fitted.

One friday in July 1981 there were a couple of wagons to come back to Lawrence Hill, we had a call from the Signalman at Ashton Junction to say that the Mercedes loaded on the rear wagon appeared to have had a rough shunt somewhere, so I went onto the platform at Temple Meads when it came through to take a picture...

Oops!

37178 works a trip from Ashton Junction to Lawrence Hill through Temple Meads, 3/7/81

cheers Edited October 16, 2016 by Rivercider

[HillsideDepot]

These are 4 relevant pages copied from the 'BR TOPS PRE-IMPLEMENTATION SURVEY' August 72 Edition

Bristol West Depot Yard & I.S.C. (What does I.S.C. stand for?)

 

 

 

Bristol Wapping Wharf

scan0071.jpg

 

P.B.A Princes Wharf/Bathurst Wharf P.S.

scan0072.jpg

 

 

cheers

 

I find this thread especially fascinating as it includes internal railway operating documents (as well as being about locations I just about saw working).

 

Inspired by the Chapeltown Loop thread I am now looking at creating TOPS Pre-Implementation Survey type documents for terminals served from the yard on my layout as part of a traffic generation system. However there are a few queries regarding some of the abbreviations. 

 

On the Bristol Wapping Wharf document point 5 is headed F.R.S. - what does that stand for, please? The F.R.S. return is complied by the Supervisor, so I take it that it is a report, and it is telephoned to A.M.O and D.M.O. (F.R.S.). Would that be Area Movements Office and Divisional Movements Office?

 

None of this affects the operation of my model, of course, but having all this background adds so much, in my view. These documents, and the Trip Diagrams further up the thread, really open a window into the workings of the 1970's railway. Thank you for treating us, Kevin (Rivercider).

[Rivercider]

I find this thread especially fascinating as it includes internal railway operating documents (as well as being about locations I just about saw working).

 

Inspired by the Chapeltown Loop thread I am now looking at creating TOPS Pre-Implementation Survey type documents for terminals served from the yard on my layout as part of a traffic generation system. However there are a few queries regarding some of the abbreviations. 

 

On the Bristol Wapping Wharf document point 5 is headed F.R.S. - what does that stand for, please? The F.R.S. return is complied by the Supervisor, so I take it that it is a report, and it is telephoned to A.M.O and D.M.O. (F.R.S.). Would that be Area Movements Office and Divisional Movements Office?

 

None of this affects the operation of my model, of course, but having all this background adds so much, in my view. These documents, and the Trip Diagrams further up the thread, really open a window into the workings of the 1970's railway. Thank you for treating us, Kevin (Rivercider).

In this context F.R.S. would mean Freight Rolling Stock, a daily report would be made out and telephoned to the A.M.O. (Area Managers Office) Bristol, and the D.M.O. (Divisional Managers Office) Bristol. The Bristol D.M.O. Rolling Stock clerk (or section) were located in the Control Office in the Bristol and Exeter Building at Temple Meads, know known as Bristol and Exeter House. 

Bristol being headquarters of the West of England Division had a Divisional Managers Office as well as the local Area Manager.

Around that time the other Area Managers in the West of England Division were at Worcester, Gloucester, Swindon, Westbury, Taunton, Exeter, Plymouth and Truro I think.

Therre would have been others in the past but they were gradually being closed or amalgamated.

 

This is all slightly before my time ,I started in 1977 when TOPS was already 3 or 4 years old, but many of the staff were still in place in 1977.

 

cheers

[HillsideDepot]

Thanks Kevin, that fills in a more few gaps in my knowledge.

[philwaglab]

Coal traffic out of Wapping Wharf was usually coal duff which was as a result of screening at the CCD.This went to Uskmouth Power Station a few times a year.

[Corbs]

Wow! Seeing these pictures show what a change the area has gone through in the last few years. 

 

I've just this week moved in to one of the flats built adjacent to the site of Ashton Meadows sidings (To the left of the 37 in the first photo posted by rivercider).

By way of comparison, here is the view from my back door. The sidings area was levelled for use by the construction equipment and site office. The line of shrubs on the other side of the clearing indicate where the platform face still is.

 

I have posted more photos and video of the area on the BHR blog - http://www.bristolharbourrailway.co.uk

(Including video of Ashton Avenue bridge and Ashton Meadows sidings in use by steam specials - taken by Ian Silvester)

Edited March 26, 2014 by Corbs

[Rivercider]

I have recently found this other photo on Flickr which shows Ashton Gate platform after closure,

in the background we can see part of Ashton Meadows sidings and the line leading towards Wapping Wharf with a class 08 visible in the 1970s

https://www.flickr.com/photos/10163027@N05/3555606312/in/photolist-6qcpT7-enhwEW-fPxGqz-G7awyC-DPS2vy-dso4zG-sbSoBM-rSAg8e-sbSvGZ-sbLX5f-reVk6L-s9CBzf-b1c7jH-95QFfk-b1c65H-b1c6BD-dfMPQp-e2xePo-6q8gh2-b1c71M-emS444-DiGz5P-CUN5rg-CUN9Hx-DSbNmg-hLSr4D-CUFfmw-DHVKrH-7ooKUo-6YDjb3-jkcVAy-fPxNm2-5Chdgu-q9Hg15-5PA8kw-c6TF2f-9t8VXz-nsvX6X-DHVQZ6-hhvXUE-hhkScf-c7EgP5-pYq1Vp-cQxwRu-pYf9g2-DHHKfz-dv523X-7rhCa-5PvS9i-5PvNda

 

 

And this view of the station in 1984 (for a Billy Graham special) in the background part of the Works Depot at Ashton Gate can be seen, and is that the weedspray train we can see in the depot?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-pelican-railways/24759663831/in/photolist-DHVKrH-7ooKUo-6YDjb3-jkcVAy-fPxNm2-5Chdgu-q9Hg15-5PA8kw-c6TF2f-9t8VXz-nsvX6X-DHVQZ6-hhvXUE-hhkScf-c7EgP5-pYq1Vp-cQxwRu-pYf9g2-DHHKfz-dv523X-7rhCa-5PvS9i-5PvNda-9AUBz5-9ARpG4-CnTy2K-vmTJRy-rCsycB-yXiKQ1-BHgzju-MBieRp-L4GJ1Y-LeSJRx-LcaZvN-Jpdh5S-wsCkQ8-sodfxu-sqfDv3-qbn1cM-kJyoYn-jRZ6Y6-jipZqo-hZ7qHj-hXXoDf-hLB1BA-ama4AK-9MZEo1-8E715f-82j9zA-787i8z/ 

 

 

edit - and another better view from 1977 with Ashton Meadows in the background, are they high-fits stood in front of the coal hoppers? (I think shoc-opens brought coil for the docks but they do not look right)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-pelican-railways/24826836406/in/photolist-DPS2vy-DHVKrH-pssCjq-mhH54N-nivwKm-bEoTsq-hhkCPz-58xU8H-bxsbDs-7iTx5q-6qcq9W-bLuuWT-hhkPvL-hhvXUE-p34LN8-snFtuM-95QFfk-hweBhW-dfMPQp-mMqkY4-e2xePo-fPxGqz-b1c71M-b1c6BD-hLSr4D-CUFfmw-6YDjb3-fPxNm2-c7EgP5-cQxwnG-BCYVyB-Je2hr6-7j1HrS-yEmdFo-qjeCeE-qqwnrK-4Uc4zc-eYL7Du-7iTx5m-q9Hg15-kDrGki-84oZSr-6z6Bc2-58dCkL-nsvX6X-9AUBz5-9t8VXz-vmTJRy-rCsycB-to2BCW

 

cheers

Edited October 16, 2016 by Rivercider

[The Stationmaster]

I have recently found this other photo on Flickr which shows Ashton Gate platform after closure,

in the background we can see part of Ashton Meadows sidings and the line leading towards Wapping Wharf with a class 08 visible in the 1970s

https://www.flickr.com/photos/10163027@N05/3555606312/in/photolist-6qcpT7-enhwEW-fPxGqz-G7awyC-DPS2vy-dso4zG-sbSoBM-rSAg8e-sbSvGZ-sbLX5f-reVk6L-s9CBzf-b1c7jH-95QFfk-b1c65H-b1c6BD-dfMPQp-e2xePo-6q8gh2-b1c71M-emS444-DiGz5P-CUN5rg-CUN9Hx-DSbNmg-hLSr4D-CUFfmw-DHVKrH-7ooKUo-6YDjb3-jkcVAy-fPxNm2-5Chdgu-q9Hg15-5PA8kw-c6TF2f-9t8VXz-nsvX6X-DHVQZ6-hhvXUE-hhkScf-c7EgP5-pYq1Vp-cQxwRu-pYf9g2-DHHKfz-dv523X-7rhCa-5PvS9i-5PvNda

 

 

And this view of the station in 1984 (for a Billy Graham special) in the background part of the Works Depot at Ashton Gate can be seen, and is that the weedspray train we can see in the depot?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-pelican-railways/24759663831/in/photolist-DHVKrH-7ooKUo-6YDjb3-jkcVAy-fPxNm2-5Chdgu-q9Hg15-5PA8kw-c6TF2f-9t8VXz-nsvX6X-DHVQZ6-hhvXUE-hhkScf-c7EgP5-pYq1Vp-cQxwRu-pYf9g2-DHHKfz-dv523X-7rhCa-5PvS9i-5PvNda-9AUBz5-9ARpG4-CnTy2K-vmTJRy-rCsycB-yXiKQ1-BHgzju-MBieRp-L4GJ1Y-LeSJRx-LcaZvN-Jpdh5S-wsCkQ8-sodfxu-sqfDv3-qbn1cM-kJyoYn-jRZ6Y6-jipZqo-hZ7qHj-hXXoDf-hLB1BA-ama4AK-9MZEo1-8E715f-82j9zA-787i8z/ 

 

 

edit - and another better view from 1977 with Ashton Meadows in the background, are they high-fits stood in front of the coal hoppers? (I think shoc-opens brought coil for the docks but they do not look right)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-pelican-railways/24826836406/in/photolist-DPS2vy-DHVKrH-pssCjq-mhH54N-nivwKm-bEoTsq-hhkCPz-58xU8H-bxsbDs-7iTx5q-6qcq9W-bLuuWT-hhkPvL-hhvXUE-p34LN8-snFtuM-95QFfk-hweBhW-dfMPQp-mMqkY4-e2xePo-fPxGqz-b1c71M-b1c6BD-hLSr4D-CUFfmw-6YDjb3-fPxNm2-c7EgP5-cQxwnG-BCYVyB-Je2hr6-7j1HrS-yEmdFo-qjeCeE-qqwnrK-4Uc4zc-eYL7Du-7iTx5m-q9Hg15-kDrGki-84oZSr-6z6Bc2-58dCkL-nsvX6X-9AUBz5-9t8VXz-vmTJRy-rCsycB-to2BCW

 

cheers

 

The nearest one looks like a Shockhood (i.e. shock open with a sheet rail) 

[philwaglab]

I remember meeting the chargeman at Wapping Wharf a few times........he was Jim Trudgeon.....a real gentleman.He did all the clerical work and removal of wagon labels.He also operated the weighbridge on site,one of only a few left in the country.The weighbridge was used mainly to check weigh coal into wapping Wharf for WFC,but he did weigh scrap enroute from the west country to their destination ie South Wales,the midlands etc

[philwaglab]

The nearest one looks like a Shockhood (i.e. shock open with a sheet rail) 

 

Yes shocks and highs brought in coil from Llanwern....usually sheeted