Starter Signal positioning.

[Katier]

Follow on from a topic on Minories..

 

 

This is likely to be the final format of Emmyton with the possible exception of the fiddle yard being laid out differently and the two 'bay' lines probably not having a cross-over in as things are a bit tight and I can't accommodate platform 4 AND enough room for the buffers of loco's using it.

 

Pink is goods - so no signalling (even in NER days) I believe.

 

Blue is passenger - 4 platforms.

 

1 - Arrivals and departures - the platform runs past the first cross-over slightly so long expresses will arrive here and need backing up to release the loco. For departure on occasional long trains the loco will be partially over the cross-over (fouling all 3 other platforms for a short time) which I have been told by a railwayman friend does occasionally happen.

 

2 - can take slightly shorter trains - sometimes might depart fouled although normally a train of that length would depart from 1. I envisage standard intercity trains would arrive in 1 and depart from 2. (1 won't have much in the way of waiting facilities)

 

3 - mainly used for commuter type traffic - push-pulls, railcars, 3 coach max.

 

4 - mainly parcels services and similar.

 

Question is what signals and where. I'm aware NER is signal heavy although even in NER days I can't imagine that many signals. The crucial thing for me is the position of the starters for platform 1.

[The Stationmaster]

Where are the platform ends - that will have an influence on signal siting (as of course do the crossovers)?

[Katier]

 

Platform 4 finished pretty much on the edge of frame to the right.

[Oldddudders]

So what we need to know is whether you envisage all services from platform 1 leaving via that crossover? If so, then the starting signal must be immediately in rear of it, i.e. buffer-stops side. The fact that some departing trains would be hanging over the crossover is almost irrelevant. There were countless locations where that would be the case, and the signalman coped safely with the situation, pulling the signal off if the track-circuiting allowed, or flagging the train away if not. Such a station would be bound to have at least one advanced starting signal as the section signal.

[Katier]

Yes that is the only means of a train departing on the correct line so they would have to depart via that crossover.

[beast66606]

Why not simply post the passenger side of things ? - wood for trees and all that

 

PS - Goods only does not necessarily mean no signals.

[Katier]

Why not simply post the passenger side of things ? - wood for trees and all that

 

PS - Goods only does not necessarily mean no signals.

 

Well the photo does that - only bits off picture are the release cross-over, start of platform 4 and the facing cross-over on approach.

[The Stationmaster]

Is the double to single connection 'off scene' thus creating what is visibly a double line entering the station? (sounds as if that is the case) I suspect that at least the approaches to goods area would have been signalled in NER days but again it needs a bit f amplification regarding what is what and what is 'visible'.

 

As far as platform 1 is concerned the Starter will also have a small arm bracketed off to its right to read to the turntable/engine siding. The other platforms will simply have a Starting signal and a splitting signal ( with small arm reading to the right again) should be provided at the toe of the facing crossover in the departure line.

[Katier]

yep, the single Line connections are to simplify the fiddle yard. the goods line are two seperate destinations one which would connect to the mainline off scene, the other to a still undecided port or colliery.

[beast66606]

Well the photo does that - only bits off picture are the release cross-over, start of platform 4 and the facing cross-over on approach.

 

I'm sure I can see two colours on the picture, no worries, you obviously don't need my assistance.

[The Stationmaster]

yep, the single Line connections are to simplify the fiddle yard. the goods line are two seperate destinations one which would connect to the mainline off scene, the other to a still undecided port or colliery.

In which case I would expect (on the NER at any rate!) that there would probably be a signalbox and a few signals.

[Katier]

In which case I would expect (on the NER at any rate!) that there would probably be a signalbox and a few signals.

 

Indeedy!!!

 

For the signalbox I think I have two choices. Either a Gantry box above the approach plus a low level box or a gantry mounted box over the goods approach lines serving both lines. Visibility in both locations wouldn't be a problem so not sure which is the most logical option.

 

So signal wise :-

 

Gantry across the mainlines with starters for 1 and 2 and 3 (1 with an indicator for the loco shed)

Separate single starter at the end of platform 4

 

You mentioned an advanced starter, what is the purpose of that and where would it sit?

 

Splitting signal would be between the tracks at ground level?

 

 

Bit of thread drift, but we did consider signals for the goods but think the decision there probably wouldn't be any.. but then the goods has changed slightly now anyway.. so a revisit is probably worthwhile.

[The Stationmaster]

Indeedy!!!

 

For the signalbox I think I have two choices. Either a Gantry box above the approach plus a low level box or a gantry mounted box over the goods approach lines serving both lines. Visibility in both locations wouldn't be a problem so not sure which is the most logical option.

 

So signal wise :-

 

Gantry across the mainlines with starters for 1 and 2 and 3 (1 with an indicator for the loco shed)

Separate single starter at the end of platform 4

 

You mentioned an advanced starter, what is the purpose of that and where would it sit?

 

Splitting signal would be between the tracks at ground level?

 

Let's go through them again -

Platform 1. Semaphore running arm on main post plus a small arm bracketed to the right for moves to loco siding.

Platforms 2, 3, & 4 Semaphore running arm only.

Toe of facing crossover in departure line (which leads to incoming line/loco siding - as Starter for Platform 1, the small arm reads to the loco siding.

 

Not sure if I called that one an Advanced Starter but there would probably be one although it might be out of sight.

[Katier]

Thankyou - your a star - still trying understand signalling stuffs!!!

 

Sorry to be a bit dense. The last signal is still confusing me - I get it at one of two positions based on your description ( probably a blond moment!! ).

 

It's either on the platform roughly in line with the gap in the retaining wall you can see, OR between the two cross-overs?

 

The other 3 starters I'm assuming are all sitting on single posts on the platform itself?

[The Stationmaster]

It goes immediately in rear of the toe of the crossover end in the departure line - i.e looking at the top pic in your post of 11 August lat year in the layout thread it will be just off the left hand edge of that view so between the two crossovers - and probably on a gantry in view of the topography.

 

The others might might on straight posts although those for platforms 3 & 4 would most likely be on a bracket structure as they are going to be in line with each other judging by the Templot.

[Katier]

Thanks Mike - makes sense now. Prejumably the subsidury 'loco siding' signal would work for all lines? Given NER's preponsity for signals would there be anything for traffic going 'wrong line' to the loco sidings?

 

If I do understand you correctly, the subsidury would only work for traffic on the departure line.

 

How do you think the signalbox would have been done - I know NER did do overhead gantry boxes (and I think even one on a tall thin between the tracks support) - do you think the idea of having a single overhead box sitting astride the low level lines would be viable/sensible?

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks Mike - makes sense now. Prejumably the subsidury 'loco siding' signal would work for all lines? Given NER's preponsity for signals would there be anything for traffic going 'wrong line' to the loco sidings?

 

If I do understand you correctly, the subsidury would only work for traffic on the departure line.

 

How do you think the signalbox would have been done - I know NER did do overhead gantry boxes (and I think even one on a tall thin between the tracks support) - do you think the idea of having a single overhead box sitting astride the low level lines would be viable/sensible?

 

In view of the site I think an overhead 'box would have been unavoidable

 

The small signal (technically not a subsidiary in these circumstances as it was there for routeing) would apply to moves from the departure line through the facing crossover then into the loco siding. On the arrival line there might have been a shunt signal (small semaphore type) in view of the distance from the Starter in Platform 1 even tho' it has a small arm to read to the loco siding.