hayfield Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I fancy just for the fun of it to build an interlaced turnout, now my knowlage of interlaced turnouts is limited to a few photos and the odd plan. I have seen turnouts from the North Eastern and Scottish railways and I have a friend who models the Highland Railway and I offered to give him the turnout. My questions are ! what sleeper size was used 10" or 12" or was there a mixture of both. Highland Railway was 4 Bolt chairs? Any information would be most usefull thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Attached from the NERly Standards Book (ex NERA) NER "Sleepered Single Jct, and also for interest photo's of my H&B Sleepered Turnout. Best Wishes, Mick. I fancy just for the fun of it to build an interlaced turnout, now my knowlage of interlaced turnouts is limited to a few photos and the odd plan. I have seen turnouts from the North Eastern and Scottish railways and I have a friend who models the Highland Railway and I offered to give him the turnout. My questions are ! what sleeper size was used 10" or 12" or was there a mixture of both. Highland Railway was 4 Bolt chairs? Any information would be most usefull thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 Mick Thanks very much for that, well it certainly looks a bit lop sided with 12" sleepers at the heal. Thoughty that there may have been 12" sleepers around the common crossing with the chairs for both the V and checkrails Thanks again Does anyone know is the Scottish companies followed the same Practice please Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Don't know if this will help you as I only have info for the Great North of Scotland who used 9' long, 10" broad and either 5 or 4 1/2" thick sleepers laid 11 sleepers to a 30' length. As for points these would originally have been laid sleepered throughout, similar to the bottom diagram shown above. The diverging line was 'joggled' for 4" ahead of the switch. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 John Thank you very much, the turnout to an unknowing eye looks wrong. So I guess even more reason for building it. I have no idea what a 'back heal chair' is. Nothing in Google Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I have no idea what a 'back heal chair' is. The back heel chairs are just the chairs that hold both the stock and switch rails at the required spacing, the No6 and No8 will just refer to the spacing. The 8 chairs from the toe to the first back heel chair are slide chairs, note these are flexible switches. There is a note on the drawing directing you to another drawing if you want to use pivoting heel switches. Regards Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portchullin Tatty Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Does anyone know is the Scottish companies followed the same Practice please Yes I think so. Mick Nicholson has attached a drawing of a fully interlaced turnout; which looks to be pretty much the same as the photos I have of a Highland one in the yard at Lairg in the 1970's. The pictures of the model one shows a partially interlaced turnout, where the crossing timbers have been changed to both 12 inch wide sleepers but full length through the whole crossing. The photo does not show whether the switch also had its timbers replaced; again to 12 wide sleepering but also lengths that are increasing as the two turnout roads diverge. Certainly, these are all possible outcomes as the turnout undergoes maintenance and sleeper replacement, they will have tended to start at the most sensitive area, the crossing. I am of the view that the sleepers to the diverging road should remain perpendicular to the rail, which is at least close to what Mick's drawing shows. His model shows them remaining perpendicular to the mainline side of the turnout - that is not supported by the photos I have for the Highland one at Lairg, but it may be correct elsewhere/other companies. I do not think you should get too precious about the exact dimensions and spacing of the sleepers. The published standards (one of which Mick is quoting from) did not come into being until well through the pre-grouping era (probably all in the 20th Century?) and prior to that "local custom" is probably the only guide to how it was done and I dare say "custom" was not consistant from locality to locality and possibly from one week to another! Sleepers can also get moved a bit over the life of the turnout too as it undergoes maintenance/repacking etc, so a bit of irregularity would be correct in my eyes. Yes the Highland did use four bolt chairs. They may have used lighter chairs in the early days though. I think you are based somewhere in the south because you have seen Portchullin at Southampton a while back? My next outing is Aldershot in October; stop by and have a look at my turnouts as I have examples of both fully and partially interlaced sleepering in about correct arrangements for the Highland. Few people comment on them, but I do think that they stand out as a tad different whcih I like. Does anyone know whether a slip would ever have been interlaced and if so how? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portchullin Tatty Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Yes I think so. Oh and to add. There has been a similarish discussion to this on the Scalefour society's forum and there are a few pictures posted on this of Scottish interlaced turnouts. Have a look at them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portchullin Tatty Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 And another Oh! I find that interlaced turnouts are a bit sloppy when they are not firmly affixed to the baseboard, as the two diverging roads can slop about as there is not means of holding the rail for the road that is divergin on the sleeper that is taking the main line (and vice versa). I get around this by popping in a couple of rivets below the diverging rail just to tag it in place. These never get chairs and are almost invisible when the track is laid. I just find it helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham R Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 ... I only have info for the Great North of Scotland who used 9' long, 10" broad and either 5 or 4 1/2" thick sleepers laid 11 sleepers to a 30' length ... John Hi John, That is very useful info, thanks. Can you remember where you got the data? I too am interested in modelling GNoS track, but have not managed to find any very specific details. I have the nagging feeling I did come across sleeper size and spacing for plain track at one point, maybe in the Cecil Allan trackwork book from around 1915, but can't now find my notes! Do you know if they altered the sleeper spacing at rail joints? One primary-source document I did find was a GNoS PW department "cheat-sheet" - a little card folder titled “Crossing Leads and Cant on Curves” and dated 1921. It's in Aberdeen University's O'Dell collection, shelfmark OD.E2.GNS.c Here's what it says about crossing leads (copied in rather awkwardly as an image of my wordprocessor notes, seems I can't upload an OpenOffice file to RMWeb): The main point of interest for me is that only 12', 15', 18' and 21' straight leads are mentioned, which might mean these were the standard sizes used for PW work... similarly that there are no fraction sizes for crossing angles. I imagine that, where necessary, they would use specials - there are drawings in the NAS for a specific crossing at Kittybrewster - but for ordinary branch lines, maybe loose-heel switches with these leads are enough. I don't know enough about PW to draw out trackwork, but fortunately Templot takes care of that for me! I also came across a mention in the GNSRA's "Review" that the GNS didn't use transition curves initially, and didn't get round to re-laying transitions on branch lines until well into the LNE era. Must have been a bumpy ride! regards Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Dear Mark, my turnout follows H&B practise and is as per drawings and also photo's of surviving examples at Hull Springhead early '50's. It would appear "Sleepered Slips" did once exist, see attached drawings, again ex Hull & Barnsley Rly. Best Wishes, Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 Thanks everyone for the additional information, I wont mentioned the interlaced slip to my friend though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Thanks everyone for the additional information, I wont mentioned the interlaced slip to my friend though Why not? I'm sure you are the man to make him one, or possibly two. Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Attached photo of my EM Gauge H&B Turnout. The round stretchers are homemade and insulated. Best Wishes, Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 Mick Thanks, my friend is a member of the Highland society and has come up with with some info on these but nothing other than whats been said already. Glad I have no friends with dual gauge layouts!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Glad I have no friends with dual gauge layouts!! Now, that would be an interesting challenge. Best Wishes, Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portchullin Tatty Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Glad I have no friends with dual gauge layouts!! Now, that would be an interesting challenge. Best Wishes, Mick. These look fun.......................... Meter gauge centred on standard gauge. There was a scissors crossover too (which I did not manage to photograph), it was quite mind bogglingly complex!!! Noyelles sur Mere on the Chemin de Fer de la Bais de Somme; a rather wonderful preserved railway in northern France. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Often wondered why I do not model continental railways !!, thanks for the photos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Hi John, That is very useful info, thanks. Can you remember where you got the data? I too am interested in modelling GNoS track, but have not managed to find any very specific details. I have the nagging feeling I did come across sleeper size and spacing for plain track at one point, maybe in the Cecil Allan trackwork book from around 1915, but can't now find my notes! Do you know if they altered the sleeper spacing at rail joints? regards Graham Graham the info is from a GNSRA Abstract (no. 34). Taken from an Address given in 1902. For a 30' rail one sleeper is laid 1 foot from each end and the remainder equally spaced. Hope that helps Always good to hear from fellow GNoS modellers, If you wish to chat outwith this thread, give me a PM John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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