34theletterbetweenB&D Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 The King without a doubt. My guess, Hornby are not keen on internal competition and will get maximum sales out of their new Castle tooling before knocking out the King to current standard. The Star is more problematic isn't it? Looks much like a Castle with a smaller earlier design cab and tender, basically because it is 'Castle mk0' or 'ur-Castle', however you want to think about it. I'd be thinking a commission is the more likely way on that subject in RTR... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 4, 2012 Would that be the 0-6-0 tender Collett goods you are referring to? 32-310 is the only one I am aware of that is listed in a current catalogue. It clearly looks post-war (Hawksworth era) to me. 32-304 had a shirtbutton livery. There was also an prior model, but I'd have to trawl through catalogues. I don't recall any being offered lined out but might be remembering it wrong. I have no idea if this locomotive class, being primarily freight was ever lined out in revenue service. Just to clear this up the 2251s only ran in unlined livery in GWR days but some appeared in lined green (and unlined green) in BR times and Bachmann have, of course, modelled them in BR lined green 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 (edited) I think I have found a Tintagel but shock horror it is at normal retail price. Good grief does anyone ever pay normal retail anymore? I will keep you informed and perhaps load a picture after I buy it, ..might match it with some early livery Bachmann GWR Colletts. Am I right that the Collett versions with lining would be more suitable than those without? Could someone suggest what time line would suit each style? The Mainline/Replica/Bachmann Collett coaches represent prototypes that were built from 1938. I would consider it unlikely that Tintagel (or any Castle, being front-line locos) would have made it to 1938 in the pre-1935 livery as on the model (older, less prominent locos likely did). If you assume it did, then the most likely livery would be shirtbutton with a white roof (Mainline/early Bachmann), followed by shirtbutton with a dark roof (1940 on). If you are hunting for second-hand Colletts, try to get the Mainline C77 all-thirds as they are more accurate (Bachmann modified the tooling which affected the height of the corridor-side windows). The E159 brake compo wasn't modified. Adrian Edited May 4, 2012 by Adrian Wintle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 The Mainline/Replica/Bachmann Collett coaches represent prototypes that were built from 1938. I would consider it unlikely that Tintagel (or any Castle, being front-line locos) would have made it to 1938 in the pre-1935 livery as on the model (older, less prominent locos likely did). If you assume it did, then the most likely livery would be shirtbutton with a white roof (Mainline/early Bachmann), followed by shirtbutton with a dark roof (1940 on). If you are hunting for second-hand Colletts, try to get the Mainline C77 all-thirds as they are more accurate (Bachmann modified the tooling which affected the height of the corridor-side windows). The E159 brake compo wasn't modified. Adrian Oh dear, I didn't realize the Bachmann Collett 3rds and Brake 1st/3rds were of such late production... might I ask if the prototypes ever carried the words 'Great Western' separated by a coat-of-arms, as in some of their models? 34-052A and 34-076A... which two which I have bought. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 The King without a doubt. My guess, Hornby are not keen on internal competition and will get maximum sales out of their new Castle tooling before knocking out the King to current standard. The Star is more problematic isn't it? Looks much like a Castle with a smaller earlier design cab and tender, basically because it is 'Castle mk0' or 'ur-Castle', however you want to think about it. I'd be thinking a commission is the more likely way on that subject in RTR... With costs rising for the planning and production of new models, one wonders if if a 28XX cab, tender and some suitable Swindon boiler without external steam pipes might not be a possible way to produce a 'Star'. Sounds quite simple on the surface.... but I'll bet it's not! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) Oh dear, I didn't realize the Bachmann Collett 3rds and Brake 1st/3rds were of such late production... might I ask if the prototypes ever carried the words 'Great Western' separated by a coat-of-arms, as in some of their models? I don't have the suitable reference works to verify running numbers, but presumably they did so during the post war period up to nationalisation. Edited May 5, 2012 by Ozexpatriate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) Having received my Tintagel Castle this morning I was pleased that it had the correct smokebox and no obvious paint issues at a first glance in good daylight, but closer inspection revealed some damaged surfaces on the smokebox, then I noticed feathering on the r/h firebox area, as well as r/h cabside, see photos. Not very bad, but since I often photograph these models and re-sell them, I have asked for a replacement from the dealer, who is happy to do so. (Acorn Models, Christchurch NZ). I consider it a lovely model, regardless of the slight paint imperfections. They aren't very different from prototypical cleaning marks..I feel rather sorry for the manufacturers and retailer, as I doubt it was an easy fault to detect during production. Should have another one by Friday. Just to show that the issue of paint finishing faults is not confined to Tintagel Castle, I show below also the same problem on the smokebox and firebox-side of Beverston Castle, although in this case perhaps within acceptable limits? I have had similar issues with weathered rebuilt West Countries too, but overall very rare problems. Edited May 7, 2012 by robmcg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) Oh dear, I didn't realize the Bachmann Collett 3rds and Brake 1st/3rds were of such late production... might I ask if the prototypes ever carried the words 'Great Western' separated by a coat-of-arms, as in some of their models? 34-052A and 34-076A... which two which I have bought. Rob Yes, but... Unlike locos, that livery on coaches was brought in late in the war and lasted until nationalization. In very broad terms (and with lots of exceptions) Loco with Great <crest> Western would have coaches with GWR over a crest Loco with Shirtbutton would have coaches with Shirtbutton Loco with G <crest> W (or GWR) would have coaches with Great <crest> Western There really aren't any higher-spec coach models that go with Tintagel (unless you want to run an inter-regional train with other company's stock*), but some of the latest versions of the Hornby Colletts have beautiful livery applications, even if the coaches themselves are a bit long in the tooth. *e.g. there were multiple Brighton-Cardiff trains that were diagrammed to be a SR set of brake third, third, first, third, brake third, occasionally with a GWR third as the leading coach in GWR territory. I would guess that this was more likely a Hall duty rather than a Castle, but... Adrian Edited May 7, 2012 by Adrian Wintle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Clearly there are few RTR coaches to suit Great (crest) Western locos, but the post war G W R Castle will look nice with the currently available chocolate and cream Hawksworths. Thanks for the advice. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted May 10, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Having received my Tintagel Castle this morning I was pleased that it had the correct smokebox and no obvious paint issues at a first glance in good daylight, but closer inspection revealed some damaged surfaces on the smokebox, then I noticed feathering on the r/h firebox area, as well as r/h cabside, see photos. Not very bad, but since I often photograph these models and re-sell them, I have asked for a replacement from the dealer, who is happy to do so. (Acorn Models, Christchurch NZ). I consider it a lovely model, regardless of the slight paint imperfections. They aren't very different from prototypical cleaning marks..I feel rather sorry for the manufacturers and retailer, as I doubt it was an easy fault to detect during production. Should have another one by Friday. Just to show that the issue of paint finishing faults is not confined to Tintagel Castle, I show below also the same problem on the smokebox and firebox-side of Beverston Castle, although in this case perhaps within acceptable limits? I have had similar issues with weathered rebuilt West Countries too, but overall very rare problems. That is a real shame Rob, hope you are pleased with the replacement. I now have two (1st one had issues - see earlier in the thread). But now I have the correct versions - thankfully with no issues, they both run like a dream! I'm looking forward to a shirtbutton liveried version for 2013 !! - Maybe I can then have 3 or 4 - how many is too many GWR Castles???? Edited May 10, 2012 by Neal Ball Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted May 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2012 how many is too many GWR Castles???? No such thing in having too many Castles. Interesting idea on the shirtbutton release Neal. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 The recent Castle livery discussion here put me in mind of this old thread on preferences for GWR livery periods. Did we ever do that old thread in poll form with automated questions? (I don't remember.) Is this worth doing? I didn't want to start a thread that was essentially a rehash. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted May 10, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 10, 2012 No such thing in having too many Castles. Interesting idea on the shirtbutton release Neal. Quite right on both points Rob, I reckon we need to get Mike to email Simon Kohler and lobby on our behalf! Shirtbutton is long overdue eh! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted May 10, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) The recent Castle livery discussion here put me in mind of this old thread on preferences for GWR livery periods. Did we ever do that old thread in poll form with automated questions? (I don't remember.) Is this worth doing? It's worth doing again! - Hopefully Andy wont shoot me! I will ask first though! Edited May 10, 2012 by Neal Ball Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted May 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2012 Quite right on both points Rob, I reckon we need to get Mike to email Simon Kohler and lobby on our behalf! Shirtbutton is long overdue eh! I actually like the livery Hornby are doing on 'Wellington' this year but it should be on a Collett tender.This gives more renaming options.A Hawksworth tender on the 'aircraft' Castles does limit the name choice.A shirtbutton livery would ring the changes.Have Hornby ever done this livery on a Castle before ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) It's worth doing again! - Hopefully Andy wont shoot me! I will ask first though! Found it! I thought we did one ... GWR & BR(WR) Era poll (which era do you model in?) There's probably no need for a new poll. Perhaps just a bump for newcomers to vote. Lately I've seen a couple of new RMwebbers who have identified themselves as GWR fans. Edited May 10, 2012 by Ozexpatriate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted May 10, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 10, 2012 Yes, I thought it was odd that Hornby chose the Hawkesworth tender, with the only Collet tender being on BR livery locos. - Here's hoping for 2013 - But I am not thinking of a wish-list 2013 !! - I still have enough to buy in 2012! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) That is a real shame Rob, hope you are pleased with the replacement. I now have two (1st one had issues - see earlier in the thread). But now I have the correct versions - thankfully with no issues, they both run like a dream! I'm looking forward to a shirtbutton liveried version for 2013 !! - Maybe I can then have 3 or 4 - how many is too many GWR Castles???? Replacement Tintagel arrived this morning, looks superb. The more GWR-era Castles the better. Photos show the replacement model from 2 angles, a third pic shows my weakness for modifying photos which the case of Castles means shadow where front cylinders are, and slightly more 'scale' wheel flanges on front wheels. Hornby have done a lovely job and a shame about the faulty paint on my first purchase... the shop only had two. All of my Castles (five at last count) have run perfectly. Rob liberties with computer image around front wheels below... Edited May 11, 2012 by robmcg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I actually like the livery Hornby are doing on 'Wellington' this year but it should be on a Collett tender.This gives more renaming options.A Hawksworth tender on the 'aircraft' Castles does limit the name choice.A shirtbutton livery would ring the changes.Have Hornby ever done this livery on a Castle before ? Yes, in the previous model they did Wellington in Shirtbutton (R2459) - mine has been modified to have its original name of Devizes Castle. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
exet1095 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 If anyone in London wants a "Tintagel Castle", Modelzone in Holborn had two in stock yesterday. They were marked as £89.99 each. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted May 11, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 11, 2012 Found it! I thought we did one ... GWR & BR(WR) Era poll (which era do you model in?) There's probably no need for a new poll. Perhaps just a bump for newcomers to vote. Lately I've seen a couple of new RMwebbers who have identified themselves as GWR fans. There is a new Poll here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6587-gwr-brwr-modellers-opinion-sought/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 If anyone in London wants a "Tintagel Castle", Modelzone in Holborn had two in stock yesterday. They were marked as £89.99 each. Ack! I'm so jealous. Mine cost a lot more... and it took two attempts to get one with good paint! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) A rather old postcard style of the clean-paint Tintagel... Hornby have a lovely engine. or, in cigarette-card colour...! Presumably around 1934... Rob Edited May 13, 2012 by robmcg 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted May 13, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 13, 2012 That is magnificent Rob and very clever too.I'll be sending you a photo of mine to do the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted May 13, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 13, 2012 That is magnificent Rob and very clever too.I'll be sending you a photo of mine to do the same. Indeed - very clever, I think I am pretty good with photoshop, but the photos are excellent! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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