Great West Road - transfers & I’m not talking football!

[southern42]

For some reason I've only just come across this Polly.  Anyway the piece of wood is in nowhere near the right place for a wheelstop and I reckon it's probably a piece of packing timber belonging to the breakdown gang.  The object on the ground next to it looks to me very much like a vacuum pipe - possibly off the loco, possibly just lying around (although the latter is unlikely - probably something to do with whatever was involved in the derailment.

 

Thanks, Mike. I like that.

Would the derailment have had anything to do with its reallocation to Swindon and withdrawal, or just that its time was up, do you think? 

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks, Mike. I like that.

Would the derailment have had anything to do with its reallocation to Swindon and withdrawal, or just that its time was up, do you think? 

Could be either or both Polly.  While it doesn't look from the photo that damage would have been too serious there could well have been damage to the aged frames or possibly to components which weren't normal stock items.  Thus the repair costs would be greater and it might have been condemned on that basis - bit like humans in some respects, the older ones tend to break more easily and can be more difficult to mend.

 

But one thing worth noting is that Southall does at times seem to have been a favoured spot for sending engines to work out their mileage - so there might be a hint there?

[southern42]

Thanks, Mike.  I appreciate the response from one who knows about these things.

 

And now a referral to a tribute to Robert Fry (1945-2015) I've just put on Early Risers: #98563

 

 

P.S.  Which reminds me, it's great to read that everyone enjoyed Sunday's RMwebbers day at Didcot.

Edited July 30, 2015 by southern42

[Coppercap]

Hi Polly you would have never seen a 207 on the bridge maybe a 105, 120 or a 232.

Routes 105, 120 always had the old RT's, it was RM's on the 232 route in them days.

RMs never worked the 232. It was RTs, even after the introduction of the 232A.

[southern42]

Hi Polly you would have never seen a 207 on the bridge maybe a 105, 120 or a 232.

Routes 105, 120 always had the old RT's, it was RM's on the 232 route in them days.

 

 

Hmm, I wondered if that would be spotted. 

Top of the class, 81C!

Trouble is, it now means I've got some explaining to do. 

 

 

I only ever travelled through Southall on a 207 - or my bike - along the Uxbridge Road and there's a couple of very nice EFE Uxbridge and Hayes End ones.  Not that I've got either of them yet...I keep dithering!

 

Route 207 Uxbridge: 1961 AEC RML-Class EFE Scale 1:76 (00)

http://londonbus.me.uk/images/rmlnew-01.jpg

 

Route 207 Hayes End:

http://www.modelbuszone.co.uk/efe/dd/156/31503b.html

 

But you may think I should EX-TER-MIN-ATE the 207...

Click on the image to go to the website (Flashbak).

 

in favour of an EFE 105. AEC Regent III RT Shepherds Bush, advert: Don't say brown - say Hovis

which might be a bit early for the early 1960s:

http://www.modelbuszone.co.uk/efe/dd/101/10106dl.html

 

I failed to source a 1:76 scale 120 or 232 hence the preference for the 207 although I've been wondering since the beginning whether it would be possible to put in an iron bridge with road under (for those 207s) just before the fiddle yard but I've not got that far on the track plan to know if that would work.  I've got a similar looking bridge (single track) to the one in the link below (4 track?), which Ray built earlier, just waiting to be used on something.  There will have to be at least one 207, anyway, with Grandad at the wheel.

 

207 appearing from under the Iron Bridge:

http://www.aecsouthall.co.uk/southall/0014.htm

[Coppercap]

Routes 105, 120 always had the old RT's, it was RM's on the 232 route in them days.

 

Just looked up some more info - RMs replaced RTs on the 105 in April 1978 (then it was Metros from September 1982).

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Thanks for that picture Polly!
Now to figure out where to put the Daleks on Dunoon. I am going to have a TARDIS, probably on the station platform or thereabouts, but the Daleks boarding a bus would be hilarious! Probably have the 6th Doctor, got to stand out!

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Also, RE the crane

In around 2000? or so, Hornby did a red version of their current crane. Looking at the photo on page 32, it looks very similar to the Hornby model. The Hornby model, modified and superdetailed (of course) would quite possibly do the trick, and would certainly be an interesting piece of rolling stock to do!

 

The Doctor

 

(peter)

[exmoordave]

Hi Polly you would have never seen a 207 on the bridge maybe a 105, 120 or a 232.

Routes 105, 120 always had the old RT's, it was RM's on the 232 route in them days.

In the words of Maurice Chevalier, "Ah yes I remember it well"........

[southern42]

I'd moved from Southall back in 1977 to the sunny climbs of Surrey. 

 

I'd moved to the mountains of red dragon land 2 years earlier but to bring us up to date, I now have RT 105* to Shepherds Bush Green and 7, the latter will become RM 207 to Hayes End, hopefully, by the weekend.  Somewhere, I have a London Transport type bus stop...

 

Has anyone applied LBRT transfers?

http://www.busstopmodels.co.uk/

 

 

 

* Edit to correct bus type error. (See #814 below)

Edited September 3, 2015 by southern42

[southern42]

Thanks for that picture Polly!

Now to figure out where to put the Daleks on Dunoon. I am going to have a TARDIS, probably on the station platform or thereabouts, but the Daleks boarding a bus would be hilarious! Probably have the 6th Doctor, got to stand out!

 

"Daleks on Dunoon."  Now, that has a good ring about it.  Would make a good programme title, that.  I, too, have a TARDIS, and a 10th Doctor I scrubbed up from a spare Hornby figure, though I'd probably go with the first Doctor for this.

[Coppercap]

I'd moved to the mountains of red dragon land 2 years earlier but to bring us up to date, I now have two RMs, 105 to Shepherds Bush Green and 7, the latter will become Number 207 to Hayes End, hopefully, by the weekend.  Somewhere, I have a London Transport type bus stop...

 

Has anyone applied LBRT transfers?

http://www.busstopmodels.co.uk/

 

I guess, if it's EFE models you have, the '105' is 'route 105', and therefore would be an RT, not an RM. The '7' if it's 'route 7'  is no doubt an RM - and EFE did more than one on route 7.

EFE do make some nice bus stops, even with the little finials in the top (need to be painted though). You can get route 232 blinds for an RT from LBRT. 

Of course, you'll now need to get the correct bus numbers for the route and garage (for the period modelled), correct number plates and garage plates............woe betide any loco modeller with incorrect numbers and shed plates on a loco - bus modellers are no different!

[southern42]

Thanks Coppercap for the correction. Caught not paying attention, again.

 

The number plate for the 207 will be WLT 525 as in the photo above.  Do you know who sells them or is a DIY job?

 

For the posters there's a pic of "Please shop between 4 and 10" which I could resize and print off.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/gallery/2013/jan/09/london-underground-design#img-8

 

I can't find the Cinzano one, though.

 

And, as yet, I don't know what posters are on the front although there is at least one other pic of this bus on the web which I'll check out later.

[Coppercap]

Hi Polly

They are pretty good transfers straight forward to use, using a transfer softener helps Bus Stop Models would be the best people to ask as to which brand is suitable for their product.

As for the use of RM's instead if RT's on the 105(A) route I think there was an issue with clearance going into Heathrow Central they did lower the road in the tunnel circa 1977-78 which allowed RM.s (route 232A &105A I think A stood for airport at a guess) to be used there, route 120 was RT's only as the bridge at Hounslow Central Tube station was too low for the RM's I think council took the camber off the road under the bridge in Lampton road to allow RM's on the 120 route and high trucks as there was some issues with the height signage for the bridge .

The 'A' didn't stand for Airport at all - there was no 105A and the 232A didn't even go to the airport! The 232A was a new route, via Convent Way, and ran for a while in conjunction with the 232 until the 232 itself was dropped. The 232A was later remembered 232, then later still H32 (H for Hounslow). RMs NEVER operated the 232, 232A or 120, but they did take over from RTs on the 105 to the airport. Edited September 1, 2015 by Coppercap

[southern42]

Hi Polly 

They are pretty good transfers straight forward to use, using a transfer softener helps Bus Stop Models would be the best people to ask as to which brand is suitable for their product.

As for the use of RM's instead if RT's on the 105(A) route I think there was an issue with clearance going into Heathrow Central they did lower the road in the tunnel circa 1977-78 which allowed RM.s (route 232A &105A I think A stood for airport at a guess) to be used there, route 120 was RT's only as the bridge at Hounslow Central Tube station was too low for the RM's I think council took the camber off the road under the bridge in Lampton road to allow RM's on the 120 route and high trucks as there was some issues with the height signage for the bridge .

 

 

The 'A' didn't stand for Airport at all - there was no 105A and the 232A didn't even go to the airport! The 232A was a new route, via Convent Way, and ran for a while in conjunction with the 232 until the 232 itself was dropped. The 232A was later remembered 232, then later still H32 (H for Hounslow). RMs NEVER operated the 232, 232A or 120, but they did take over from RTs on the 105 to the airport.

 

Hi 81C and Coppercap.

I always thought the "A" just indicated a variation in Route. When I got the right keywords in Google I came across this link dealing with the use of suffixes:  http://www.red-rf.com/lt_operations_-_general/lt_route_numbering.aspx.

There's a bit more to it, then.

[Coppercap]

Hi 81C and Coppercap.

I always thought the "A" just indicated a variation in Route. When I got the right keywords in Google I came across this link dealing with the use of suffixes:  http://www.red-rf.com/lt_operations_-_general/lt_route_numbering.aspx.

There's a bit more to it, then.

 

You're correct, and I thought it was fairly obvious to most that a suffixed route was a variation. I mentioned earlier the 232 and 232A - these shared the same end points (Hounslow Bus Garage and Yeading (White Hart), and followed the same route from Hounslow to the North Star (North Hyde Lane), then split, taking different routes, then rejoining again in King Street in Southall, then sharing the route again to Yeading.

 

Interestingly, the 90B ran for very many years (probably decades) after the 90 itself ceased running. I think the 90B is just the 90 now, how boring! 

 

Now, thinking back, there was a specific Airport bus route with an 'A' in it - the A1 Express route that ran non-stop from Hounslow West station to Heathrow Central, that was, until the Piccadilly Line opened to Heathrow Airport Central. Used that bus many times for a day out at the Airport (no child fares though!). So in a way 81C is almost correct about 'A' for Airport, but as far as I know for Heathrow, that was the only specific 'A' route, for Airport, to go there.  

Edited September 3, 2015 by Coppercap

[southern42]

Thanks, Coppercap.  I was totally unaware of the 232/232A, though I must have watched it go past while waiting for buses on shopping trips back from Hounslow.

 

The 98A is the suffixed route I remember because it was strange to see it on route 204 (See map on the link below).  It meant you could get off the bus right outside the station instead of walking through the underpass and up to the top of the bridge to buy your train ticket.  By the time I was commuting, that route no longer operated, and I generally walked, anyway, because it was usually quicker than going by bus and, with fields and factories to walk past, it was a lot more interesting.  The route would have been more useful in my childhood when we used to go to Ruislip Lido for a summer's day out - our nearest "beach"! - when we had to change buses at Uxbridge.  A hot August was not the month to go though - too many wasps.  We lived in the wrong place for going to Uxbridge (Vine Street) by train, so these days I feel a bit disappointed after seeing photos of it in one of my GWR books* and missing out on those 1400s, the six wunners, panniers, GWR railcar and even the class 121 with speed whiskers.   Should've gone to specsavers trainspotting. 

http://www.londonbuses.co.uk/routes/098a-2.html

 

* Branch Lines of West London, Middleton Press

Edited September 3, 2015 by southern42

[southern42]

Hi all, just to let you know I'm still on board and you're not forgotten.  

 

Before I return to railway stuff, something I prepared earlier: a few links to info on the bus routes we've covered between us.  Personally, I like the info contained within the maps because some things have changed since the 60s, including routes and route numbers.

 

105

Shepherds Bush - Hayes Blythe Road

http://www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/current/105.html

AEC Regent III RT
The “RT family was on London streets from 1939 to 1979 and the type was London’s standard bus of the 1950s and 1960s.”
http://www.londonbusmuseum.com/museum-exhibits/double-deck-buses/aec-regent-iii-rt-rt-2775/

EFE AEC Regent RT Class Double Deck Bus

10106GS London Transport - Central - Route 105 Southall Hovis Advert's (Part of set 19902)

 

120

Hounslow Heath - Southall Delamere Road (Mon-Fri peaks)

Mon-Fri Southall - Hayes withdrawn

Replaced by 207^A (part of the 607 trolleybus replacement programme)

http://www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/current/120.html

 

207

RM457 11 October 1961

RT1329 8 May 1963

http://www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/current/207-2.html

 

207^A  (Mon-Sat evenings)

Hayes Station-Southall-Shepherds Bush Green

Replaced Route 120 Southall-Hayes

http://www.londonbuses.co.uk/routes/207a-2.html

 

232

1955 Hounslow-Southall-Greenford

1963 Hounslow-Southall-Northwood-Mount Vernon Hospital

http://www.londonbuses.co.uk/routes/232-1.html

 

At some point, I'll have to do the same thing for Railway Centre days - Buses over the Bridge 2011.

You have been warned. 

Edited September 17, 2015 by southern42

[Coppercap]

120

Hounslow Heath - Southall Delamere Road (Mon-Fri peaks)

Mon-Fri Southall - Hayes withdrawn

Replaced by 207^A (part of the 607 trolleybus replacement programme)

http://www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/current/120.html

 

 

 

 

 

Well the 120 continued to run Hounslow Heath to Southall long after the 120 section to Hayes along the Uxbridge Road was replaced by the 207A.  

Edited September 17, 2015 by Coppercap

[southern42]

Buses over the Bridge 2011

 

Well the 120 continued to run Hounslow Heath to Southall long after the 120 section to Hayes along the Uxbridge Road was replaced by the 207A.  

 

It looks like London Bus Routes, Route 120 might prove useful showing a pic of a 120 in Lady Margaret Road on Saturday 2 April 2011.  The set of links on the home page also look useful.

 

This afternoon, I came across a pic of the southbound bus stop outside Southall Station: https://maninblue1947.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/83-i-sthlstation-22-08-14.jpg

 

With a choice of six buses, I should be able to find a couple to put on GWRd.  Ever hopeful but that's for later.

[southern42]

The GWR diesel.

 

Saturday, I picked up the Judith Edge Kit for 15100 while we were at Expo EM North. So far, I'm still on page 1 of the instructions...

 

This afternoon, I came across a photo of the loco sideways on showing the number.  What I thought was a freehand painted zero (0) is clearly a damaged zero.  Am I correct in thinking the numbers are made of cast or sheet metal rather than being painted directly onto the cab side?

 

Detail from photo:

 

Complete photo: https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?page=1&serial=16&img=WRD00493

Edited September 17, 2015 by southern42

[southern42]

' Morning, all.  A little breather from CQ!

A surprise was waiting in the magazine shop, yesterday, for not only were there 1960s Western photos in colour inside "Steam World" (No. 340, October) there was a photo of Southall shed which captured my interest.  The Modified Hall from 2D (Banbury) has rough painted numbers on the smoke box door in the absence of its normal number plate and is pretty rundown.  The Grange next to it, from 2B (Wolverhampton Oxley), doesn't look much better - are the numbers “10” “39,” either side of the smoke box door darts, a departure/arrival time?  And it gets better for, on other pages, two (GWRd) locos sparkle - 4079 Pendennis Castle in preservation livery on an Ian Allen tour at Paddington and 6998 Burton Agnes Hall (final steam train Oxford to Banbury); 7029 Clun Castle (which worked from Southall for this) is on the last steam-hauled train from Paddington, looking past her best; and Southall allocated 3859 (at Gloucester) is looking a bit grubby.  Talking of CQ, GWR pannier tank 1369 is departing LSWR territory for Bodmin.  What a  find!  That lot will keep me happy for months… 

But back to modelling on CQ, for now. Everyone say, “Ah!”

Aaahh!

 

[The Stationmaster]

Your '10'/'39' is probably far more likely to be 1O39 which was the headcode of a train the engine had worked recently and which hadn't been rubbed off afterwards.  Chalked headcodes were not uncommon on Western engines in later years.

[br2975]

The GWR diesel.

 

Saturday, I picked up the Judith Edge Kit for 15100 while we were at Expo EM North. So far, I'm still on page 1 of the instructions...

 

This afternoon, I came across a photo of the loco sideways on showing the number.  What I thought was a freehand painted zero (0) is clearly a damaged zero.  Am I correct in thinking the numbers are made of cast or sheet metal rather than being painted directly onto the cab side?

 

Detail from photo:

WRD00493.780 Ron Dyer Archive Swindon_damaged number 0.jpg

 

Complete photo: https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?page=1&serial=16&img=WRD00493

 

In this case, the numerals are painted onto the cab side.

 

I was not familiar with this loco, but the follow-on batch 15101-15106 worked the Cardiff area up until about 1965.

 

This later batch,although delivered post nationalisation, initially carried cast GWR style number plates, but these were replaced by painted numerals by the time I knew them.

.

Brian R

[southern42]

Your '10'/'39' is probably far more likely to be 1O39 which was the headcode of a train the engine had worked recently and which hadn't been rubbed off afterwards.  Chalked headcodes were not uncommon on Western engines in later years.

 

Thanks, Mike.  I've seen destinations (and cheeky faces, notably 6167 at 81C, 1964) in chalk but not headcodes.  Another bit of info for GWRd.

 

 

In this case, the numerals are painted onto the cab side.

 

I was not familiar with this loco, but the follow-on batch 15101-15106 worked the Cardiff area up until about 1965.

 

This later batch,although delivered post nationalisation, initially carried cast GWR style number plates, but these were replaced by painted numerals by the time I knew them.

.

Brian R

 

Thanks, Brian, though I'm not sure the numbers are directly painted on the cab side.

Comparing the two sets of numbers, the later batch are in a serif font.  15100 looks to have the same non-serif style font as on the GWR 6117 smokebox number plate recently sold at Auction:  http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/g-w-railwayana-auctions-ltd/catalogue-id-srgw10004/lot-8e598301-4b0c-4494-b1e1-a45600feceef.

Various photos of 15100 indicate that the numbers on the cab are in relief (with shadows), which suggests something other than just paint.

This detail from 15100, 14 February 1965, at Swindon @ rail-online.co.uk: