Great West Road - transfers & I’m not talking football!

[southern42]

Great Western Docks and Marine arrived in the post today.  With only a few pages on Brentford, I wasn't sure how beneficial it would be, especially once you get as far into BR days as 1961.

 

A quick browse and one bit jumped out - incoming Brentford traffic was sorted at Southall before going to the Dock and Goods depot.  I didn't know that, although I had been thinking along the lines of shunting a rake of wagons into a siding and changing locos.  Now, maybe, I can/should look a bit further into this.  So any ideas, knowledge, sources of info will be much appreciated. 

 

The current thinking is to redesign the track plan to fit one of our rooms - unfortunately, 12ft is just too long for home use.  The alternative is 2 x 4ft boards (end to end) at 90^o to 2 x 4ft boards.  So 8ft along one wall and10ft along the other and 2ft deep.  The footbridge will form a break between the two directions separating shed from branch platform. I am attempting to keep the same sort of layout, but it will be on the curve.   I'm trying out a few ideas in AnyRail to start with.   This will give me another opportunity to think about branch goods traffic, possibly blowing up dispensing with the coaling ramp to have a BR road round the back of the water tower into the diesel shed, and where to place an alternative coal stage.

 

I've got most of the stock I want, just one or two items on pre-order, like Swithland Hall to rename Burton Agnes Hall, Caerphilly for Pendennis Castle, and a couple of brake vans (latest news is April 2015 for the vans).  So after Camel Quay's outing next month, hopefully, I can put a bit more time in to get the track plan sorted.  I want to play trains.....

 

Polly

[steve fay]

SWD do a fantastic new black 5 sound chip, that along with their Brit are the best steam sounds I've heard

[southern42]

Barrow Hill Live

 

I just had to see this one.

 

While someone else made a beeline for the Midland 1F.

 

And because there will be brake van rides on GWRd, I thought it might be an idea if I tried it out for myself.

The brake vans.

 

Vulcan attached

 

at one end.

 

Peckett 2000 at the other.

 

And I can't forget 2011 GWRd visitor Tornado.

 

Some favourite scenes from the layouts.

 

 

This reminded me of the coal barges in the transfer shed at Brentford Dock.

 

Time to leave

 

passing WCRC 37669 which was acquired from DBS in March 2011 and is being restored to traffic by HNRC at Barrow Hill.

 

Back to modelling, now.

 

Polly

[Andrew P]

Great pics Polly, thanks, couldn't get there this year.

[7APT7]

Hi Ray & Polly

 

Hope you had a great day out, glad we bumped in to each other, I had a lovely weekend with family to at Barrow Hill andalso up on the ELR the next day...

 

I will sort of some photos for you...

 

Jamie 

[ChrisN]

Polly,

Which layout had the 'Dad's Army' Diorama?

[southern42]

Polly,

Which layout had the 'Dad's Army' Diorama?

Hi Chris.

 

The layout is Stodmarsh.

AndyY was operating it when we got to it and spoke at length about it, which made it even more special.

We also saw Stodmarsh at Butterley so feel somewhat spoilt.

 

Polly

[southern42]

Great pics Polly, thanks, couldn't get there this year.

 

Thanks, Andy.

I didn't take pics of many locos in the shed because light coming form doorways, skylights and windows made long shots quite difficult.  It was also difficult with various stands alongside.  There was a tall advertising poster standing right in front of GWR 5164. There was a bar between the Compound and 1F but it was possible to move until it was out of sight, though I did lose a bit of the Compound in doing so.  It was quite busy, so there were a few attempts to avoid passing people getting into the shot.

 

GWR 5164

 

Class 1F and Midland Compound

 

 

Hi Ray & Polly

 

Hope you had a great day out, glad we bumped in to each other, I had a lovely weekend with family to at Barrow Hill andalso up on the ELR the next day...

 

I will sort of some photos for you...

 

Jamie 

Hi Jamie,

Glad you had a good weekend.  It was a good day, wasn't it? Did you notice that the wall along the track leading to the train platform had been replaced with a fence?  We only noticed because we wandered over there to eat our lunch on the said wall. But it wasn't there. 

Also, no chimneys (demolished last December) or the English China Clays nameplate on the Class 37.    See here #32

 

Polly

[7APT7]

Hi Polly

 

Great photos, hope you enjoyed it as much as me, staying with family a bit longer as Seven Valley diesel gala starts tomorrow (Friday) till Sunday.

 

Will see you both soon hey, take care

 

Jamie

Edited October 2, 2014 by 7APT7

[southern42]

Hi Jamie,

 

Enjoy the Diesel Gala.  It's always a good day out on the SVR.  I've even got the T-shirt ready to wear for their 50th Anniversary next year.  Subtle - it just says 1965.  Love it.

 

A programme of events is on page 5 of this document which is handy for thinking about next year's outings:

http://www.svrlive.com/Documents/EXPRESS%20POINTS%2009.2014.pdf

 

Barrow Hill was great as usual.  The only decent photo I took was of the Class 66 which I posted on the Class "66" Photos thread .  Since I've got a couple of 66s already, as nice as it is, I don't think I'll be getting one in the GBRf livery very soon, especially as I'm currently concentrating on 1960s stock.

 

66753 on Class "66" Photos

Mine: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/73177-class-66-photosuk/page-20

More interesting ones by Wild Boar Fell: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/73177-class-66-photosuk/page-18

There may be others on here but I've not trawled back further than this.

 

And by the way.  We found a source of ALL BUTTER shortbreads on the way home from Barrow Hill at Chesterfield Station.  Yummy.  So we're now looking for a local stockist so you'll have to come round soon to help us eat the present stock, first.      

 

Polly

 

[Jaz]

Thank you for popping over to AV, and offering the weathering idea, I trailed it and am very happy with the result.

Which one of your threads are you doing the faces? I would be interested to see the developments.

[southern42]

Thank you for popping over to AV, and offering the weathering idea, I trailed it and am very happy with the result.

Which one of your threads are you doing the faces? I would be interested to see the developments.

 

Hi Jaz.  Thank you for popping in here.  I hope I wasn't being too forward with the weathering idea - I was delighted that your doors were so successful.  The trouble with paint is that it doesn't always do what you expect.  I'm doing the faces for workers on Camel Quay - I'll be an expert by the time Great West Road is ready for them. I hope.  

 

Anyway, your success has triggered some inspiration so I tried out a little something I thought of when I went to bed and had to remember when I woke up this morning.  It needs a modified re-make so if it turns out OK I'll post it on CQ along with the people.

 

Polly

[southern42]

Just to show I've not forgotten you all or GWRd.

 

One of my favourite GWR layouts was at Hazel Grove at the weekend.  So here are a few shots of Culm.  I recognised it as soon as I saw the 14xx and autocoaches in the fiddleyard as we approached!  

 

 

I took these three as I was surprised at how well the rather large trees work on such a small layout.

 

 

 

The trees makes this layout very intimate whereas on Camel Quay I've used small ones to give a sense of distance in the hope that it would make it look longer and deeper than it is.

 

On GWRd I envisage a row of poplar trees typical of the area but also something substantial along the branch line cutting to hide it's decent below ground, on the layout, to a sector plate, possibly.  The denseness and drama of the trees on Culm is something to bear in mind.

 

These trees are growing where the Southall steam railmotor shed used to be but the disappearing curve of the line is also apparent.

http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/zrailmotor93/shed/pictures/southall_04.html

 

Of course, every railway needs some life and Culm certainly is not devoid of that with lorry visible as you move along the layout, trains making an entrance over the crossing, and motorcyclist drawn to a halt on the bridge.

 

Saving my favourite till last, the railcar.

 

 

Hope this keeps you going for a bit while CQ takes my modelling time.

 

best wishes

Polly

 

Edit out repeated text. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by southern42

[southern42]

Hi all.

Acquisition 1  

 

Last weekend exhibiting at the Wirral Exhibition, Wallasey, with Camel Quay and the first trader inside the hall had an 8750 No. 9761.  This will become 9773 for the 1965 Thames Valley Tour, my other 9761 will become 9791 bringing 1961 empty goods wagons up the branch.  Just need a donor 61xx for 6106 (No. 6132) to accompany  9773.

 

Acquisition 2 

Today, in the post, Brentford Dock and Railway by Diana Willment (As New).  It won't look like that for long, I'm sure :-)  This is the first copy I've seen available since I started looking, so really excited.

 

A quick look and I find a section on a Shunter's recollections 1960-1962 (pp. 69-77) linking Southall - Brentford workings, goods, loco & dock crews. No useful info such as loco numbers(!), though, and not many train or loco photos in the book but there is a scattering of other interesting info. On the last page, a nice "red" 66 in 2001 on the front of a set of "green" coaches - some info is rather sparse!  Not to worry, we can read all about it on Six Bells Junction. 

http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/00s/010714hr.htm

 

The following info is mainly from the Shunter's section and is looked at from planning, stocking and operating the layout.

 

First train of the day: Depart Southall (no time stated but usual journey time is 18 minutes) - arrive Brentford 6.00am.

e.g., west of England broccoli destined for Brentford Market (by road from Brentford).

Some early morning ventilated vans, then.

 

Factories: Depart Southall a.m. empty - return p.m. loaded.

in the morning, empty wagons turned up at MacFarlane Lang's United Biscuits factory [yum, remember those!] and Firestone Tyres.

Midday, loaded wagons left Firestone for the Dock.

The evening train with Firestone wagons from the Dock stopped at Brentford.  The loco collected loaded wagons from MacFarlane Lang's, then the train carried on to Southall.

 

More ventilated vans.

Open / tarpaulin covered (?) wagons for Firestone and were they P.O. wagons or BR?

Question: At which end of the train were the biscuit wagons attached?

 

Coal:

Welsh coal: Depart Southall loaded - return empty.

Arrive at branch line from marshalling yards at Southall and Acton - Depart to Charrington's coal depot at Brentford Goods Yard.

 

There were also empty coal trains to Brentford and loaded ones to Southall, usually carrying coal for domestic use making for some variation on GWRd.

 

At the Dock: "coal-trucks" unloaded through the bottom of the wagon into boats with some normal wagons emptied by hand.

 

Question: Do models come with bottom doors or are there detailing kits or drawings to convert (relief work / outline that can be done on the inside of an empty wagon)?

Came across this via google: Bachmann 37-253B 16 Ton Steel Mineral Wagon BR Grey Weathered.

 

Imported scrap metal:

Arrive at Parry's scrap metal merchants in the Goods Yard.

 

Question: Wagon type for this?

Charrington's and Parry's P.O. wagons?

Some BR 21 ton hoppers carried the Charringtons livery but did any make it to Brentford? http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/7-fops/poops2.htm

Parry.  Is this the same as Parry, London?  http://www.robbiesrollingstock.co.uk/images/London_SE/Parry.gif

and did the wagons last into the 60s and make it to Brentford?

 

Other commodities:

Kellogs Cornflakes and condensed milk (Nestlé?) for starters.

 

Closure

Brentford Gas Works closed in1963.

Square tar wagons.  Were any associated with the Brentford Gas Works / seen on the branch line?

 

Brentford Dock axed by Beeching1964

So, no goods trains on GWRd branch line that coincide with the last Paddington run of Clun Castle or the appearance of Pendennis or Flying Scotsman (1965)!  The Thames Valley Tour will have that honour (if July is an appropriate month but I'm getting really picky now ;-)

 

Plenty to do to keep me going but if you have any answers or additional info, please feel free to post.

 

Thanks.

Polly

 

 

[emt_911]

Morning Polly

 

Unfortunately I don't have any answers or information. It looks like , with research, acquiring all the stock and detailing, you could be busy until this time next year. But it will be worth it.

[ChrisN]

Polly,

It is all coming together, that is good.

 

PO wagons.  Were they not all got rid of by BR or earlier as they made the railways inefficient with empty wagons going back from whence they came?

 

Biscuits.  I assume that they were in the middle of the train away from the engine crew and guard.     (Sorry.)

[southern42]

Morning Polly

 

Unfortunately I don't have any answers or information. It looks like , with research, acquiring all the stock and detailing, you could be busy until this time next year. But it will be worth it.

 

Thanks for your reply, Duncan, but this time next year?  That sounds optimistic especially if I'm going to be researching those biscuits.   

For anyone interested, how many biccy brands do you recognise under today's MacFarlane Lang group?  Not that it helps sort out the shunting query, but it does get the taste buds going - not that I eat a lot of them....

http://www.unitedbiscuits.com/

 

Polly

[emt_911]

Thanks for your reply, Duncan, but this time next year?  That sounds optimistic especially if I'm going to be researching those biscuits.   

For anyone interested, how many biccy brands do you recognise under today's MacFarlane Lang group?  Not that it helps sort out the shunting query, but it does get the taste buds going - not that I eat a lot of them....

http://www.unitedbiscuits.com/

 

Polly

10

[southern42]

Polly,

It is all coming together, that is good.

 

PO wagons.  Were they not all got rid of by BR or earlier as they made the railways inefficient with empty wagons going back from whence they came?

 

Biscuits.  I assume that they were in the middle of the train away from the engine crew and guard.     (Sorry.)

 

Hi Chris.

Not all.  Wagons and tanks that carried stuff like cement, tar, and oil usually remained in the hands of private owners.  BR didn't fancy cleaning up the mess, I gather.  Milk tanks were privately owned but BR leased / hired out the chassis. 

 

I find these links handy.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/7-fops/poops2.htm

A quote from this one, "PO liveried coal wagons had virtually disappeared by the early 1960's," leaves me open to the odd one perhaps lying around on the other side of the railway wall somewhere!  I'll also be running GWR stuff, anyway, but in a more relaxed sort of way, so any P.O. wagons that come my way will get an airing then.

 

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/7-fops/poops4.htm[/size]

 

Biscuits.

From the air - MacFarlane Lang under construction, 1930

http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw031986

 

Pics and maps of MacFarlane Lang and Firestone:  http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/brentford/index50.shtml

 

Looking at these, the siding to MacFarlane Lang, on the left hand (west) side of the track, heads south.  Would I be correct in thinking that if the loco was collecting the wagons bunker first, the wagons would be coupled at the front end of the train returning to Southall?  Is that sorted, then???

 

Brentford goods train

Photo of a goods train arriving bunker first at Brentford Dock to confirm direction: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/brentford_dock/index.shtml

The loco on this 1961 goods faces the same way but does anyone know if there's a model kit/RTR of the bogie well wagon?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Southall%2C_Ealing_geograph-2575873-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

 

The first wagon looks as though it could be one of these:

Bachmann Branchline 37-225G 16 Ton steel mineral wagon with top flap doors in BR grey

 

The closest I've got to the second:

Cooper Craft 1001W Dia. 04 Open A 5 Plank Wagon

http://shop.cooper-craft.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=9&products_id=29

 

I'd be pleased of some confirmation so that I can obtain appropriate stock with confidence.

 

9791 Allocations:

Southall 28/11/1959

Didcot 24/02/1962

Withdrawn 1964 and cut up.

 

Apologies for very late posting.  Watching the Star Trek whale movie on TV. 

 

Polly

[southern42]

Very useful find!

Coal wagons with bottom door.

A weathered Bachmann 7-plank mineral in BR grey and complete with ex-Private Owner 'P' number prefix on George Dent's blog.

http://georgedentmodelmaker.blogspot.co.uk/2013_08_01_archive.html

[emt_911]

Morning Polly

 

With reference to the Bogie Well Wagon. I have seen one somewhere. Not sure if it was a kit or not but for the life of me, I can't seem to find it at the moment.

[Coppercap]

The closest I've got to the second:

Cooper Craft 1001W Dia. 04 Open A 5 Plank Wagon

http://shop.cooper-craft.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=9&products_id=29

 

 

 

The second may be one of these (or something very similar, if it's not actually a shock absorbing wagon):

 

http://Bachmann.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/branchline/37-879.jpg&cat_no=37-879&info=0&width=650&height=414

 

The Cooper Craft kit has wooden ends, whereas the Bachmann wagon does at least have the corrugated ends. 

Edited November 8, 2014 by Coppercap

[Jaz]

have a word with Sasquatch he makes a LOT of wagon kits, and might have not only an idea on which might suits, but which can be adapted....man of many talents.......

[southern42]

Light stuff first.

Acquistion 3

We popped along to the Llandudno model engineering group this morning and then off to the model shop and saw a BR (late) fruit van on the shelf... Thinks... Brentford Market... Swaps cash for van. 
 

Now for the heavies...

 

Morning Polly
 
With reference to the Bogie Well Wagon. I have seen one somewhere. Not sure if it was a kit or not but for the life of me, I can't seem to find it at the moment.

 
Is it a standard design?  When I first looked at it, I wondered if it had been built up on top of a regular crocodile. 
 
 
 

The second may be one of these (or something very similar, if it's not actually a shock absorbing wagon):
 
http://Bachmann.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/branchline/37-879.jpg&cat_no=37-879&info=0&width=650&height=414
 
The Cooper Craft kit has wooden ends, whereas the Bachmann wagon does at least have the corrugated ends.

 
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. 
After a closer look at the chassis, I had a look at these Paul Bartlett photos (and others).
http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bropenmerchandiseowvcorrugated
How's that for a minefield?
 
But...is this it? BR 13ton High Goods Diagram 1/039.
http://www.norgrove.me.uk/genesis/WK3-28.jpg
http://www.norgrove.me.uk/genesis/GenesisWK3.htm
If so, are there any around, none on Genesis website that I can see?
http://pluto.servers.rbl-mer.misp.co.uk/~torqueoc/genesiskits.co.uk/index.php
 
Otherwise Parkside Dundas does one with flared corners, 8 wagons down the list on the website:  http://www.parksidedundas.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_BRITISH_RAILWAYS.html

 

So thanks to all for your interest and help.

 

Polly

 

[southern42]

have a word with Sasquatch he makes a LOT of wagon kits, and might have not only an idea on which might suits, but which can be adapted....man of many talents.......

 

Thanks, Jaz, I'll send a pm.

 

Polly