Frustration with things not working properly

[Les Bird]

I give up! The Hornby Class 31 has finally convinced me that now is the time to give up railway modelling. It refuses to haul Hornby Gresley coaches without constantly derailing the leading coach. Both ends of the chassis have dropped off leaving me with difficult repairs to make. The Hornby B1 also derails coaches mainly I think due to Hornby's complicated coupling mechanism and the L1 will not run forwards without the pony truck going sideways. This is not a rant directed solely at Hornby either. The Bachmann Thompson coaches also derail because the wheel flanges foul the coach floor. I have been involved with model railways for close on 60 years and I never before had so many things going wrong. The new generation models may look wonderful in a showcase but what's the point if they don't work? The undamaged items will find their way into Ebay and the rest is going in the bin!

[scots region]

Surely it would be best to talk to the maunfacture? Or alternatively talk to people here and see what advice they have.

[HLT 0109]

Oh dear Les - that is sad. I don't have a class 31 or a B1 or indeed any Thompson coaches but I do have an L1 which had the problem you describe. Several cures have appeared in these colums and I have succeeded in curing mine so I would urge you not to give up but to persevere. On the L1 try sticking something in the access hole for the securing screw to the front pony truck, that will restrict the pony truck's forward movement. I used a screw with a big enough head not to pass through the hole; I screwed it into a short piece of plastruct tube and stuck the screw head in place with Evostik solvent-free contact adhesive. The contact adhesive remains rubbery so the modification can be adjusted. I now have no derailments on my 2nd and 3rd radius curves, set-track points or curved points - all Hornby.

 

Harold.

[RFS]

The failures with the class 31 chassis are well known and Hornby are replacing the chassis free of charge. See this topic - http://www.rmweb.co....ass-31-chassis/ .

[Les Bird]

I am aware of Hornby's response to the problem but, at the time, mine appeared not to be too badly affected. After the passge of time and the repairs I have already carried out, I doubt that Hornby would be willing to exchange it. In any case, I suspect that the derailment problem would perisist. It appears that the locomotive coupling (and this applies to the B1 tender too) is lifting the coach when exiting from curved track onto straight track and this causes the flanges to ride over the railhead.(By the way, I'm not using particularly sharp curves either). I know the old method of attaching couplings to the bogie rather than the vehicle chassis may not have been ideal, but at least it worked. The additional flexibility built into the coupling mounts also brings its own problems. In some instances the coupling hangs too low and fouls points and crossings. This problem seems to affect Bachmann products more than Hornby. I have partially overcome the derailing by substituting Roco couplings but this means I either have to equip every item of rolling stock or certain locomtoives can only work with certain stock. All in all, it's very frustrtating. I'm going to the Pickering exhibition today and this will either convince me I'm wasting my time or inspire me to find a solution.

 

In the meantime, our four cats are keeping their heads down!

[D9020 Nimbus]

I think part of the problem is that for the NEM close-coupling mechanisms to work correctly, they really need a pretty rigid link between the couplings--which tension-locks do not provide (hence the Roco couplings working better).

[Les Bird]

I know what you mean Dave, other people's locos seem to run ok on exactly the same Peco track and points as I use. My gripe is that only certain locos cause problems while others are as good as gold which leads me to believe that my tracklaying must be ok and that the locos must be at fault. The problems only seem to affect newer models while older versions from a variety of different manufacturers behave themselves. I was very taken with Pete Goss's loco crews at Pickering and bought a couple of packs. I suppose I'll have to persevere now or they'll have nothing to drive! That 31 is definitely going though..

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Analysing and fixing the root causes of unreliable running is just one of the attractions of the hobby for me.

 

class 30/31: unless going for the Roco or similar 'rigid bar' coupler systems, cut off the cammed mounting, make new coupler mounts on bogie or end of body

L1: convert pony truck to single pivot, it then always works as it should

Thompson coaches: cut wheelarches in floor underside to clear flanges throughout pivotting action of bogie.

 

Cannot help with the B1, faultless running in my experience (both makers current versions). Still hacked away at both of them to make them yet more to my liking, but that's the inveterate modifier in me.

[rodshaw]

Maybe some locos should be described as RTRB - ready to run badly.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Alternatively, you develop the attitude that RTR is no more than an assembled kit where most of the difficult work has been done. Job one is take it apart to some extent, and then improve it to better match the requirements of the owner.

 

And RTR remains relatively cheap compared to kit parts, especially bought s/h or as a heavily discounted poor selling version. Take apart the assembled kits and there's the feedstock for bashing into new forms.

[Kenton]

What you describe sounds more like a track problem than a loco problem. If it was just a single loco with a commonly known fault then sure reason to complain, even if it was still loco related then it is just a case of returning to point of sale. But if it is something across a range of locos of more than one manufacturer then it is nearly always track.

[Les Bird]

But if it is something across a range of locos of more than one manufacturer then it is nearly always track.

 

Only, in my case it isn't. I made the point that many locomotives from different manufacturers cause no problems. The derailing L1 is retsricted to that locomotive and is clearly related to the pony truck pivot arrangement. The other issue surrounds the coupling mounts and appears to have nothing to do with the track.

[HLT 0109]

 

 

Only, in my case it isn't. I made the point that many locomotives from different manufacturers cause no problems. The derailing L1 is retsricted to that locomotive and is clearly related to the pony truck pivot arrangement. The other issue surrounds the coupling mounts and appears to have nothing to do with the track.

Les, I do not think your evidence altogether precludes track problems. If, like me, you have tight curves and crossovers using set-track points, older stock copes satisfactorily even when small undulations in the track occur in the middle of them but, the finer tolerances of modern models makes them less sympathetic to track imperfections. It is a matter of opinion (for example) whether complicating the coupling mechanisms of coaches in order to obtain closer coupling is worth the price of less tolerant running but we are stuck with it as many modellers want it. It can make it difficult to run new stock if one's layout is well established but, if you can modify the track where the problems occur, you may find the problems disappear (except perhaps for the L1 pony truck).

 

Harold.

edited to correct typo

[Xerces Fobe2]

I hate it when locos fail last weekend at the Three Spires Show we had a track circuit failure and 3 Class 501's which had wires break on the power bogies however they were taken out of service and replaced with other units. We had an issue with DCC and one of the tube train which has got me scratching my head as it now works OK after doing very little!

 

You have to balance things out as on the plus side both all of our new items Sarah Siddons, a sound chipped Class 108, Q Stock Pilot Cars and the Battery Electric Class 501 conversion all worked well

 

Don't give if most things can be fixed fairly easily

 

XF

[Guest oldlugger]

Les don't throw in the sponge just yet! I think everyone here has periods of time like this with their railways. I've had loads. The best thing is to give it a break for a few weeks and come back when you feel ready... when the old inspiration starts flowing again. Someone once said to me; "there are no problems, only solutions" which is very true here. To my eyes your problem would be a straight forward thing to cure by a process of elimination; check each potential problem area and see if that's it, if it's not cross it off the list and try the next one. You'll find it eventually. When you work in the finer scales these sort of probs are common place and are a part of the deal; you just have to accept it and solve it. The class 31 is a known oddity; I have two that fell to bits.

 

Cheers

Simon

[HLT 0109]

To my eyes your problem would be a straight forward thing to cure by a process of elimination; check each potential problem area and see if that's it, if it's not cross it off the list and try the next one. You'll find it eventually.

The problem in my relative inexperience is that you think you have found the problem and cross it off the list only for the problem to recurr - or the cure creates another problem! It is with that fear in mind that careful thought is required before wielding the craft knife or scalpel. That's when your advice to take a break needs to be followed.

[Les Bird]

If, like me, you have tight curves and crossovers using set-track points...........

 

Harold.

edited to correct typo

 

There are no set track points, in fact outside of the hidden sidings, the points are 5' radius. I have observed the deraiing problem with the Class 31 and B1 very closely. I can vouch for the fact that the end of the coach is being lifted very slightly by the locomotive coupling. It is when moving from straight track to curved or vice-versa that the small vertical movement allows the coach wheel flanges to ride over the rail top. That is why I replaced the couplings with Roco versions which allow for a small amount of vertical movement. I have solved that particular problem by this method. Regrettably, this modification did not prevent the Class 31's chassis from falling to pieces!

 

I think this subject is probably exhausted now, I know I am!

[RJL]

I am aware of Hornby's response to the problem but, at the time, mine appeared not to be too badly affected. After the passge of time and the repairs I have already carried out, I doubt that Hornby would be willing to exchange it. In any case, I suspect that the derailment problem would perisist. It appears that the locomotive coupling (and this applies to the B1 tender too) is lifting the coach when exiting from curved track onto straight track and this causes the flanges to ride over the railhead.(By the way, I'm not using particularly sharp curves either). I know the old method of attaching couplings to the bogie rather than the vehicle chassis may not have been ideal, but at least it worked. The additional flexibility built into the coupling mounts also brings its own problems. In some instances the coupling hangs too low and fouls points and crossings. This problem seems to affect Bachmann products more than Hornby. I have partially overcome the derailing by substituting Roco couplings but this means I either have to equip every item of rolling stock or certain locomtoives can only work with certain stock. All in all, it's very frustrtating. I'm going to the Pickering exhibition today and this will either convince me I'm wasting my time or inspire me to find a solution.

 

In the meantime, our four cats are keeping their heads down!

don't be disheartend and keep being inspired.

[Platform 6]

Les had probably got over the exhaustion nearly a year ago.. hope you two don't cause a relapse! 

[rob D2]

Isn't it weird how these threads reappear from the dead......I'm guessing people aren't reading when the last post was, as I'm sure. Things have moved on after a year